How green is solar energy?

[Ampster]

Going back to that 1000 gallons of gasoline in my earlier example raised the question of where are all those gas pumps and refineries going to go? Hopefully they can be recycled into EVs.

 

[sunsurfer]

Going back to that 1000 gallons of gasoline in my earlier example raised the question of where are all those gas pumps and refineries going to go. Hopefully they can be recycled into EVs.

They will figure out a way to build earth ships with them. Crafty builders those green folks.

 

[chess-equality]

There are far more questionable mass-effect practices than DIY solar. Don't overthink it.
.

Inside Kazakhstan's giant crypto-mine

Kazakhstan is now the world's second biggest crypto-currency mining country, thanks partly to a vast mine in the desert.

www.bbc.com

The RTX 4090 is imminent (TDP 450w, PSU minimum 850w, recommended 1kw) -- the miners again have a new toy.

We are currently testing the Nvidia RTX 4090—let us show you its heft

We can't say much yet, but its size may clarify who this $1,599-and-up GPU isn't for.

arstechnica.com

 

[GregTR]

I can't believe this question garnered 4 pages of discussion... Looks like a lot of you have very strong opinions on this matter...

Most people will not do what's best for the environment but what's best for them economically. The problem is that everything we do have externalized costs that the purchaser/user of the good does not bear either because of spatial (the bad stuff is happening somewhere else, NIMBY) or temporal (it is happening in the future that I don't care about) differences.

If there would be no externalities and the purchaser of solar would bear all the economic cost solar panels would be much more expensive than they are today. But so would gas, coal, and everything else.

The point here is that trying to argue the nuances of all of this and trying to make a decision based on long term effects is a fool's errand. We all are here on this forum which means we all think that at some level PV makes sense for us, be it actual economic benefit (I bet this drives 99% of the people here) or we genuinely care about our children's and grandchildren's future.

Posturing here with pretending to know all the nuances of what the future brings and drilling down into every environmental aspect of PV use is hypocritical in the least and smart-assery at its worst. You all are very smart, I get it.... Good job!

 

[Ampster]

Most people will not do what's best for the environment but what's best for them economically

I emphasized the economic impact because it is less debatable than global warming or green discussions. I also believe the free market will continue to be the driver of change and that is why I emphasize economics. I also think technology will come up with solutions. For example, while I would never want to use the batteries in my EVs to support the grid, there is emerging technology where EVs could play a key role in supporting the grid during peak hours.

 

[Ampster]

There are far more questionable mass-effect practices than DIY solar. Don't overthink it.

Now that you mention other mass-effect practices, the Crypto mining impact that may be a bigger concern for the grid than the growth of EVs. I would guess the Crypto miners run 24/7.

 

[timselectric]

Solar energy is very green, in my wallet.
And that is what is most important to me.

 

[sunsurfer]

Most people will not do what's best for the environment but what's best for them economically.

Most people don't want to stuff someone else's pockets(carbon credits) to be "green" Also, some people are smart enough to look at the actual science instead of following political trends and being brainwashed by our sad school systems and media.

 

[foggysail]

Going back to that 1000 gallons of gasoline in my earlier example raised the question of where are all those gas pumps and refineries going to go? Hopefully they can be recycled into EVs.

I read there is a group about to ask for a large government subsidy to fund grinding all of that stuff, binding it together with horse poop to use as a replacement for road asphalt. The grinding machines are in the final stages of design at both East and West Coasts universities.

 

[nc73]

Green costs money and usually there is no payback, not in a timely manner unless you got everything for dirt cheap or free. It's a hobby and you get to use all the power you can produce and not worry about the electric bill. It's too late to help the environment. Putin will nuke us all anyways.

 

[hankcurt]

I can't believe this question garnered 4 pages of discussion... Looks like a lot of you have very strong opinion

Hi @GregTR. I guess you are kind of new here.. welcome to the forums. This IS what we do.

Have you seen the posts that are 45 pages long, and only about 15 pages are on topic?

pretending to know all the nuances of what the future brings and drilling down into every environmental aspect of PV use is hypocritical in the least and smart-assery at its worst.

Obviously, looking at my previous three sentences, I can't argue your point about the smart-assery. I can only confirm it.

However, I think I can argue that you are missing a nuance about predicting the future. People will look at the guy with an electric car and solar panels who advocates that it is a good investment and say he is some goober who thinks he knows what the future will bring. But they are ignoring the fact that by choosing to stay reliant on the petroleum industry for transportation and reliant on the power grid for electricity, they are also predicting the future. Its just that their prediction is that these industries will continue to provide affordable energy and they are also predicting that if it becomes unaffordable, they will be able to purchase solar panels and an electric car then (when everyone is trying to do the same thing).

 

[foggysail]

Hi @GregTR. I guess you are kind of new here.. welcome to the forums. This IS what we do.

Have you seen the posts that are 45 pages long, and only about 15 pages are on topic?


Obviously, looking at my previous three sentences, I can't argue your point about the smart-assery. I can only confirm it.

However, I think I can argue that you are missing a nuance about predicting the future. People will look at the guy with an electric car and solar panels who advocates that it is a good investment and say he is some goober who thinks he knows what the future will bring. But they are ignoring the fact that by choosing to stay reliant on the petroleum industry for transportation and reliant on the power grid for electricity, they are also predicting the future. Its just that their prediction is that these industries will continue to provide affordable energy and they are also predicting that if it becomes unaffordable, they will be able to purchase solar panels and an electric car then (when everyone is trying to do the same thing).

EDIT: replied to the wrong post

 

[Supervstech]

Green is a challenge we all should address, but the ONLY way to do it is through corporate change...

If EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN HOME was 100% green zero carbon footprint, it wouldn't dent the global carbon levels.
Likely wouldn't dent the airline carbon footprint.
Maybe if all power production was hydro, nuclear and solar/wind with zero fossil fuel production in USA it might dent the levels, but the commercial vehicular traffic and airline output is insane in comparison.

I want my home on solar. Not just for green status, but for dollar savings.
I want my vehicles to be electric... nowhere close on that yet. I did buy a smith electric truck as a project to build an ev work van... long haul on that goal...

I started to get the wife a leaf until the used ev prices went ballistic after the gas price hike...
Maybe someday... for now, I'll stick with my diesel vehicles and keep planning for solar in my home.

 

[timselectric]

Everything is a process.
Just know that you can't make it to the finish, if you never start.

 

[hankcurt]

Green costs money and usually there is no payback, not in a timely manner unless you got everything for dirt cheap or free. It's a hobby and you get to use all the power you can produce and not worry about the electric bill. It's too late to help the environment.

Payback can be defined many different ways.
When I started deciding to buy stuff to try to make a solar system that could provide all of my electricity at least 8 months out of the year, with battery storage because net metering just isn't worth the added cost here, I calculated that I would be paying nearly double per kwh for my power over the life of the system. I didn't let that bother me, because it is something i wanted to do for fun, and for the satisfaction of the achievement. Paying extra for my electricity was a reasonable cost for the hobby.

However, I was watching some videos from guys in Europe who put in PV systems a few years ago and figured they would have 15 to 20 year payback, and now they are suddenly looking at 2 to 3 year payback times. The economics can really change in a hurry. And then you get the extra payback of getting to be smug about being prepared.

Putin will nuke us all anyways.

Hmmm. Does photovoltaic output increase in the glow of radiation?

 

[timselectric]

Hmmm. Does photovoltaic output increase in the glow of radiation?

Hopefully

 

[Danke]

Payback can be defined many different ways.
When I started deciding to buy stuff to try to make a solar system that could provide all of my electricity at least 8 months out of the year, with battery storage because net metering just isn't worth the added cost here, I calculated that I would be paying nearly double per kwh for my power over the life of the system. I didn't let that bother me, because it is something i wanted to do for fun, and for the satisfaction of the achievement. Paying extra for my electricity was a reasonable cost for the hobby.

However, I was watching some videos from guys in Europe who put in PV systems a few years ago and figured they would have 15 to 20 year payback, and now they are suddenly looking at 2 to 3 year payback times. The economics can really change in a hurry. And then you get the extra payback of getting to be smug about being prepared.

Hmmm. Does photovoltaic output increase in the glow of radiation?

Yes, but we are overdue for a massive global cataclysm event from the Sun, that will destroy your solar panels…

 

[740GLE]

Yes, but we are overdue for a massive global cataclysm event from the Sun, that will destroy your solar panels…

GMD? Can’t say I’d be too worried about a solar flair damaging PV panels.

Grid stability, sure. 100 mile long transmission lines are much different than a few PV panels of an off grid system.

 

[foggysail]

Hi @GregTR. I guess you are kind of new here.. welcome to the forums. This IS what we do.

Have you seen the posts that are 45 pages long, and only about 15 pages are on topic?


Obviously, looking at my previous three sentences, I can't argue your point about the smart-assery. I can only confirm it.

However, I think I can argue that you are missing a nuance about predicting the future. People will look at the guy with an electric car and solar panels who advocates that it is a good investment and say he is some goober who thinks he knows what the future will bring. But they are ignoring the fact that by choosing to stay reliant on the petroleum industry for transportation and reliant on the power grid for electricity, they are also predicting the future. Its just that their prediction is that these industries will continue to provide affordable energy and they are also predicting that if it becomes unaffordable, they will be able to purchase solar panels and an electric car then (when everyone is trying to do the same

There are huge hurdles facing electric cars. Charging stations, charging times, transmission lines, additional power generation requirements and has anyone considered the availability of lithium, cobalt & manganese needed for large scale manufacturing of batteries?

 

[cs1234]

There are huge hurdles facing electric cars. Charging stations, charging times, transmission lines, additional power generation requirements and has anyone considered the availability of lithium, cobalt & manganese needed for large scale manufacturing of batteries?

Nope, nobody has ever considered those things.