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SPF Growatt 5000 ES System. Design review and suggestions

I finally got it drawn up. Here is the PV ground mount the way I plan to set it up. The only way I can think to get AC to the GW "AC in" is to add 2 new panels. One to be a new main 200A panel and the other to be solar production panel only and change my original main house panel with almost all the house circuits in it to a Sub Panel with a generator Interlock kit to prevent Grid and PV power in the same box at the same time. It would also allow me to switch back to grid only easily if needed. This seems to be the only way that I can use solar 1st then batteries 2nd then have the grid pair AC with the Inverter AC if the PV or battery can't handle the load. If the grid goes down, I would use PV then Battery then the natural gas generator as a last resort. Please look at my drawings and let me know if anything is done wrong. I do realize I don't show sharing or paralleling the inverters and the wiring is basically what is connected to what and doesn't show L1, L2 or N connections. N and grounds are bonded in the Transfer switch, the 1st box after the meter. Please comment positive or negative.
 

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Has anyone tried turning off one of the spf 5000 slave inverters to try to cut back on idle consumption?

Does the master inverter still function normally?
 
Jim Lee said:
Without knowing for sure, I think it would work minus any PV input.
Click to expand...
Thanks for weighing in.
Why do you say "minus any PV input"?

I know the lvx6048 mppt controller still works when the inverter is off.
 
self_sufficient_25 said:
Thanks for weighing in.
Why do you say "minus any PV input"?

I know the lvx6048 mppt controller still works when the inverter is off.
Click to expand...
I'm setting up 3 SPF Growatt 5000 ES which have 1 PV input per GW. I will have 1 Serial, paralleled string going to each "PV in" on each GW. If I shut it down, I would assume I would lose that string as well. Maybe your right and it wouldn't. I'm just a DIY'er. I'm definitely not positive.
 
self_sufficient_25 said:
Thanks for weighing in.
Why do you say "minus any PV input"?

I know the lvx6048 mppt controller still works when the inverter is off.
Click to expand...
Thanks, That is nice to know that if I don't need the 3rd GW for power that I could possibly turn it off and not loose any PV input and save about 70 watts/hour idle consumption. When I get mine up and running, I'll definitely try it out.
 
Jim Lee said:
Thanks, That is nice to know that if I don't need the 3rd GW for power that I could possibly turn it off and not loose any PV input and save about 70 watts/hour idle consumption. When I get mine up and running, I'll definitely try it out.
Click to expand...
Yes it seems it will on page 24 off the manual. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1715722/Growatt-Spf-5000-Es.html?page=24#manual

It says "
Note: *Standby mode: The
inverter is not turned on yet but
at this time, the inverter can
charge battery without AC
output."

But there is still no guarantee that it can be done with just one of the units in parallel.
 
I just tried turning off the slave inverter. Of my two lvx6048 units in parallel. And the master inverter functions normally. Power stays on and slave boots up and reconnects when turned back on, with out any issues.

Hopefully the growatt spf 5000 es do the same.
 
self_sufficient_25 said:
I just tried turning off the slave inverter. Of my two lvx6048 units in parallel. And the master inverter functions normally. Power stays on and slave boots up and reconnects when turned back on, with out any issues.

Hopefully the growatt spf 5000 es do the same.
Click to expand...
That sounds GREAT to me.
 
self_sufficient_25 said:
I just tried turning off the slave inverter. Of my two lvx6048 units in parallel. And the master inverter functions normally. Power stays on and slave boots up and reconnects when turned back on, with out any issues.

Hopefully the growatt spf 5000 es do the same.
Click to expand...
After I have 3 Inverters I may buy a 4th. I was planning to do that as future spare parts, but I could just hook it up and turn it off if not needed and turn it on if necessary.
 
I have been trying to get David Pos to confirm it works with his spf 5000 es inverters but I haven't gotten a response


Jim Lee said:
After I have 3 Inverters I may buy a 4th
Click to expand...
20 kw that's quite the system. ?
 
Buying it now and getting 26% paid by tax write off is better than waiting for price increases or not available and no write off later.
 
uzernaam said:
I'd like to remind everyone in this thread that if you have a breaker on your midpoint transformer and it trips, you will have a "lost" or "floating" neutral and your service panel will be feeding your 120V phases in series at 240V.

Depending on what you have running, your 120V appliances could be seeing 240V.

While not having the transformer on a breaker presents a small risk (sometimes a winding rubs through its insulation and contacts the case) a blown transformer is far cheaper to replace than half of your home's appliances going up in smoke.

I did manage to disassemble my transformer to have a look just for peace of mind.

Also, I went back-and-forth contemplating connecting the AC IN to my USA grid. Turns out you can just run the black and red hot legs to it without a problem, just use a breaker on your grid service panel to feed it.

Here's how I connected mine:
Click to expand...
This looks like a really simple way to fix the issues with grid backup on the Growatt 5000/ATF combo.
 
self_sufficient_25 said:
I just tried turning off the slave inverter. Of my two lvx6048 units in parallel. And the master inverter functions normally. Power stays on and slave boots up and reconnects when turned back on, with out any issues.

Hopefully the growatt spf 5000 es do the same.
Click to expand...
I saw on another thread it does work just like yours does.
 
Jim Lee said:
What is being said on that thread has gone in circles so many times I can't even figure out what is being said that works and what doesn't work. Unless YOU plan to personally fix the problem for the followers of that thread then a final decision of what works needs to be made and simplified so a non professional can understand how to actually apply it. Just my opinion. I just want to make a PV system that works and is simple to put together for a DIY individual.
Click to expand...
I am still waiting on a box to show up to do a full build video so people can follow along. I have been waiting for close to 3 weeks so far. You aren't wrong that the thread is a little deep for people who don't understand AC/DC circuits at technical depth. I am going as fast as I can, but the world we live in today is just moving slower.

The circuitry for the protection mechanism is really actually quite simple, but needs some explaining.
 
automatikdonn said:
Jim,
I think the answer to your question is here (the video will be done processing in about 15 minutes)
Click to expand...
Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.
 
Jim Lee said:
Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.
Click to expand...
I am planning to go all in and go all the way to 6 for my setup. I have been measuring my house for the last month or so with a sense monitor and it seems like my max usage is 31kw - so a 30KW setup should work nicely for me.
 
automatikdonn said:
Jim,
I think the answer to your question is here (the video will be done processing in about 15 minutes)
Click to expand...
I just watched your video again and realized if the unit still charges it probably still uses the idle 60 watt/hr. Oh well, I will keep thinking about it.
 
Jim Lee said:
Thanks again. If I buy 3 or 4 GW's and find I only need two to run my house I can just turn off one of the slave units and save the 60 watts per hour Idle cost and if I ever have problems with one inverter or I need more power I can just turn it on. Seems like a good Insurance policy and 26% Tax credit to help pay for it if I do it now.
Click to expand...
I am very happy so far with my units. I even wired in a circuit level transfer switch to my shop and I am testing out how well that works. After a 30-60 day test period, if all is well I will be hooking the same system up for the rest of my house. I have to pretty much rebuild my whole system because where I am going things now, I am out of space.

I will be making a build video of the whole 30KW system from start to finish.
 
Jim Lee said:
I just watched your video again and realized if the unit still charges it probably still uses the idle 60 watt/hr. Oh well, I will keep thinking about it.
Click to expand...
Most off the idle consumption is used to turn the mosfets on and off. To switch dc to ac. When the inverter is off but the mppt charge is still working it uses a little power directly from the PV and goes to sleep when there isn't any solar.

At least that's been my experience with the lvx6048.
 
Zwy said:
Rated max PV input for the GW SPF 5000ES is 5500w according to spec sheet. If you install all 30 panels, you will be over paneled. Some will tell you that isn't a problem, myself I don't like running things to the limit. But that max limit doesn't quite make sense if indeed PV OCV is rated at 450V and ISC is 100a. I'd be checking into that with Ian and do some more research.

At 30 of those panels, you will be installing as 6S5P? The reason for 6S is because 30 panels is easily divided by 6. With 6S5P, PV OCV would be 295v, ISC is 52a.

For that price per panel, you could buy something like these, you only need 22 of them for 12Kw, they are slightly longer however than a standard 72 cell module but for my MT Solar mount it still worked on a 16 cell mount after I contacted them. https://store.santansolar.com/product/new-ja-solar-530w-half-cell-mono-solar-panel/ If you went with these panels, you could go 24 panels, this allows different string configurations.

As for diagrams, there are plenty in the archives here plus Ian has some on his site https://watts247.com/ that show some general information. Each member here has their own type of setup dependent upon batteries, BMS, SCC and inverters. There is no one size fits all. Signature Solar should provide you one if you are looking to buy one of their kits.
Click to expand...
I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.
 
rick777 said:
I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.
Click to expand...
I 've gotten the same negative response from Signature Solar. They could sell $18K to $20K of solar to me based on them saying and advertise a lot of promises, but when you ask them to explain, they like to say DIY, just DIY. Their reputation is rapidly going into the toilet. So many people say "Just call Signature, they are so helpful". I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR HELPFUL SIDE YET. I'm beginning to think the ones saying that are the ones getting paid by them. I've been wanting to order from them, but their not willing to help attitude is holding me back.
 
rick777 said:
I asked Signature Solar for some help with a wiring diagram for a very similar setup to this and this was their reply:

"We do not advise on wiring in the Tech department, due to different areas requiring different configurations depending on where you live. We recommend contacting a licensed electrician before altering any Grid power sources."

I find that amazing given that this should be diagrammed in detail by them since they are promoting the use of the Growatt 5K ES with the SolarEdge transformer and their lithium batteries. Great on paper, but without some instructions on how to set up the entire system, too risky for me to take on. I'm not even comfortable hiring an electrician. How do I know they know all the system implications to get this "right"? I would actually gladly pay Signature Solar for a couple of hours of consulting time and a wiring diagram. This response was received after trying to get any response from their tech department for over 2 weeks, btw.
Click to expand...
I find there are better choices out there for inverters other than the GW 5K ES with SolarEdge transformer.

To each their own but there are choices which are easy to setup and wire.
 
Zwy said:
I find there are better choices out there for inverters other than the GW 5K ES with SolarEdge transformer.

To each their own but there are choices which are easy to setup and wire.
Click to expand...
Depending on the end goals this is true to an extent. I find the GW5KES system to scale very well and the auto transformer setup is also scalable.

There are probably easier systems to work with.. but not many at this price point. If you want to spend the $$$ there is a lot out there.
 
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