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diy solar

How green is solar energy?

Alexander

Alexander

New Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
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92
I guess you already heard that question many times, but I am wondering what's your opinion about it, what's the facts you know about it!

Is solar panel the "greenest" energy we have? After how many years of use a normal 100w solar panel is "green profitable"? What about the battery? Are there new studies in progress for "greener" ones?
 
Based on some cursory search, solar panels take about 3 years to become carbon neutral.

Batteries will never be carbon neutral as they produce nothing. The only time they're of value is in off-grid scenario where they actually store otherwise unused electricity. In a grid tie situation the grid serves as a battery therefore batteries at home are not green. Battery manufacturing has about 150 kg CO2/kWh of environmental footprint.

This is the simple answer. The more complicated answer is, you'd have to look at the energy mix the solar you install and the battery you get replaces. If using solar replaces nuclear or other solar energy production then you're not helping from an environmental point of view. But if your batteries are storing solar during the day to offset coal power at night they might have a positive environmental impact.

This is the same question: how green are EVs? And the answer depends on where and when you charge it.
 
CO2 output IS green. Plants would be brown without it ;)

OK but more seriously, if the grid is only "green" energy, then batteries are more and more of a requirement since the sun don't shine at night and the wind does not always blow. So you MUST have energy storage somehow, and therefore CO2 is ALWAYS going to be involved, somehow... Does this mean there is no such thing as fully "green" energy? I guess depends on how you define "green."

I think it is a load of bullcrap trying to eliminate CO2 from everything because that's literally impossible.
 
SparkyJJO said:
CO2 output IS green. Plants would be brown without it ;)

OK but more seriously, if the grid is only "green" energy, then batteries are more and more of a requirement since the sun don't shine at night and the wind does not always blow. So you MUST have energy storage somehow, and therefore CO2 is ALWAYS going to be involved, somehow... Does this mean there is no such thing as fully "green" energy? I guess depends on how you define "green."

I think it is a load of bullcrap trying to eliminate CO2 from everything because that's literally impossible.
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You are totally right!
 
As I recall... Wind is a little "greener" than solar as it requires less up front processing, but the wind isn't as available as sunshine for the most part.
Same for Hydro and geothermal. I doubt biomass/biofuels are there yet, but a 'cellular lifeform' that ate sunshine and produced fuel for next to nothing is probably in the future.

GregTR said:
Batteries will never be carbon neutral as they produce nothing.
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But.... if you look at batteries as a way of replacing night-time generation from fossil fuels (e.g., replacing peaker plants) ... then they are "green".
 
svetz said:
But.... if you look at batteries as a way of replacing night-time generation from fossil fuels (e.g., replacing peaker plants) ... then they are "green".
Click to expand...

I literally said that with the next breath of air... Thanks for agreeing with me...
 
Is reducing CO2 is your goal, must look at what goes into all of that: production, distribution, and disposal of panels and batteries. May not be as “green“ as you think.
 
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I think it would be very difficult to get a solid answer to that question.

Production of specialized mining equipment, the mining itself, transportation of the product as well as the workers (at every step of the way), refining, production, sea freight, and climate control for warehouse storage are just some of the many things that would need to be taken into account when calculating the environmental impact of creating a solar panel or battery. That doesn't even touch on the human rights issues of some of the workers along the way, which can be hard to put a price on.

I think the most green thing a person can do (energy wise) is conserve and reduce their individual usage. A well placed can of expanding foam could easily insulate a house well enough to save the equivalent of a small solar panel, or trees can be planted to block summer sun from your home to reduce AC use in the summer.

If I reduced my home's energy usage by only 15%, I would have saved 3,600kwh (yearly total ~24,000kwh). That's the equivalent of a solar system that produces about 69kw per week.
 
What is green? First define that then it’s easy to address.

If green is lifecycle impact, Lead acid batteries are prob as “green” as you can get other than pumped storage hydro for energy storage.

Common flooded lead acid batteries are something stupid like 99% recyclable with the infrastructure behind it.

Lithium recycling will get there but it’ll take time.
 
740GLE said:
What is green? First define that then it’s easy to address.

If green is lifecycle impact, Lead acid batteries are prob as “green” as you can get other than pumped storage hydro for energy storage.

Common flooded lead acid batteries are something stupid like 99% recyclable with the infrastructure behind it.

Lithium recycling will get there but it’ll take time.
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Not easy to define, but let's say, something which has the least impact on humans and the planelt health.

So you mean lead acid batteries have the best lifecycle? They "die" slower than the other types? (Maybe it's a stupid question but I am new in this field so I want to make sure I understand everything).
 
Alexander said:
Not easy to define, but let's say, something which has the least impact on humans and the planelt health.

So you mean lead acid batteries have the best lifecycle? They "die" slower than the other types? (Maybe it's a stupid question but I am new in this field so I want to make sure I understand everything).
Click to expand...
least bad impacts*
 
740GLE said:
What is green? First define that then it’s easy to address.

If green is lifecycle impact, Lead acid batteries are prob as “green” as you can get other than pumped storage hydro for energy storage.

Common flooded lead acid batteries are something stupid like 99% recyclable with the infrastructure behind it.

Lithium recycling will get there but it’ll take time.
Click to expand...

Given the need for a BMS, I dont think lithium can ever achieve the recyclability of lead acid. The BMS and it's associated electronic waste will always be against it. You could theoretically replace the cells and reuse the BMS and case, but that seems unlikely with how electronics progress over time.

It's too bad FLA batteries are such a chore and release nasty stuff out of them. They are really nice from the recyclability standpoint.
 
Alexander said:
Not easy to define, but let's say, something which has the least impact on humans and the planelt health.

So you mean lead acid batteries have the best lifecycle? They "die" slower than the other types? (Maybe it's a stupid question but I am new in this field so I want to make sure I understand everything).
Click to expand...
The components that make them are relatively easy to recycle. There are also programs in place to get them back, easy drop offs, and core charges in place on new sales.
 
cs1234 said:
The components that make them are relatively easy to recycle. There are also programs in place to get them back, easy drop offs, and core charges in place on new sales.
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That's great. Do they last longer too? (I mean except the fact we can recycle them which makes them last longer because we use parts of them again)
 
OP, what are your "green" concerns about solar? Are you concerned about solar panels only, or everything in it (batteries)?
 
Alexander said:
That's great. Do they last longer too? (I mean except the fact we can recycle them which makes them last longer because we use parts of them again)
Click to expand...
In general, no they do not last longer. Some of the really big 2v fla batteries can last a long time if you treat them like babies, feed them, constantly change their diapers, etc..

LifePO4 is generally considered the best, most cost efficient, long lasting battery at the moment, on these here forums. The ability to recycle them is still in question, but if they start being used enough, hopefully that will improve.
 
cs1234 said:
In general, no they do not last longer. Some of the really big 2v fla batteries can last a long time if you treat them like babies, feed them, constantly change their diapers, etc..

LifePO4 is generally considered the best, most cost efficient, long lasting battery at the moment, on these here forums. The ability to recycle them is still in question, but if they start being used enough, hopefully that will improve.
Click to expand...
Okay great thanks! If you treat well for example a 70ah deep cycle AGM battery (by "well" I mean mainly never go below 50%, because I don't know other ways to treat them well haha), how long ~ should it last? Several years?
 
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