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diy solar

They want to charge you for using the sun now

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Jim H said:
I am glad it failed… but like always they are a skilled bunch at slowly advancing the foot ball a few yards at a time… they knew it would fail…this time and maybe next time too . but they got the topic in the public arena and will try again and again… that’s how they work…. be on watch for tricks.
maybe one day they will go to far and we can through most of them out of office with votes.
that would be nice
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They'll tack it on to a bill called "Save the children" and call anyone who votes against it a racist child hater. It's the same way they tried to get a general data encryption ban.
 
Jim H said:
Come On Maaannn…!!! …excuses ..excuses…excuses…..if you can’t blame the voters of a state ,for electing the people that passed the rules that the voters are bitchin about , and then the voters DO NOT take the initiative to Vote Them Out,then who can you blame…It’s totally their fault…the voters are the only ones with the power to bring about change. For the voters to not act, enables the leaders to continue their abuses through the voters own inactions to remove them…
At some point we all have to take responsibilty for or own “inaction“…one can’t alway deflect any blame ,so as to escape blame…
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Well I would say if you cut out San Francisco, Sacramento and Los Angeles things may be better in California
 
A.Justice said:
They'll tack it on to a bill called "Save the children" and call anyone who votes against it a racist child hater. It's the same way they tried to get a general data encryption ban.
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Both Parties do the same thing. Republicans create a bill for Police funding then laden it with special Pork projects for oil companies. Then call out all Dems who don't vote for it as being Anti Police.
 
Quite simply, bills need to be super simplified.

1 bill for 1 item, or directly related items. No more fix the interstate bridges, replant the amazon, make it illegal to play polka music on tuesday, and legalizing drunk driving on thursdays, while adding a tax on cotton bed sheets and subsidizing the circus.

And no more 50,000 page bills released for review 2 hours before the vote either.

Some honesty in the bills names would be helpful too. Holy smokes if a bill says "save the children" the content is probably "mandatory sacrifices to Molech."
 
MurphyGuy said:
People who post fake news on this website should be banned.
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I think that's an incredibly dangerous game. I remember things a few years ago that were considered "fake news" and "conspiracy" theory, that have been more or less proven, or are at least an accepted mainstream view. Shutting down debate and banning accounts is not a way to encourage any kind of reasonable discourse. I see it as a pu**y way out of a debate, if the information is wrong, that should be pretty easy to prove, if it's not so easy to prove, it's at least worth discussing.

Who gets to be the fact checker, and how does that person know what's true or not? What's considered a fact or fake news? What if Will (or anyone) posts a video with incorrect technical information? It's not true, and can be proven untrue, so is he now spreading fake information and worthy of an account ban? It sounds ridiculous, but if you put a blanket ban on "false" information, that would be included.
 
The days of spouting off fake news deliberately are coming to a rapid end. I give it about 5-10 years before every public lie can have consequences.
Just look at what happened to that Sick bastard Alex Jones. If it has been my Young Son that had gotten killed at Sandy Hook I would have gone out and hunted him down. How low can humans sink? Well he has set a new bar. I hope they bankrupt him and send him to a prison full of horny guys. Then he can tell us what happened to him and we can all say it was a Hoax.
 
A.Justice said:
I think that's an incredibly dangerous game. I remember things a few years ago that were considered "fake news" and "conspiracy" theory, that have been more or less proven, or are at least an accepted mainstream view. Shutting down debate and banning accounts is not a way to encourage any kind of reasonable discourse. I see it as a pu**y way out of a debate, if the information is wrong, that should be pretty easy to prove, if it's not so easy to prove, it's at least worth discussing.

Who gets to be the fact checker, and how does that person know what's true or not? What's considered a fact or fake news? What if Will (or anyone) posts a video with incorrect technical information? It's not true, and can be proven untrue, so is he now spreading fake information and worthy of an account ban? It sounds ridiculous, but if you put a blanket ban on "false" information, that would be included.
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I just went and read the bill they were talking about. They even list the specific section. It does not mention anything about taxing off-grid people for charging batteries, nor does the text of the bill seem to in any way imply they could.

Someone has an alternative purpose in mind and is spreading false propaganda to kill the legislation. That's not to suggest is should or shouldn't be killed, just that the propaganda from the OP's link is a load of bull$hit.
 
I expect that we could see proposals like a flat rate for the connection to the grid and then paying the spot price for anything we use and hopefully get a refund for anything we send back. I don't see any other way to pay for the grid.

The problem with that scenario is that the grid owner becomes a de facto monopoly and there will be calls for strictly regulating the grid or in the case of excessive profits, making the grid a publicly owned utility.
 
LeoThomson said:
I expect that we could see proposals like a flat rate for the connection to the grid and then paying the spot price for anything we use and hopefully get a refund for anything we send back. I don't see any other way to pay for the grid.

The problem with that scenario is that the grid owner becomes a de facto monopoly and there will be calls for strictly regulating the grid or in the case of excessive profits, making the grid a publicly owned utility.
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I agree, I see a minimum flat rate for power with possibly the first 200KWh for free (well included in that flat rate).
Flat rates are probably the only way to level the playing field so that Solar owners pay their fair share for the Grid maintenance and to keep large enough turbines operational for those bad solar days.
 
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robby said:
I agree, I see a minimum flat rate for power with possibly the first 200KWh for free (well included in that flat rate).
Flat rates are probably the only way to level the playing field so that Solar owners pay theri fair share for the Grid maintenance and to keep large enough turbines operational for those bad solar days.
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"Fair share" - huh? If I'm not using it, why should I pay for it?
 
I just wanted to help people and now this BS nonsense happens. No wonder I rarely bother to post here. Most of you are liberals and insane.
 
I give up on you guys. You are not worth helping any longer.
I quit.
 
SparkyJJO said:
"Fair share" - huh? If I'm not using it, why should I pay for it?
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Are you grid tied? If not then you would pay nothing but if you are Grid tied then people are going to have to pay some money to keep the infrastructure and the Generators running.
 
timselectric said:
Maybe for your area. Not for mine.

That's a good thing, and makes it even cheaper to cut the cord.
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Electrical rates need to be north of around 40 to 50 cents per kWh to make even a DIY battery bank break even on the investment. And that doesn't include the life expectancy of the inverter or charge controllers.

Grid power is the cheapest no matter where you are. As battery prices come down, and the cycle life of the batteries goes up, that break even point is falling. Going to be another 5 to 10 years though unless you get a really lucky deal on battery cells.

I bought 25kWh of new (never cycled) LG Chem N2.1 cells destined for the Chevy Bolt and ended up paying about $80/kWh shipped to my door. That is a phenomenally good price that can't be found today. But even at that price, I'm no where close to breaking even on my investment. Only reason I did it was because we're preppers and our rural countryside home loses power every other month.

High electric bills might piss you off, but they are nothing compared to purchasing and replacing batteries.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Electrical rates need to be north of around 40 to 50 cents per kWh to make even a DIY battery bank break even on the investment. And that doesn't include the life expectancy of the inverter or charge controllers.

Grid power is the cheapest no matter where you are. As battery prices come down, and the cycle life of the batteries goes up, that break even point is falling. Going to be another 5 to 10 years though unless you get a really lucky deal on battery cells.

I bought 25kWh of new (never cycled) LG Chem N2.1 cells destined for the Chevy Bolt and ended up paying about $80/kWh shipped to my door. That is a phenomenally good price that can't be found today. But even at that price, I'm no where close to breaking even on my investment. Only reason I did it was because we're preppers and our rural countryside home loses power every other month.

High electric bills might piss you off, but they are nothing compared to purchasing and replacing batteries.
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Not sure how you came up with that Math.
Even using a Sol-Ark 12K and 10KW of panels with 6 x SOK batteries it can be installed for under $35K.
At 50 cents a KWh a home that uses 1500KWh a month would use $9000 in electricity per year.
That is just under a 4 year Pay back period. If you want to tag on an extra $11,000 and make it a $46K system with 6x Teir1 one batteries from lets say Fortress Power or Another Teir1 company your still looking at at just a tad over 5 years of Pay back on a system that has a 10 Year Warranty and will most likely work very well for those ten years across all of the components. By time you hit the 10 Year Mark the money you would have saved if Banked from the 5 year point can buy back all new equipment for free and give you 10 more years of completely free power.

The ROI only gets sketchy if your bill is under 30 cents. Then you either get it because you want to be energy independent or you get cheaper equipment at lets say $18K and you will still get a 5 year Payback.

The only time I think ROI is a moot point is when your at that 10-13 cent point. At that price it's going to be mostly about energy independence or if your shooting for ROI your really going to have to buy low priced equipment, DIY everything and hope for the best.
 
robby said:
Not sure how you came up with that Math.
Even using a Sol-Ark 12K and 10KW of panels with 6 x SOK batteries it can be installed for under $35K.
At 50 cents a KWh a home that uses 1500KWh a month would use $9000 in electricity per year.
That is just under a 4 year Pay back period. If you want to tag on an extra $11,000 and make it a $46K system with 6x Teir1 one batteries from lets say Fortress Power or Another Teir1 company your still looking at at just a tad over 5 years of Pay back on a system that has a 10 Year Warranty and will most likely work very well for those ten years across all of the components. By time you hit the 10 Year Mark the money you would have saved if Banked from the 5 year point can buy back all new equipment for free and give you 10 more years of completely free power.

The ROI only gets sketchy if your bill is under 30 cents. Then you either get it because you want to be energy independent or you get cheaper equipment at lets say $18K and you will still get a 5 year Payback.

The only time I think ROI is a moot point is when your at that 10-13 cent point. At that price it's going to be mostly about energy independence or if your shooting for ROI your really going to have to buy low priced equipment, DIY everything and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

PG&E rates in Lake County, CA are already at $0.37/kWh average of TOU rates (0.36 off-peak, 0.38 peak). I believe they already announced another 5% rate hike effective Jan or Feb 2023. Pretty lame actually because a lot of Lake County is powered by the 24/7 geothermal power plants in Calistoga.

This is fire country, so if PG&E shuts off my power on a hot windy day, I can't run my well, so can't run sprinklers to wet down my roof and the area around my house. Having my house burn down because of the grid being down is a lot more expensive than batteries (went with 4x Trophy 5kWh with built-in heaters since my hillside gets down to around 25⁰ to 30⁰ F fairly often during the winter).

Yes, a generator will work and I have one and a few tanks of propane just in case, but I moved out here for the peace and quiet away from the city.
 
MurphyGuy said:
Electrical rates need to be north of around 40 to 50 cents per kWh to make even a DIY battery bank break even on the investment. And that doesn't include the life expectancy of the inverter or charge controllers.

Grid power is the cheapest no matter where you are. As battery prices come down, and the cycle life of the batteries goes up, that break even point is falling. Going to be another 5 to 10 years though unless you get a really lucky deal on battery cells.

I bought 25kWh of new (never cycled) LG Chem N2.1 cells destined for the Chevy Bolt and ended up paying about $80/kWh shipped to my door. That is a phenomenally good price that can't be found today. But even at that price, I'm no where close to breaking even on my investment. Only reason I did it was because we're preppers and our rural countryside home loses power every other month.

High electric bills might piss you off, but they are nothing compared to purchasing and replacing batteries.
Click to expand...
You got ripped off.
 
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