Has any one placed the EG4 6500EX inverters under an oscilloscope to examine it's waveform to see how clean the power is? Found a very short video on YT with a guy testing the SunGold Power 6548, ( which is similar to the EG4 6500EX) and the waveform was not as clean as I would've expected.
EG4 6500 EX Under an Oscilloscope
- Thread starter Henderson
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This is probably about average for a cheap AIO unit.
Bear in mind that there is no "truth in advertising" in regards to solar. You can say pretty much whatever you want as long as it sells stuff.
The only way I know of to create "pure sine wave" AC (< 1% THD, in my opinion) involves using a class AB amplifier or a high-quality Class C amplifier.
Neither of those approaches is very power efficient or cheap, so aren't used for inverters.
"PSW" is visibly better than "MSW" though, when the waveform is examined.
Various reactive components of your load tend to smooth the jaggies seen on that waveform. Do you know if whoever posted it had a "real-world" load attached? Or were they just looking at the unloaded output?
This reminds me of the "audio amplifier big lie of the 60's" where equipment mgfrs were yelling about "50 watts per channel!" for POS amplifiers. They were only capable of that as an instantaneous value at at 50% THD, under which conditions it was pretty much unlistenable.
The FTC finally stepped in and imposed the "% THD at a specified power level into a specified load" to stop the consumer being ripped off.
Bear in mind that there is no "truth in advertising" in regards to solar. You can say pretty much whatever you want as long as it sells stuff.
The only way I know of to create "pure sine wave" AC (< 1% THD, in my opinion) involves using a class AB amplifier or a high-quality Class C amplifier.
Neither of those approaches is very power efficient or cheap, so aren't used for inverters.
"PSW" is visibly better than "MSW" though, when the waveform is examined.
Various reactive components of your load tend to smooth the jaggies seen on that waveform. Do you know if whoever posted it had a "real-world" load attached? Or were they just looking at the unloaded output?
This reminds me of the "audio amplifier big lie of the 60's" where equipment mgfrs were yelling about "50 watts per channel!" for POS amplifiers. They were only capable of that as an instantaneous value at at 50% THD, under which conditions it was pretty much unlistenable.
The FTC finally stepped in and imposed the "% THD at a specified power level into a specified load" to stop the consumer being ripped off.
Not sure what load was applied. The inverters normally advertise in their spec about being less than 5% THD (less than 6% is considered clean power). I'm not sure what % THD is shown in the YT video, but I don't think it's low THD like 3 or even 5%. Looks more like 12 or 15% but I could be wrong.
SignatureSolarJames
Try Solar, the Grid will always take you back
WIll be posting our scope readings today
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Looking forward to it James. Thanks.
How do you set up your scope to read that high voltage?
I've a Tektronix 2445A which I use for hobby electronics, mainly just Arduino projects, so 12 - 14V maximum for relays etc.
I've already let the magic smoke out of plenty of other things, so I know how quickly I could ruin my scope.
You can either use a 10X or 100X probe which would divide the voltage you are trying to measure by 10 or 100. Therefore, your scope will see 12 volts with a 10X probe and 1.2 volts with a 100X probe when measuring 120-volt AC outlet.How do you set up your scope to read that high voltage?
I've a Tektronix 2445A which I use for hobby electronics, mainly just Arduino projects, so 12 - 14V maximum for relays etc.
I've already let the magic smoke out of plenty of other things, so I know how quickly I could ruin my scope.
robby
Photon Vampire
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This is the kind of thing I have been begging @Will Prowse to do as part of his standard testing.
With no load even those $350 pure sinewave inverters look clean but once you start to load them the Sinewave turns to crap and that is probably what cause the lights and other items to flicker.
Mine doesn't. This is new model that has issue. Already did after we had previous discussion. I don't have the new model.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Here is one post: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/eg4-6500ex-lights-flickering.50220/post-700797
Note it is a single inverter and not a pair.
SignatureSolarJames
Try Solar, the Grid will always take you back
EG4 6.5K Ocilioscope readings
Sheet1 EG4 6.5 K Regol Sine Wave Graph Firmware Ver. (61.10) 79.61 with 2,460 watt load ,LED & Heater BATTERY Battery and PV Battery, PV, & AC Battery and Grid
this is the new model with all firmware updated
Alkaline
Solar Wizard
Thanks for the info. But you mentioned that the readings you're providing is the new model...does that mean that the very first units of the EG4 6500EX inverters will not have power this clean?EG4 6.5K Ocilioscope readings
Sheet1 EG4 6.5 K Regol Sine Wave Graph Firmware Ver. (61.10) 79.61 with 2,460 watt load ,LED & Heater BATTERY Battery and PV Battery, PV, & AC Battery and Griddocs.google.com
this is the new model with all firmware updated
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Single inverter or a pair with split phase? From what I've seen, the problems seem to be more prevalent in split phase.EG4 6.5K Ocilioscope readings
Sheet1 EG4 6.5 K Regol Sine Wave Graph Firmware Ver. (61.10) 79.61 with 2,460 watt load ,LED & Heater BATTERY Battery and PV Battery, PV, & AC Battery and Grid
this is the new model with all firmware updated
Bud Martin
Solar Wizard
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Can you provide the waveform before the FW update?
per this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/resolved-eg4-6500-and-6000-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/
per this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/resolved-eg4-6500-and-6000-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/
- What happened: An unauthorized minor component hardware change was made at the Voltronic factory on the standard 6500 and 6000w rectifiers inside the All-in-one inverters; We use the same factory as MPP solar, Sungold, Rich Solar, and other 6000/6500 units, Our units are specced with exclusive money-saving added features but this issue came down to Rectifier management; the firmware starved the rectifier by not allowing battery power to be prioritized on a board level. This caused the sine wave in PV charge circumstances to deform slightly and make lights flicker.
EG4 6.5K Ocilioscope readings
Sheet1 EG4 6.5 K Regol Sine Wave Graph Firmware Ver. (61.10) 79.61 with 2,460 watt load ,LED & Heater BATTERY Battery and PV Battery, PV, & AC Battery and Grid
this is the new model with all firmware updated
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Review tests should definitely include a significant but common non-linear appliance load like a microwave oven. Especially for HF split-phase inverters the test will show performance and power quality with phase imbalance. Many inverters have good power quality with no load but degrade drastically under load.
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robby
Photon Vampire
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That’s great news.
I am hoping you will use it on a standard load test of about 80% of a inverters rated load. I think a mix of non inductive and inductive loads will give a realistic results.
