diy solar

diy solar

Safe Grid Use of the 5000ES and transformer

Signature Solar said:
Basically, if you get the $1250 inverter and transformer, and then decide to add 3 tons of AC you can do that with this system for only $900, and no combiner box, the way I see the same situation with MPP that'll be another $1599 (+600) and 2x comnbiner boxes @$130 ($260) and the wiring/ labor extra (let's just say $200 to be nice)

That adds up to an extra $1060 to run your whole house of Air conditioners
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Gibberish.

You are comparing one 5000ES with 2 LV6548's. Are you kidding me? The output with the 2 LV6548's is almost 3 times the output of the 5000ES.

Do you want to compare PV input wattage? 6000W per 5000ES, 8000W for one LV6548. That's 16Kw of PV input for the 2 LV6548's. You are promoting a toy and comparing it to a system much larger.

Combiner box on LV6548? For what? It has two 4000w PV inputs, no need for a combiner box, one of the reasons I purchased the LV6548.

Signature Solar said:
If you further exceed 13kw the MPP system kind of forces you into buying 2 more or settling for imbalanced lines, ok with 120v expansion, not so good for 240v, the Growatt gig is a linear $900 for the heavy loads
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The one 5000ES isn't close to 13Kw........again, gibberish.

Signature Solar said:
The quality on the MPP seems to be good, you can see a lot of the same components in them vs Growatt but low voltage solar input and the extra mark-up they charge is the drag on value.

If you've got the money and just like a brand then grab what you want, our general agenda is to find solutions that pust the value prop of solar in a more affordable direction
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I did and I'm very happy I didn't get into this nightmare.

Do the right thing, offer customers the opportunity to return the 5000ES they purchased from you for full purchase price if they want to return it. It shouldn't matter how long ago either.
 
Zwy said:
Gibberish.

You are comparing one 5000ES with 2 LV6548's. Are you kidding me? The output with the 2 LV6548's is almost 3 times the output of the 5000ES.

Do you want to compare PV input wattage? 6000W per 5000ES, 8000W for one LV6548. That's 16Kw of PV input for the 2 LV6548's. You are promoting a toy and comparing it to a system much larger.

Combiner box on LV6548? For what? It has two 4000w PV inputs, no need for a combiner box, one of the reasons I purchased the LV6548.


The one 5000ES isn't close to 13Kw........again, gibberish.


I did and I'm very happy I didn't get into this nightmare.

Do the right thing, offer customers the opportunity to return the 5000ES they purchased from you for full purchase price if they want to return it. It shouldn't matter how long ago either.
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check your math here. 2x 5000es vs 2x mpp6548 you could do 3x5000es, but that has more balance and is more powerful than 2x 6548 without the combiners. we know the MPP tech well, mostly the same components as growatt, we have their whole line on our bench for tinkering

this "nightmare" involves many very enthusiastic customers. business advice unneeded
 
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I
Signature Solar said:
The "recirculating current issue" is not material to any of the other major transformer-based hybrid inverter brands like Delta, Qcells and solaredge.

If you had current issues, you would have a defective transformer, if you still want to make your defective transformer work (not advised) then you could make your grid input grounded like you would a standby generator and the main house ground would be based on the off grid system
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I don't think you understand the issue I was referring too. It has nothing to do with defective transformers.

The issue is using a Autotransformer with 240AC Non Split phase inverters "like the Growatt 5000ES" while they are in Grid Pass Thru. That effective puts the autotransformer in a position that it tries to balance everything all the way to the utility transformer "THRU THE COMMON GROUND"..... Only an issue when hooked to the Grid......
 
Mr-Sandman said:
I

I don't think you understand the issue I was referring too. It has nothing to do with defective transformers.

The issue is using a Autotransformer with 240AC Non Split phase inverters "like the Growatt 5000ES" while they are in Grid Pass Thru. That effective puts the autotransformer in a position that it tries to balance everything all the way to the utility transformer "THRU THE COMMON GROUND"..... Only an issue when hooked to the Grid......
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now being permitted in cali

1643330530541.png
 
Signature Solar said:
now being permitted in cali

View attachment 81515
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OK, what does this have to do with the Growatt 5000ES?

That diagram shows an inverter that PASSES the Neutral to the load panel thru the inverter. The Growatt 5000ES does NOT pass Neutral from the Main panel. I'm not sure what your trying to tell us, with a drawing that doesn't match the discussion....
 
I bought 2 5000ES with the Solar Edge AutoTfransformer from SS. Back in June. I was concerned about using the Auto Tran to develop the Neutral and this would interact with the mains neutral so I did real world testing prior to going on line . It has all been working fine as expected. Signature solar was very helpful during my research . I am happy with the results .
 
dvsdirect said:
I bought 2 5000ES with the Solar Edge AutoTfransformer from SS. Back in June. I was concerned about using the Auto Tran to develop the Neutral and this would interact with the mains neutral so I did real world testing prior to going on line . It has all been working fine as expected. Signature solar was very helpful during my research . I am happy with the results .
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Do you have the Neutral bonded to Ground in your Inverter Loads Panel?

Do you have a common ground between your Inverter Loads Panel and Main Panel?

Have you measured for current on the ground wire going to your inverter load panel, in Grid Pass Thru mode while you was doing "real world testing"?
 
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Ok I am confused at what I am seeing. Can Signature Solar post a close up of the hole?
When I run it through Photoshop and zoom in and then run a red filter on the image to remove what looks like a red marker stain on the hole I get this.
Growatt_PCB_Filtered.png

A better image would be really helpful.
 
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Signature Solar said:
Basically, if you get the $1250 inverter and transformer, and then decide to add 3 tons of AC you can do that with this system for only $900, and no combiner box, the way I see the same situation with MPP that'll be another $1599 (+600) and 2x comnbiner boxes @$130 ($260) and the wiring/ labor extra (let's just say $200 to be nice)

That adds up to an extra $1060 to run your whole house of Air conditioners

If you further exceed 13kw the MPP system kind of forces you into buying 2 more or settling for imbalanced lines, ok with 120v expansion, not so good for 240v, the Growatt gig is a linear $900 for the heavy loads

The quality on the MPP seems to be good, you can see a lot of the same components in them vs Growatt but low voltage solar input and the extra mark-up they charge is the drag on value.

If you've got the money and just like a brand then grab what you want, our general agenda is to find solutions that pust the value prop of solar in a more affordable direction
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Are you buying back the units we purchased? I will gladly spend more money in the name of safety, I won't need AC if I am dead.
 
PeteB said:
Why would they buy them back when they just explained that they are and always were safe? The PCB is not electrically connecting the G and N. The screw is now just a PCB mounting screw. Signature Solar requested this from the manufacturer before they imported the Growatt 5000ES (US). If you bought them from Signature Solar they are Safe. If you bought them from someone overseas and had them drop shipped, send them back.
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Well for 1 the video did not demonstraight how to properly deal with a loss of N, just a weak OCP demo.
 
Alright I think I'm a bit late to this but I'll just leave a diagram and explanation because really a lot of the things that have been said here are very confusing if not completely wrong, even the diagrams provided by signature solar don't explain it.

If you have a 230V inverter with a N to G bond, the first thing you will have to do is remove the N to G bond, once you do that verify with a volt meter that is the case since sometimes there are extra connections thru the PCB screw mounts to case, etc, etc. There should be no continuity between N and GND.

Once the bond is gone, you will use an auto transformer and the center of the transformer will be your neutral.

That will go to your main panel, which already has the Neutral to grounding electrode conductor bond and also the bond to the equipment grounding conductors (what people commonly call the ground wire).

Do not add another ground rod, unless the system has never had it, there is one ground rod already connected to your panel or similar means.

Edit: There's an error in my diagram, GND-OUT from inverter has to go to EGC from panel, it is fixed now.

1643347081357.png
 
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I just watched the Signature Solar video and wow the Irony!!!
One major point that he kept on repeating was you need to balance the heavy 120V loads if your going to use an Autotransformer with the Growatt.

Ironic because when David Poz was tripping a Sol-Ark 12k with heavy 120V unbalanced loads it was just a great demonstration According to SS of an off grid situation but now that the shoe is on the other foot the Balancing of heavy loads becomes important. :rolleyes:
 
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robby said:
I just watched the SS video and wow the Irony.
One major point that he kept on repeating was you need to balance the heavy 120V loads if your going to use an Autotransformer with the Growatt.
Ironic because when David Poz was tripping a Sol-Ark 12k with heavy 120V unbalanced loads it was just a great demonstration of an off grid situation but now that the shoe is on the other foot the Balancing of heavy loads becomes important. :rolleyes:
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That's one thing that originally sold me about the LV6548 pair, is each inverter is handling a leg completely on its own. One question I had asked the MPP sales rep before I had bought them was how does LV6548 handle imbalanced loads, and they said imbalanced loads not an issue for the LV6548. One inverter is doing +120v while the other inverter is doing -120v (alternating), which also happens to make the 240v across the hots, so there is no center tap transformer...
 
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Samsonite801 said:
That's one thing that originally sold me about the LV6548 pair, is each inverter is handling a leg completely on its own. One question I had asked the MPP sales rep before I had bought them was how does LV6548 handle imbalanced loads and they said imbalanced loads not an issue for the LV6548...
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yeah you have 6.5kw per leg, its nice.

Did you get yours from watts247 or peggy directly?
 
Samsonite801 said:
That's one thing that originally sold me about the LV6548 pair, is each inverter is handling a leg completely on its own. One question I had asked the MPP sales rep before I had bought them was how does LV6548 handle imbalanced loads and they said imbalanced loads not an issue for the LV6548 (one inverter is doing +120v while the other inverter is doing -120v, which also happens to make the 240v across the hots)...
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Its a good Inverter but I think that sales rep was not well informed.
If the loads get too high on one leg you will start to have a lot of sag and distortion on that leg compared to the other. They could ignore it in the design but the safe thing to do is shut it down before something gets damaged.
I suspect that the MPP will also shutdown but I don't have one to test that out on.
 
hipringles said:
yeah you have 6.5kw per leg, its nice.

Did you get yours from watts247 or peggy directly?
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I purchased mine from Peggy directly (last year). The other day a friend of mine tried the same and Peggy said to go through watts247.com, so perhaps they're phasing them into becoming a more main US distributor...
 
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robby said:
Its a good Inverter but I think that sales rep was not well informed.
If the loads get too high on one leg you will start to have a lot of sag and distortion on that leg compared to the other. They could ignore it in the design but the safe thing to do is shut it down before something gets damaged.
I suspect that the MPP will also shutdown but I don't have one to test that out on.
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Yeah true, I'm sure probably if overloaded, it should shut down as one might expect (exceed 6500w beyond the surge time), and you would lose one leg for sure, and my thought (I haven't tested it yet), is that the other leg would stay online and still provide at least the 120v on that leg.

However, if the leg that tripped, was the 'master' providing the clock signal on the sync cable, not sure how it would react (if the clock would stay ticking for the other inverter, or if it just takes them both offline)...

Maybe Will could do some failover testing on his setup (or anyone else with the LV6548s)... I am still aways away from getting mine installed yet, need to finish getting my structures completed first, so I cannot install mine for awhile yet.

I think if I got to a point where I was close to the limit and tripping legs, I would just add in 2 more to have 4 stacked (2x per leg topology)...
 
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Samsonite801 said:
I purchased mine from Peggy directly (last year). The other day a friend of mine tried the same and Peggy said to go through watts247.com, so perhaps they're phasing into becoming a more main US distributor...
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I have an invoice from Peggy yesterday, debating going between her and 247, but Peggy is much cheaper so I figured i'd just go through her directly if others have good expierences
 
hipringles said:
I have an invoice from Peggy yesterday, debating going between her and 247, but Peggy is much cheaper so I figured i'd just go through her directly if others have good expierences
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I guess you could find out if lead time is any different between them...

I know they're starting into their holiday in China and Taiwan for a week, so that will slow everything down by one week. Not sure if watts247 has any in stock, you might ask them how far out theirs are.
 
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Samsonite801 said:
I know they're starting into their holiday in China and Taiwan for a week, so that will slow everything down by one week. Not sure if watts247 has any in stock, you might ask them how far out theirs are.
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yeah W247 eta was "hopefully be end of feb" vs "15-20 days" for Peggy. Im going to just give Peggy the shot, its 500$ less for 2 inverter
 
PeteB said:
I just opened up one of Signature Solar's 5000ES (US) and the (former) bond screw is in place but there is no continuity to neutral. The only thing it has continuity to is the case as do any other of the PCB to case mounting screws. The bottom PCB main board is on stand-offs about 1/4" to 3/8" above the metal case. The PCB must have been redesigned to remove the traces between the neutral and the ground on the PCB. I'm not going to tear the whole thing down to remove the board because I had to take the inverter out of service to have a look and don't want to F it up since I use it daily.
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Thank you for the info. It was confusing because SS told Will that if the screw is in place, it will deform the metal:
Will Prowse said:
I was told by ss that the screw deforms the metal if it is ever used. I don't have a picture and I have never seen this hole, but they said over the phone that it is not as safe to use as one that never had the screw inserted at all.
 
PeteB said:
Why would they buy them back when they just explained that they are and always were safe? The PCB is not electrically connecting the G and N. The screw is now just a PCB mounting screw. Signature Solar requested this from the manufacturer before they imported the Growatt 5000ES (US). If you bought them from Signature Solar they are Safe. If you bought them from someone overseas and had them drop shipped, send them back.
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I deleted the post after watching the SS vid but long story short they sold me a modified unit without telling me, not to mention the change in design/diagrams that has happened recently/is still happening, and the possible issue with auto-transformers.

The updated video from SS does make me feel better, and more importantly the user Brightside posting pics of his unit confirming what has been discussed. I will continue to monitor the situation.
 
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PeteB said:
I just opened up one of Signature Solar's 5000ES (US) and the (former) bond screw is in place but there is no continuity to neutral. The only thing it has continuity to is the case as do any other of the PCB to case mounting screws. The bottom PCB main board is on stand-offs about 1/4" to 3/8" above the metal case. The PCB must have been redesigned to remove the traces between the neutral and the ground on the PCB. I'm not going to tear the whole thing down to remove the board because I had to take the inverter out of service to have a look and don't want to F it up since I use it daily.
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I believe you, but while you have it apart grab some pics/quick vid.
 
Samsonite801 said:
Yeah true, I'm sure probably if overloaded, it should shut down as one might expect (exceed 6500w beyond the surge time), and you would lose one leg for sure, and my thought (I haven't tested it yet), is that the other leg would stay online and still provide at least the 120v on that leg.

However, if the leg that tripped, was the 'master' providing the clock signal on the sync cable, not sure how it would react (if the clock would stay ticking for the other inverter, or if it just takes them both offline)...

Maybe Will could do some failover testing on his setup (or anyone else with the LV6548s)... I am still aways away from getting mine installed yet, need to finish getting my structures completed first, so I cannot install mine for awhile yet.

I think if I got to a point where I was close to the limit and tripping legs, I would just add in 2 more to have 4 stacked (2x per leg topology)...
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I would hope it takes both offline or your 240v appliances are probably not going to be happy ?
 
limey44460 said:
Why would anyone want to connect their solar to the grid ? it defeats the whole purpose .
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Because some off-grid (with grid support) inverters can mix utility power and solar power together.
So if you have 4 kW load (like charge an EV) and your PV produces 3 kW then you use only 1kW from utility.
And all this without a battery. Or a small one only for UPS (not cycled daily).
 
Signature Solar said:
check your math here. 2x 5000es vs 2x mpp6548 you could do 3x5000es, but that has more balance and is more powerful than 2x 6548 without the combiners. we know the MPP tech well, mostly the same components as growatt, we have their whole line on our bench for tinkering
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You keep changing things as we go, it's been this way since the start. Now it's 3 x 5000ES to try to keep up, before it was 2.
Signature Solar said:
this "nightmare" involves many very enthusiastic customers. business advice unneeded
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I've owned my successful business 35 years as of Jan 1st. You on the other hand started in 2018 (3 years and 10 months to be exact) and have much to learn. There have now been so many threads in this forum where it is shown that Signature Solar is a 2nd rate company with the customer service and technical advice the company provides.

I've provided advice from an advantage of running a business for that long and the wisdom gained from it. If you wish to learn lessons about running a business the hard way, well, you're doing a great job. Keep up the good work.
 
You probably wonder why I've called this meeting @Will Prowse @Hedge @Signature Solar

Harmonics

I'm no engineer but before retiring back in ott9 we began to install systems with upgraded transformers and oversized neutrals due to the negative affect the harmonics of traditional systems were havimg on modern electronics. I'm actually surprised this hasn't been a conversation by those here already. On the other hand the vast majority of the folks here are looking for direction and when told they can pick up a neutral off a single winding source and be good to go, from the advice of purported EEs and electronic designers.

Like I said, I'm no engineer. I was the installer that had to meet or exceed code and pass inspection on engineered systems. I remember the first time I encountered this back in ott4. It actually began to be a problem when fluorescent lighting went to electronic ballasts and commercial buildings began up-sizing the neutrals.
That's why when I saw auto transformers being hoisted as a viable solution for DIYers I took notice.

How 'bout you EE types 'splain this to the unwashed masses? Including myself, since I'm just the installer.
 
I'll start it off.

Reference to sizing the neutral conductor in case of non-sinusoidal currents can be found in IEC 60364-5-524. Clause 524.2 indicates that the neutral conductor shall have at least the same section as the phase conductors:


  • in two-conductor single-phase circuits and for all conductor cross-sections
  • in multi-phase circuits and in three conductor single-phase1 circuits when the cross-section of the phase conductors is equal to or less than 16 mm2 for copper or 25 mm2 for aluminium.

Guidance from the Standard​

The functioning of an electrical component or conductor can be significantly influenced by disturbances to the system, the supply, or the load. Of all of the electromagnetic disturbances that affect energy cables, the presence of current harmonics is one of the most important. The effects of this phenomenon can lead to overload of both phase and neutral conductors. Here, attention is focused on the sizing of the neutral conductor.

It should be noted that the current rating tables given in the Standard make many assumptions and it is the responsibility of the designer to recognise when these assumptions are not valid and make appropriate corrections. The most important assumption is that, in a four or five core cable, only three cores carry current; in other words, the load is assumed to be balanced and linear. In the situation where the load is unbalanced but linear the unbalance current flows in the neutral, but is offset by the fact that at least one phase conductor is carrying less load. Assuming that no phase conductor is overloaded, the total Joule loss in the cable is not excessive. When the load is non-linear there is a neutral current contributing to thermal loss as well as the full effect of the three line currents...
 
But if we’re looking off grid 50% of the issues go away. Mind you there are still issues but most can be engineered not to go away but to have a safe system. That’s what this whole discussion here has been about even though it has gone off topic like the movie “UP”. —- “squirrel “.
 
rfbuehler said:
But if we’re looking off grid 50% of the issues go away. Mind you there are still issues but most can be engineered not to go away but to have a safe system. That’s what this whole discussion here has been about even though it has gone off topic like the movie “UP”. —- “squirrel “.
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Which 50% would that be?
 
rfbuehler said:
But if we’re looking off grid 50% of the issues go away. Mind you there are still issues but most can be engineered not to go away but to have a safe system. That’s what this whole discussion here has been about even though it has gone off topic like the movie “UP”. —- “squirrel “.
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In my opinion staying off grid is not a solution when one spent their money on these units expecting to utilize the grid, I could have gone another direction why did I buy a unit some are saying not to connect to the grid due to safety concerns? I live in Mexico at the beach, and even there I will have 4-10 days straight without sun a couple times a year when the hurricanes roll by so not connecting to the grid does not make any sense in my scenario.

Now the modified PCB is A VERY DIFFERENT SCENARIO to me than a screw removal which is what SS originally told us had happened. So while I am still deciding if I will tie to the grid, I feel much better about the situation. I suspect SS had no idea what Growatt did and got lucky when they went into the unit and saw that Growatt did it properly. If they had known this they would have said it, and telling us the board had been modified 2 weeks ago would have made 90% of the people feel much better about things, but instead they helped spread rumors of a screw removal. Even SS says the screw removal method is unsafe, so no one here was overreacting.

edit: SS has clarified that when the say the "screw was removed", they actually mean it was "deleted from the design", there was no physical removal of a screw from the actual units, which personally alleviates that concern.
 
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robby said:
Ok I am confused at what I am seeing. Can Signature Solar post a close up of the hole?
When I run it through Photoshop and zoom in and then run a red filter on the image to remove what looks like a red marker stain on the hole I get this.
View attachment 81526

A better image would be really helpful.
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I looked at that portion of the video, certainly was edited to not get a close picture of the board and didn't include any reference or photo of how this board attaches to the case, nor whether there is standoff still on the case.

I'd buy one from SS just to tear it down but I'll wager I'm not on their Christmas list........ rather a different kind of list.
 
Zwy said:
I looked at that portion of the video, certainly was edited to not get a close picture of the board and didn't include any reference or photo of how this board attaches to the case, nor whether there is standoff still on the case.

I'd buy one from SS just to tear it down but I'll wager I'm not on their Christmas list........ rather a different kind of list.
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Perhaps if you and other people commenting in this thread were here to be helpful to the community and not simply trying to nit pick anything you can find to say bad, you (and others) wouldn't be on that "list."

The fact remains that there is a manufacturing difference in the unit that SS sells to make sure there is no N-G bond. Why are you the self appointed police of what they did to accomplish that. You got your picture of the spot (it's now posted in message #1), but some of you are here simply to toll/bash. No useful content.

We get it... There are things that make the SPF5000 not "ideal." Why you constantly feel the need to diminish it and SS are beyond me. Perhaps just compensating for something.

edit: Code of conduct quote -
  • Be civil. If multiple members complain about disruptive behavior of a member, they will be banned. Be respectful to others, and treat others how you would like to be treated.
 
Struc said:
Perhaps if you and other people commenting in this thread were here to be helpful to the community and not simply trying to nit pick anything you can find to say bad, you (and others) wouldn't be on that "list."

The fact remains that there is a manufacturing difference in the unit that SS sells to make sure there is no N-G bond. Why are you the self appointed police of what they did to accomplish that. You got your picture of the spot (it's now posted in message #1), but some of you are here simply to toll/bash. No useful content.

We get it... There are things that make the SPF5000 not "ideal." Why you constantly feel the need to diminish it and SS are beyond me. Perhaps just compensating for something.

edit: Code of conduct quote -
  • Be civil. If multiple members complain about disruptive behavior of a member, they will be banned. Be respectful to others, and treat others how you would like to be treated.
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Ok, show the photos of what many have asked for. Complete and honest discovery. Answer any questions. I haven't seen that here.

If you want to be cheerleader, go ahead and do it. But not answering questions both safety and technical in nature is not the way.
 
robby said:
I would hope it takes both offline or your 240v appliances are probably not going to be happy ?
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My theory is that 240v appliances would simply turn off if one leg was lost (since the circuit would just go open)... Maybe on a dryer where there is the fan running on 120v, the fan might stay running (if on the surviving leg), but the 240v heater element should just simply go open and lose heat. I am doubting it would hurt anything 240v, they would just shut off altogether. It's not like 3-phase where motors 'let the smoke out' when you lose a leg...
 
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While not disputing the fact that many European-market Growatt SPF-5000 ES found their way into the North American off-grid market via Chinese drop-shippers, hence creating safety issues due to internally-bonded circuitry, you should note that Growatt designed and launched a full range of NEC/CEC-compliant off-grid and hybrid grid-tie inverters in 2020/21. Yes, naming these North American models more clearly (i.e SPF-5000 US in lieu of SPF-5000 ES) in documentation needs to be addressed ASAP, so that customers don't unwittingly buy the Euro-spec product. But customers need to bear some responsibility especially for insurance purposes to verify they are installing ULC-certified NEC/CEC-compliant components, which the Euro-spec units are not. Growatt has selected Microgreen Solar (our company) in Canada and Signature Solar in USA as authorized dealers, and these sources can guarantee that a Growatt customer will be getting ULC-certified NA units (not offshore product) in addition to providing the service/warranty obligations that Growatt stipulates for Canada/USA. I would also comment that many US customers seem to have grid-tied their SPF off-grid units, and there may be better Growatt grid-tie hybrid inverters (XH and SPH lines are certified for North America) that are ideally suited to serve a grid-tie system requiring battery backup. Getting back to reality, the NEC/CEC-compliant Growatt units that Microgreen distributes in Canada have NO safety issues, as some might take away from reading this forum.
 
Zwy said:
Ok, show the photos of what many have asked for. Complete and honest discovery. Answer any questions. I haven't seen that here.

If you want to be cheerleader, go ahead and do it. But not answering questions both safety and technical in nature is not the way.
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Yes sir, self appointed inverter policeman who doesn't even own one of these and does not have any stake in this discussion other than to bash.. Your wish is.... Wait. Oh, there is not an inverter police force?

It was explained already that the PCB does not ground or tie neutral to ground at that screw. I believe somebody else mentioned the screw is still there and is simply a mounting point for the PCB now, NOT connecting the case electronically in any way, which was pointed out in the video. Please spend your time doing something useful.

For the record, I'm not being a cheerleader. I'm simply sick and tired of the NON-owners of these things blowing up this thread with useless gibberish. This thread is meant to be useful for people who actually own the unit and want to learn something USEFUL. Feel free to go start a thread bashing it in some other inverter review section, or better yet, yell at a mirror - that person might care about what you say.
 
lucariffer said:
While not disputing the fact that many European-market Growatt SPF-5000 ES found their way into the North American off-grid market via Chinese drop-shippers, hence creating safety issues due to internally-bonded circuitry, you should note that Growatt designed and launched a full range of NEC/CEC-compliant off-grid and hybrid grid-tie inverters in 2020/21. Yes, naming these North American models more clearly (i.e SPF-5000 US in lieu of SPF-5000 ES) in documentation needs to be addressed ASAP, so that customers don't unwittingly buy the Euro-spec product. But customers need to bear some responsibility especially for insurance purposes to verify they are installing ULC-certified NEC/CEC-compliant components, which the Euro-spec units are not. Growatt has selected Microgreen Solar (our company) in Canada and Signature Solar in USA as authorized dealers, and these sources can guarantee that a Growatt customer will be getting ULC-certified NA units (not offshore product) in addition to providing the service/warranty obligations that Growatt stipulates for Canada/USA. I would also comment that many US customers seem to have grid-tied their SPF off-grid units, and there may be better Growatt grid-tie hybrid inverters (XH and SPH lines are certified for North America) that are ideally suited to serve a grid-tie system requiring battery backup. Getting back to reality, the NEC/CEC-compliant Growatt units that Microgreen distributes in Canada have NO safety issues, as some might take away from reading this forum.
Click to expand...
I have not seen anything yet to indicate that UL has seen any testing results done by SS or Microgreen or any other. Changing the label doesn't count. I haven't looked into it but back in the day my friends from the north always commented how lax our code was down here. In the U.S. if you go looking for ULC you might find someone of questionable intent but no legit testing at Universal Life Church. NEC doesn't recognize them as testers at least, they don't even test when passing out ordinations. Got $5?
 
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