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Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

Hedges said:
That would be the utility meter?

(In my case, the underground feed goes into a box with utility meter, has two busbars, L1 & L2, that 200A Murray breaker plugs onto, has one Neutral busbar with screw to box. Two lugs, one for ground rod and one for neutral wire.)

Simple meter socket of course just lets neutral feed through, doesn't connect.




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How does a 140 pound weakling hang a 140 pound inverter?

When I hung my original 2.5 kW SWR-2500U inverters 17 years ago, I was probably stronger and they were only 75 lbs. I was able to carry them up a stepladder and hang them head high. Taking them down to upgrade was doable, but difficult When I hung 75 lb transformerless 10000TLUS under the deck...
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The nice teamster truck driver that delivered some stuff, agreed to take 5 minutes and followed me down to my basement, and helped lift the 15k onto the french cleat, so that part of my day went well. Prior to his arrival/help I was investigating use of my engine hoist or my cable come-along bolted to basement ceiling, with a cargo net to support the solark lift effort.

I am now wondering if I go to my outside garage wall , and intercept the 200A meter supplied home run going through the cement and conduit into my basement and insert the fused cut off switch there, does that change anything I can do downstream?

Is my main panel now a "sub panel" that I can splice the 4/0 al feed wires inside?

Would be great if I now treat my 200A main panel as a "sub panel" enclosure, and insert polaris lugs to make the main feed wires longer to go to the extra equipment I am installing in basement? (Xfer switch, Solark).
Figuring out some way to AVOID having to relocate the entire 200A main panel, that meets code would be very nice.

Or is the code such that when your main feed enters a large 200A panel it can only go one place , on the top lugs of the panel, right next to the main 200A circuit breaker no extension or re-direction allowed.
 
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After a fused disconnect, I think you can split any which way.
But does disconnect prior to SolArk have to be accessible to the utility?
 
Hedges said:
After a fused disconnect, I think you can split any which way.
But does disconnect prior to SolArk have to be accessible to the utility?
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This was my concern as well. I assumed it did need to be outside and accessible (likely close to the meter), but based on 12kw_2021's intention of mounting his inside, I questioned if this wasn't in fact the case. It didn't sound like his inspector (or utility?) had an issue with it being inside. The SA manual doesn't seem to offer any direction in this regard.

The issue I have with it being located outside next to the meter is, anyone with nefarious intentions could easily disconnect power to the dwelling, potentially disabling some security systems if the BU system (SA) was bypassed for some reason. Either way, I'd prefer to mount the disconnect inside if it's not an issue with the inspector or utility.
 
It is not a requirement by Sol-Ark. They put that in their diagrams as it may be a requirement by your Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).

The house I’m in has the meters inside as an addition to the house was made many years ago. I hope they don’t make me go through the expense of having to move them outside.
 
What makes me question if it needs to be outside is, killing the disconnect does not disable the inverter or power to the dwelling (assuming the SA is actively working with PV or battery BU), so ER could pull the meter and have the same outcome.
 
Wet1 said:
The issue I have with it being located outside next to the meter is, anyone with nefarious intentions could easily disconnect power to the dwelling, potentially disabling some security systems if the BU system (SA) was bypassed for some reason. Either way, I'd prefer to mount the disconnect inside if it's not an issue with the inspector or utility.
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One fine day in New York, the power went out. People hurried home before dark, knowing what was to come...


Your alarm system, and communications, could be powered by 12V SLA, with AC battery charger and DC coupled PV. That would provide triple redundant power for many hours.
 
Hedges said:
One fine day in New York, the power went out. People hurried home before dark, knowing what was to come...


Your alarm system, and communications, could be powered by 12V SLA, with AC battery charger and DC coupled PV. That would provide triple redundant power for many hours.
Click to expand...
I agree, the concern can be mitigated to a large degree (especially with the SA providing BU power), but the opportunity is still there for someone to disconnect from the grid with the flip of a switch, which I don't like for several reasons... Including the house can be occasionally unattended for weeks during one season.
 
In case you did not catch it, Will has started a series of videos on the Sol-Ark 15K.
I have to say I am super impressed with the first video because he actually opened the unit and gave us a look inside.

 
It was a good video, but it made me scream out "single point of failure" as I went to bed...

I wish someone would come out with a good modular, compartmentalized system rather than this focus on all-in-ones. Having modules that plug together makes it so much easier to make sure one problem doesn't take out everything.
 
Do you mean Victron style when you say modular or do you mean that internally it is setup more like a desktop PC? Meaning separate boards pushed into a main board?
 
Hedges said:
I don't see the need/benefit of moving neutral/ground bond from breaker panel to disconnect.
Maybe code requires it, maybe not, but I don't know why it should.

I could have an isolated inverter/generator feeding a breaker panel that contains neutral-ground bond.
Or, inverter/generator could provide the bond, and breaker panel keeps them isolated?
Seems to me, grid, service entrance, disconnect switch is no difference.
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wondered the same thing.

In two of my properties I got a ground-neutral bond at the service entrance outside at the pole - AND another one the main panel. (100ft apart)

I think the separation of Ground and Neutral at the main panel OR service entrance came either in 1999 or 2008 NEC revision.

When installing something like the Solar ARK - I could just install it between those two ground and neutral bonds. When switching being on Solar Power - the Ground and Neutral from the Panel would be use - and on Grid power the Ground Neutral from the entrance ? (both?)
 
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robby said:
Do you mean Victron style when you say modular or do you mean that internally it is setup more like a desktop PC? Meaning separate boards pushed into a main board?
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More like a Viktron or Motor Control Center-- something that handles obsolescence gracefully.
 
eXodus said:
wondered the same thing.

In two of my properties I got a ground-neutral bond at the service entrance outside at the pole - AND another one the main panel. (100ft apart)

I think the separation of Ground and Neutral at the main panel OR service entrance came either in 1999 or 2008 NEC revision.

When installing something like the Solar ARK - I could just install it between those two ground and neutral bonds. When switching being on Solar Power - the Ground and Neutral from the Panel would be use - and on Grid power the Ground Neutral from the entrance ? (both?)
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If nothing branches off from the service entrance, I wouldn't worry about it because nothing connected to the portion of ground that might carry neutral current. So long as the ground at main panel is solid.

If I have a utility drop from overhead line, I think that is 3-wire 120/240V split-phase, and the neutral gets grounded and at my combined service entrance/meter/main panel. Neighbor's house would be the same. So "Neutral" on the pole is grounded at both our houses. Some current could flow from my ground rod to his, not much because wire is lower resistance, but I wouldn't have done that on my property (similar with yours except two wires neutral and ground in parallel.) If neutral utility wire came loose at my house, then up to 120V is applied between our ground rods.

When you add SolArk, where would it be located? Adjacent to main panel? You'll want a disconnect and OCP before it.
 
Hedges said:
When you add SolArk, where would it be located? Adjacent to main panel? You'll want a disconnect and OCP before it.
Click to expand...

In video above, Will said SolArk could go between main panel and meter without a disconnect.
But inside the SolArk, the breaker (4 poles, 2 paralleled for each of L1 and L2) is on the "Load" connection, not "Grid"

1660225524347.png

Grid input (bottom terminals) goes to relay (below fan).
You want a fused disconnect on the outside, before SolArk (also lets you switch off power to remove for service).

1660225779587.png

Outdoor rated? But vent on top has no baffle. Rain will fall straight in, hope the exposed components (heatsink, any fan?) are OK for that. Debris would fall in too and start plugging things. I think it ought to have a rain cap. I would suggest putting an awning over it, high enough to not interfere with rising hot air.

1660226008086.png
 
Hedges said:
When you add SolArk, where would it be located? Adjacent to main panel? You'll want a disconnect and OCP before it.
Click to expand...

My Meter box outside at the Pole has a disconnect (200A breaker) (and space for 4 breakers, which I don't use).
1660226976599.png

Then I got another 200A disconnect (switch no OCD) at the wall outside the house before going into the structure.
1660227041766.png

Then it goes to the main panel where there is another 200A Breaker to shut of the panel itself. Not sure if this is considered a "disconnect"

I was thinking about putting the Sol-Ark either on the outside of the house next to the Emergency Disconnect, (after the 200A disconnect) or inside before the panel (which on a wiring diagram would be the same, just the wire length would be different)

Was build to old Code and when I bought it in 2014, passed the electric inspection. So it's not wrong, just weird.
 
Hedges said:
Outdoor rated? But vent on top has no baffle. Rain will fall straight in, hope the exposed components (heatsink, any fan?) are OK for that. Debris would fall in too and start plugging things. I think it ought to have a rain cap. I would suggest putting an awning over it, high enough to not interfere with rising hot air.
Click to expand...

Many things are outdoor rated, but with rain and critters, not so sure about that. I had multiple A/C units shorting out because of small reptiles or Ants getting between contacts.

Lately, I found a frog fried on the control board of my now defect Mini-Split Unit... So I would have to see in person the opening size if I would be comfortable hanging a $8000 inverter on the outside of my house.
 
Hedges said:
In video above, Will said SolArk could go between main panel and meter without a disconnect.
But inside the SolArk, the breaker (4 poles, 2 paralleled for each of L1 and L2) is on the "Load" connection, not "Grid"
Click to expand...
I think @Will Prowse is assuming in the video that you have a meter/main breaker unit with a separate main (MLO) panel. A common arrangement, but by far not the only one.

Apparently there is a separate channel for heat managment, but I agree it needs a rain hood to be installed outdoors. The gasket is more of a dust (NEMA-4) gasket than a rain (NEMA-3R) protective device; it looks like its intent is to seal off the electrical compartment. No idea how you would go about cleaning the cooling channel...
 
Shimmy said:
Apparently there is a separate channel for heat management, but I agree it needs a rain hood to be installed outdoors. The gasket is more of a dust (NEMA-4) gasket than a rain (NEMA-3R) protective device; it looks like its intent is to seal off the electrical compartment. No idea how you would go about cleaning the cooling channel...
Click to expand...
I think you assuming they are using normal Muffin Fans in the unit.
Several years ago I had issues with a Salt Water Aquarium Sump that had to be fan ventilated. Even top of the line 30$ Muffin fans would last only 3 months and then corrode and die. I finally found out about Muffin Fans made for toxic environments and wet areas. They are used in the Chemical industry on all sorts of machines that have high humidity or corrosive chemicals like Chlorine gas that need to be vented.

I bought one of the 120mm fans for $70 and it was pretty much indestructible.
Salt Water had almost Zero effect on it but it did eventually kill it after 5 years. Nothing I guess can survive being surrounded by salt water mist :unsure: .

Anyway when I opened it everything was sealed in thick conformal coatings and seals where all around the stainless steel shaft. And BTW these fans move a ton of air.

So I suspect Sol-Ark is using these kinds of Fans as they would have no issue dealing with fresh water direct falling on them or bugs etc.
The cleaning is probably done by rain water going down the fins. Insect small enough to get through the mesh get pushed out the Top and bigger ones cannot get through the mesh.

These are the type of fans I am talking about (See Hazard one at bottom) :https://www.mcmaster.com/muffin-fans/

My only issue with the 15K fan is that I would prefer the Fans to be easily accessible for servicing like on the 12K.
 
Hedges said:
In video above, Will said SolArk could go between main panel and meter without a disconnect.
But inside the SolArk, the breaker (4 poles, 2 paralleled for each of L1 and L2) is on the "Load" connection, not "Grid"

View attachment 106393

Grid input (bottom terminals) goes to relay (below fan).
You want a fused disconnect on the outside, before SolArk (also lets you switch off power to remove for service).

View attachment 106394

Outdoor rated? But vent on top has no baffle. Rain will fall straight in, hope the exposed components (heatsink, any fan?) are OK for that. Debris would fall in too and start plugging things. I think it ought to have a rain cap. I would suggest putting an awning over it, high enough to not interfere with rising hot air.

View attachment 106395
Click to expand...
Hey Everyone, just to clear some things up for you. Most AHJs will require a disconnect between the meter and the inverter's grid terminals. This gives you access to isolate the inverter from utility power for servicing. The 200Amp breaker is for the load side of the inverter and can separate everything after the inverter from utility and solar/battery power.

Regarding the potential for water getting into the top vents of the inverter: It is perfectly fine for water to get into this compartment, it is totally isolated from any internal portion of the inverters internals. The only thing behind those vents is the aluminum heat sinks built to cool off the system. The outdoor series are rated for outdoor use, just like the 12K this inverter has a NEMA 3R rating and you should be fine to even spray the cooling fans with water from a hose with no issue.For this reason, bugs and lizards pose very little threat to any internal parts as well but it is still recommended you keep these to a minimum.... The only serious point of access bugs and such will be able to get into the inverter from is through the conduit.

The only external part you will need extra care for is the LCD screen. As of now it is recommended to keep the LCD screen out of direct sunlight or use some sort of screen cover as the UV rays from the sun will start killing the pixels and sensors in the screen. Hope this helped!
 
Carlos_Sol-Ark said:
Hey Everyone, just to clear some things up for you. Most AHJs will require a disconnect between the meter and the inverter's grid terminals. This gives you access to isolate the inverter from utility power for servicing. The 200Amp breaker is for the load side of the inverter and can separate everything after the inverter from utility and solar/battery power.

Regarding the potential for water getting into the top vents of the inverter: It is perfectly fine for water to get into this compartment, it is totally isolated from any internal portion of the inverters internals. The only thing behind those vents is the aluminum heat sinks built to cool off the system. The outdoor series are rated for outdoor use, just like the 12K this inverter has a NEMA 3R rating and you should be fine to even spray the cooling fans with water from a hose with no issue.For this reason, bugs and lizards pose very little threat to any internal parts as well but it is still recommended you keep these to a minimum.... The only serious point of access bugs and such will be able to get into the inverter from is through the conduit.

The only external part you will need extra care for is the LCD screen. As of now it is recommended to keep the LCD screen out of direct sunlight or use some sort of screen cover as the UV rays from the sun will start killing the pixels and sensors in the screen. Hope this helped!
Click to expand...
Thanks for clearing that up Carlos. I would personally always put a disconnect between the Meter and the Inverter even if it was not required.
While I might know how to pop off the meter in an emergency, my wife has to have a big simple switch that kills the power in an emergency.
 
Carlos, any thoughts on where that fused disconnect between the meter and SA should be located (outside near the meter, or inside the dwelling before the inverter)? The manual doesn't seem to mention this.
 
Wet1 said:
Carlos, any thoughts on where that fused disconnect between the meter and SA should be located (outside near the meter, or inside the dwelling before the inverter)? The manual doesn't seem to mention this.
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That will be totally up to what your local AHJ requires, the placement will make no difference to the Inverter itself.
 
I should have mentioned. Where we are installing the sol ark 15k, there is a disconnect after the meter (same box), then the main panel is on the other side of the house. But I should have mentioned if the house doesnt have that configuration, a disconnect is required. Glad Sol Ark is here! Cool
 
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Will Prowse said:
I should have mentioned where we are installing has a disconnect after the meter (same box), then the main panel is on the other side of the house. So in my mind when I was thinking of it while talking, it made total sense. But I should have mentioned if the house doesnt have that configuration, a disconnect is required. Glad Sol Ark is here! Cool
Click to expand...
Yeah, because you finally did a video on their inverter….;)
 
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