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WWWS (what would Will Say) EG4 vs SOK server rack battery

SignatureSolarJames said:
EG4 is 2 product lines:

-LifePower4
This is the value version, 30kwh =$8999
-the same 7000 cycles @80% DOD @5hour discharge rate,
-the same 200W pre charge capacitor for starting heavy inverters
-the BMS comms with Growatt (Others being vetted for full compatibility assurance)
-5 year warranty assures no-lemon experience on packs, our almost 40,000 pack experience has validated our quality build on the BMS and internal components.
-EG4LL
This takes a Pro approach to compare with older brands of lifepo4 30kwh =$10494
-7000 cycles @80% DOD @5hour discharge rate,
-the BMS comms with Growatt (Others being vetted for full compatibility assurance)
-200W pre charge capacitor for starting heavy inverters
-10 year warranty backed and based out of Texas with a full time staff and shop that you can call any day of the week 8-5

There are very little differences in the quality of build or frankly any attribute of the SOK vs our packs, this gear was out there, we vetted it and brought it to market to better serve our clients.
The one difference we see in the SOK is the bolting of cells, we have been down this road but as we scaled we had the factories adjust to welded connections because the reliability of resistance is superior to a bolted connection over the lifecycle in many environments that do not have perfect climate regulation, Welded connections also allow for use in RV and transport because vibrations were too risky for bolted cells.
the last bolted EG4s shipped in early 2021, we have been lucky overall so far but determined the welded assembly change was going to make sense over time as we service the warranty.

-With the LifePower4 brand we allow you to get a value price on the same gear taking the 5 year warranty approach.
-If the longer warranty matters to you the EG4LL models have an LCD on each as a perk and we think that given the fact that all the warranty profit goes to an American based company you can be more assured of the promise made at time of sale will be kept.
-Our warranty is a full replacement for either model during the period.

SOK did make the right move as a Chinese company to partner with an American company, Current Connected is doing a good job for them. I think our business model puts more of the value in the hands of Americans and make more design and support jobs here vs padding excess Chinese pockets. I would think that a current connected brand going direct may accomplish this but that is their business model to manage.

I asked the sales team in a meeting last week, we do not honestly hear about the SOK battery that often, the market is so big for a value priced solid lithium pack. What I can tell you guys is that if you choose us we will stand behind your packs and make more jobs here in the USA in doing so.

-James
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James, thank you for the details post. as the OP this was very helpful in making my decision. Since you still offer a 12v/400A version of the EG4 that seems to be the path of least resistance for me. If I were starting out I would go 48v all the way but since my new I/C is 12v and I already have 2 100A LFP batteries this will make the upgrade the least complicated. That is unless I find a compelling reason to go a different way.
 
SilverbackMP said:
Might just sell my two Sunny Islands and go with Victron and go back to DC coupled which I understand more so how it works (and how it's all connected). SMA seems to want to communicate in generalities and keep their echo system too closed. Trying to power two houses, a pool house (with pumps only going during the day), a business location with 2-7 employees, and a personal use wood/auto/tractor shop all off grid via a central "powershed." Not everything would be going at once of course, but I need modularity, expandability, and simplicity (as much as can be hoped for). Price is less of a factor (within reason).
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Yep I hit into that same wall. I had already bought a Sunny Boy and was in the process of getting the rest of the equipment and bailed out due to the vague and complex nature of the install.
I went with Sol-Ark instead and I am so happy I did. It's just so much simpler to setup and has a lot more features.
SMA stuff is probably the most robust systems on the Market but they are so complex to setup and the customer support is not geared at all towards DIY.
 
robby said:
Yep I hit into that same wall. I had already bought a Sunny Boy and was in the process of getting the rest of the equipment and bailed out due to the vague and complex nature of the install.
I went with Sol-Ark instead and I am so happy I did. It's just so much simpler to setup and has a lot more features.
SMA stuff is probably the most robust systems on the Market but they are so complex to setup and the customer support is not geared at all towards DIY.
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I am also toying with the idea of keeping the Sunnyboys and going with brand new forklift batteries. KISS. I have REC BMS parts in order but they aren’t here yet at the vendor and I could cancel.

Probably 20-25 year life with a more simple setup albeit with a tad bit more maintenance. And they are somewhat rebuildable.
 
FLA doesn’t really bother me…parents have been running off of cheap Sam’’s Club deep cycle batteries for 25 years on a old Trace and Outback 12 volt system.
 
SilverbackMP said:
I am also toying with the idea of keeping the Sunnyboys and going with brand new forklift batteries. KISS. I have REC BMS parts in order but they aren’t here yet at the vendor and I could cancel.

Probably 20-25 year life with a more simple setup albeit with a tad bit more maintenance. And they are somewhat rebuildable.
Click to expand...
Well if you do go with SMA just make sure that forum member "Hedges" is your best friend :)
That guy knows more about SMA equipment than all the SMA USA Techs I talked to.
I got so tired of hearing "We will have to call Germany and get back to you"
In all honesty it was during early 2021 so maybe the senior staff had stayed home due to Covid.
 
after reading this whole thread I can only come t the conclusion....yep magnum 4448 pae's are ugly... old tech and the company that bought them out (sensata) are a$$holes, but the gear itself is pretty solid and it just works when it comes to making AC from DC.
 
Previous versions of SOK tools (the pc programming software) only had 5 options for protocols. The new version that came out Yesterday now has far more, so I'm back to the drawing board testing SMA, considering the software now has a button that says SMA. This likely solves the problem, but will test it ASAP. If it works we will be restoring our SMA support once again.

The good news - Under RS485 we have a LOT more options. Previously we didn't have Voltron_485, we only had pylon 485. So i'm going to be testing this also today to see if it fixes some of the issues with EG4 inverters not communicating (because no one could update the firmware)


1659616924357.png


1659616978716.png
 
I got ancy and called Current Connected reference Sunny Boy and SOK communication. They are still testing it. At least it wasn’t a “no.” So I guess maintain holding pattern for now.

I’m just getting nervous as to whether I should keep the REC BMS order and go with CALB 230 volt cells (I value quality and no magic smoke over capacity and price) or if the SOK will work and be a hell of a lot easier to install.
 
SilverbackMP said:
I got ancy and called Current Connected reference Sunny Boy and SOK communication. They are still testing it. At least it wasn’t a “no.” So I guess maintain holding pattern for now.

I’m just getting nervous as to whether I should keep the REC BMS order and go with CALB 230 volt cells (I value quality and no magic smoke over capacity and price) or if the SOK will work and be a hell of a lot easier to install.
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The rec is a top quality piece of gear, and the CALB230's are the best of the best cells.

I did more testing today...not just with one battery but with a rack of batteries. So far, I can say the SMA has a much easier time with 3 batteries (in terms of not triggering OVP) as compared to just 1 battery. Before we say officially "Yes" we want to make sure we've covered everything fully.

Some customers are running SMA already with the known bug. I haven't gotten much feedback from those customers.
 
ken morgan said:
@HighTechLab so if you have an older “non smart” or non IOT inverter how do these server rack units work? Just like a DIY pack w/xxx BMS? Or is there something one would need to do to use it?
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Just set the voltages for Absorb/float/LVD and it would work fine.
 
HighTechLab said:
The rec is a top quality piece of gear, and the CALB230's are the best of the best cells.

I did more testing today...not just with one battery but with a rack of batteries. So far, I can say the SMA has a much easier time with 3 batteries (in terms of not triggering OVP) as compared to just 1 battery. Before we say officially "Yes" we want to make sure we've covered everything fully.

Some customers are running SMA already with the known bug. I haven't gotten much feedback from those customers.
Click to expand...

EDITed out this whole post because I was misunderstanding the issue being discussed and mixing it up with another issue... Shutting down because you're pushing the volts too high is a good thing! And awesome that you're testing out the fine points of getting it working on customer gear when I really think about it.
 
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I don't think Dexter deserves the above treatment at all.
He's been and open and honest as you can ask for, and I don't think he's intentionally mis-lead anyone.
All manufacturers have issues, it's how they deal with them that sets them apart.
I would have bought my batteries from him, but he doesn't currently offer 12V Rack style units.
 
Lilikoi_Heavy_Industries said:
This seems like a very substantial post detailing how SOK batteries have all the same issues as an EG4, can't start larger inverters, don't have working comms... Yet everywhere else on the internet people will be claiming the SOK has never had a complaint. Looks like after today we'll all just be pointing out they didn't do their due diligence and find that you were already disclosing these issues here, as long as it's just buried in a thread and not in the latest video I'm sure it won't affect your sales. EG4 kept selling strong under the same conditions right?

Nice bait and switch with claiming you were working on SMA comms months ago and then pulling it quietly! It was even more disingenuous considering you don't seem to have a partnership relationship with them that would cause them to want to support you in this effort.
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Um, wrong. SOK has never had the issue of not starting inverters. I've owned both the lifepower and the SOK and the SOK started and ran my inverter with one battery without issue. The lifepower would not start the inverter under any scenario.

The issues they are discussing are communication based. Totally different and not BMS/pre-charge related.

The SOK is measurably a better battery in many different ways.

And Dexter and Current Connected are one of the most open, honest vendors i've ever dealt with.
 
Koldsimer said:
Um, wrong. SOK has never had the issue of not starting inverters. I've owned both the lifepower and the SOK and the SOK started and ran my inverter with one battery without issue. The lifepower would not start the inverter under any scenario.

The issues they are discussing are communication based. Totally different and not BMS/pre-charge related.

The SOK is measurably a better battery in many different ways.

And Dexter and Current Connected are one of the most open, honest vendors i've ever dealt with.
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Yeah I do agree about it being better and all of that. I went back and read the statement, it is about OVP (I need to read the thread again!), not the inverter startup. Clearly a different issue than inverter startup issues. Thank you for correcting me.
 
HighTechLab said:
I did more testing today...not just with one battery but with a rack of batteries. So far, I can say the SMA has a much easier time with 3 batteries (in terms of not triggering OVP) as compared to just 1 battery. Before we say officially "Yes" we want to make sure we've covered everything fully.
Click to expand...

With what number/wattage of components?

Is this about "load dump" where Sunny Boys are cranking out power, loads are consuming power, but when loads suddenly switch off Sunny Island has to shove power down the throats of battery for a couple seconds? (Does SI drive "surge" charge current higher than peak rated? Higher than configured maximum?)

Can you detail the wattages involved, and maybe peak watts and seconds the batteries can absorb it vs. their voltage?
It would seem like how well cells are balanced and how far below their top-balance point the voltage is, affects that.

SMA says GT PV wattage can be 2x Sunny Island wattage, but I would think they couldn't handle "load dump" in excess of their peak charging capability. In which case I don't see where GT PV wattage limit comes from, so long as loads come and go in a staircase fashion. But surge capability of 2x would let SI start non-motor loads and carry until GT PV ramps up.
 
HighTechLab said:
The rec is a top quality piece of gear, and the CALB230's are the best of the best cells.

I did more testing today...not just with one battery but with a rack of batteries. So far, I can say the SMA has a much easier time with 3 batteries (in terms of not triggering OVP) as compared to just 1 battery. Before we say officially "Yes" we want to make sure we've covered everything fully.

Some customers are running SMA already with the known bug. I haven't gotten much feedback from those customers.
Click to expand...
Hello Dexter, Any update on getting the SMA Sunny Island to communicate correctly?
 
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