Has anyone else realized how far we are away from running civilization fully on wind and solar?

Admin pls check this I want to adhere to rules.
BUT. Has anyone else realized how far we are away from running society on wind and solar? We are here in this group talking about how to squeeze out a few watts to add a refrigerator to a 5kw - 20kw home system, and we, as a nation (US), are being told that we can go green in time to not crash and burn even if “they” cut off fossil fuels. I get that the average joe/josephene doesn’t know that hooking up a tesla car to your rig is like adding a second battery bank that must be charged from the same hours of sunlight that couldn’t quite keep your home as well powered as by utility power...... I was thinking that since we solar peeps know a little more we could educate our friends before it gets to be too late. I think we‘ re years away yet from being fossil fuel independent, yet still functional. as great as that will be someday. Any Thoughts?

We could just build small nuclear plants with the new technologies and we could have abundant, cheap and relatively “clean” energy.

We will get there. But the government is forcing it too fast. Shutting down fossil fuel production, before alternative sources are in place. This is why many regions have been seeing widespread outages.

That's what happens when politicians who are not scientists or engineers (and likely controlled by some sort of special interest group or their own greed) start making sweeping decisions for you.

"You must do X now!"
"But that isn't physically possible, at least not with current tech..?"
"TOO BAD! We wrote the laws! Now do it! Redefine the laws of physics if you need to!"
"...What?"
"SHUT DOWN your existing stuff NOW."
"But we don't have anything good enough to replace it...."
"TOO BAD. Do it or DIE. Oh you're gonna die if you do it? Well too bad, we don't like you anyway!"
"......"

Stupid politicians.

I try to educate people about power whenever I can without being boorish or annoying. It is a up hill battle though since there is so much mythology and misinformation out there. It is like trying to educate people about where food comes from (the grocery store Dummy!).

It’s always going to be a portfolio of generation.

e.g.:

According to the Electric Reliability Council of Texas(ERCOT), wind power accounted for at least 15.7% of the electricity generated in Texas during 2017, as wind was 17.4% of electricity generated in ERCOT, which manages 90% of Texas's power.[4][5]ERCOT set a new wind output record of nearly 19.7 GW at 7:19 pm Central Standard Time on Monday, January 21, 2019.[6]

I think a huge problem is large solar contractors using predatory sales and finance tactics to get people locked in to worthless contracts that will never have an ROI which is giving solar a very very bad reputation.

additionally, we need advisors in politics that actually have the best interest of our energy platform in mind who are actually experts in energy management. even stupid ole me has enough common sense to know what were doing and how we're doing it is not sustainable or even remotely realistic.

These are great replies. I was reading about how an uncomfortably large group think electric cars run on "magic".

Lol, its as if you think those in charge actually care...

You think for a second our glorious leaders don't hold shares in big oil and gas... that they didn't just profit from collosal returns over the last reporting period...?

That they are not right now enjoying making more money per barrel of oil they sell than they probably have ever done...?

If they actually gave a shit they'd have forced big oil and gas to properly invest some of their decades of ginormous profits into greener fuels.

We wouldn't be sitting here discussing what tax rebates we can claim but how our grants and or green schemes we sticking solar on each and everyone's house to take the burden off the grid.

How all new social housing would be solar or hydrothermal self sufficient....

People are still making huge profits and that won't change.... ever. Only thing we can do is try to beat the system a little by not giving them anything more than we have to.

Man I am synacle...

... from getting back to running society on wind and solar.
Maybe if not so many people, and a slower pace of life.

Start with voting for people who admit that global warming is real versus people who do not believe in it or are profiting in the short term in opposing it.

It is interesting at time how much market manipulation the average person encounters. There is a recent news account of how Proctor and Gamble is manipulating costs of products, and when they time incentives such as coupons or price reductions, to keep the sales of premium products up. They raise the price of cheaper brands they have while keeping premium brands the same. Or they reduce the amount of product in the package to keep the price looking the same. They even try to merchandise some brands based on when the average person gets paid each month.

Practically nothing is what it seems. You always have to look behind the curtain.

peakbagger said:

Start with voting for people who admit that global warming is real versus people who do not believe in it or are profiting in the short term in opposing it.

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Global warming, whether real or not, does not change power numbers. If you need "X" amount of power it has to come from somewhere. Just waving your hand and saying use alternative energy does not answer the math.

kanelr said:

I think we‘ re years away yet from being fossil fuel independent, yet still functional. as great as that will be someday. Any Thoughts?

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At the current speed it won't happen on our lifetime.

You may not need "X" amount of power. Sure, it is useful to make paradise of of desert, but that is something which was done only because energy is cheap.



As for global warming, are we really so concerned that man-made sea level rise might reach 1% additional on top of what has occurred since the end of the last ice age?

MattiFin said:

At the current speed it won't happen on our lifetime.

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at this point, with current proven technologies, it will not happen. we need breakthroughs in PV collection and energy storage for EVs to replace fossil fuel vehicles

try moving any meaningful amount of goods without fossil fuel

The transition to renewable energy like solar, and wind runs in lockstep with the technological advancement, and cost.

We've already started the transition, how long will it take from here? I dunno, but I'd bet it'll be parabolic.

x98myers7 said:

try moving any meaningful amount of goods without fossil fuel

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Try electrified train network like rest of the civilized world outside of US

Hedges said:

You may not need "X" amount of power.

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When I said need it is simply what people are using. Making people to use less comes with it a whole lot of problems. Not everyone wants to live to someone else's notions of what is good for them. Even if it is to "Save the Planet".

MattiFin said:

Try electrified train network like rest of the civilized world outside of US

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that would require massive infrastructure investment to get the power down those rails. not to mention, just about every rail system in the US has been neglected. agree it's a viable option, but again... no political will to invest in it.

in MI we just had the Palisades nuclear plant shutdown. that single plant generated more electricity than all the renewables in MI combined. what a joke. it has been running flawlessly since the 1970s. absolutely travesty of energy management.

Bluedog225 said:

It’s always going to be a portfolio of generation.

e.g.:

According to the Electric Reliability Council of Texas(ERCOT), wind power accounted for at least 15.7% of the electricity generated in Texas during 2017, as wind was 17.4% of electricity generated in ERCOT, which manages 90% of Texas's power.[4][5]ERCOT set a new wind output record of nearly 19.7 GW at 7:19 pm Central Standard Time on Monday, January 21, 2019.[6]

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Yeah, and look at the huge problems Texas has from those windmills now.

On a related note I just recently heard this term for the first time. Subconsciously I knew it existed but seeing the actual day was a real punch in the gut.

July 28 will be Earth Overshoot Day in 2022
Marks the date when humanity has used all the biological resources that Earth regenerates during the entire year.

We have about 3 decades to go to 0%, that's about 3% per year rather than 2%, and lately growth has been flat. So, doesn't seem that bad to me.

Of course, the more people act stupidly and actively fight against the goal then sure, it could be a problem. For example, the republicans recently passed a bill in Florida (HR 741) that would have devasted the last decade's solar industry growth in the state. The bill was at the behest of the power utility, the vote was by party line and as the Republicans had the majority it passed. There was no proof of any benefit to passing it, from where I sit it looked like they did it because they were told to do it.

I just happen to be a Republican, so I was very disappointed that my party would do such a thing to hurt so many businesses, destroy built up infrastructure, and set the state back wasting millions of tax-payer dollars. It's honestly not what the Republican party is about, not even close. Fortunately, the Governor (also a Republican) rose above petty politics and vetoed it. As much as it pains me, I'll vote democrat before I vote for the same guy (house)/gal (senate) I did last time since both broke their campaign promise.


Most likely homeowners will favor EVs and those without easy charging access will prefer GreenICE. Those companies are also aggressively pursuing Carbon capture technologies, so they also expect to be net-zero while still supplying fossil fuels.

If 50% of the cars are EVs, then that's 14% of the transportation sector, or an additional 0.3% growth of electricity needed, or 1.3% beyond what we've historically accomplished. So, seems doable to me.

Plain and simple.
If it's drastically cheaper, and well published as such.
Everyone will be rushing to jump on board.

SparkyJJO said:

Yeah, and look at the huge problems Texas has from those windmills now.

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There is also a huge problem that the utility companies have with individuals supplying grid tied solar. Although the grid might appear to be a great way for an individual to store the solar power they generate to use later the grid is not a battery. It can and does get destabilized by being supplied power that is highly variable and perhaps in excess to loading. Concepts of Base load, and Peak loading have to be kept in mind.