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Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?

Midnight: $2550/120A/ ?1? String. Seriously proud of that one, Victron seems to be a better deal. Schneider has bothered me since they bought 1/2 the electrical products on the planet. Their rack cabinets are abysmally engineered, you cannot remove the doors when they are bolted together without opening the next cabinet, the APC UPS's... I digress, the Schneider 100A is $1500, it is in a HUGE cabinet. Not a problem with unlimited wall space, and we are also more proud if it than Victron. Blue sounds like a better deal.

Unfortunately, the more boxes you have the more likely *one* will fail. It's purely statistical.Longer term all this stuff will continually get more reliable, and less expensive, at which the more modular approach will fade.
Ahh, gotcha. So it's not that they don't make one.. you just had some unmentioned requirements about them. Gotta love the moving goalposts :)

I do find it interesting that you are discounting the schnieder based on your dislike for other (unrelated) products that they have. Especially after acknowledging that they simply bought other companies/products. It's not like the team who designed the netshelter, is the same team that designed the SmartUPS, or the solar equipment. so critiquing unrelated gear just sounds like a rant IMO.


As for modular vs aio, everyone has their own opinion. But your claim of
Unfortunately, the more boxes you have the more likely *one* will fail. It's purely statistical.
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are packing the same number of components into a SINGLE unit, vs spreading those components out into multiple devices, wouldn't you theoretically have the same likelyhood of failure? The obvious difference is, in that little diode, mosfet, capacitor, etc fails in the aio, the impact is more significant. But I digress. Different strokes and all that. Based on your claim of it being purely statistical, seems to me you'd want to limit the impact from the inevitable.

Anyway, I initially posted to help, but.. I'll bow out of the conversation.
 
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They won't allow you to use after makeover charge cables.

I rarely use the official Apple cables and don’t have a problem. Just buy the mifi certified ones and they work no problem. Anker makes good ones.

Overpriced? My wife has been through 3 Androids because they couldn’t run the latest Android OS. my iPhone 6s lasted me eight years and still runs perfectly fine on iOS 15.x (current iOS is up to 16.x). So it cost me less to own an iphone that it did to buy three Androids.
 
I bought my wife an iPhone 5s and she used it for years, including after she drove over it cracking the screen. She still uses it but not as a cell phone since 3G was decommissioned and only VoLTE supported on T-Mobile (which we have through Ting.)

Now she uses a 6s, as I do since falling in the pool with my 5s.

We've gone through a lot of ("genuine"?) Lighting cables. Just keep a quantity on hand. So long as the connector in the iPhone doesn't fail, I'm happy.

Apparently its navigation app will take you to the middle of nowhere, but not back. My Garmin holds all roads in U.S. and Europe on 4 GB SD card, but iPhone won't remember the path it directed me on with its 128 GB. I plan to download a 3rd party app. I think Android also has that feature.
 
I bought my wife an iPhone 5s and she used it for years, including after she drove over it cracking the screen. She still uses it but not as a cell phone since 3G was decommissioned and only VoLTE supported on T-Mobile (which we have through Ting.)

Now she uses a 6s, as I do since falling in the pool with my 5s.

We've gone through a lot of ("genuine"?) Lighting cables. Just keep a quantity on hand. So long as the connector in the iPhone doesn't fail, I'm happy.

Apparently its navigation app will take you to the middle of nowhere, but not back. My Garmin holds all roads in U.S. and Europe on 4 GB SD card, but iPhone won't remember the path it directed me on with its 128 GB. I plan to download a 3rd party app. I think Android also has that feature.

I have had both Google Maps and Apple Maps fail me. And sometimes one worked where the other didn’t. I keep both on my phone.
 
My personal phone is an Apple 6s, work phone a Samsung. Positives and negatives to both. Also a lot of similarities. Switching from one to the other is fairly easy.
 
I rarely use the official Apple cables and don’t have a problem. Just buy the mifi certified ones and they work no problem. Anker makes good ones.

Overpriced? My wife has been through 3 Androids because they couldn’t run the latest Android OS. my iPhone 6s lasted me eight years and still runs perfectly fine on iOS 15.x (current iOS is up to 16.x). So it cost me less to own an iphone that it did to buy three Androids.
Lucky you. My experience was totally opposite. We now run Samsung gear. Tablets and phones. Very happy with the transition.
 
Not sure what you mean by fairly locked down eco-system? Software wise Victron probably has the most open and transparent software system of any of the manufacturers.

Yeah, and to add to this, you can use Victron shunts to add point-of-measure for other brand components, like wind turbines and chargers that don't interface with Victron, to be a measurement device.

So if you have a turbine or a charge controller that isn't Victron, it's easy to get it into the VRM eco-system, just by adding a shunt there.

More Info:


I've loved my VRM stuff so much in my temporary RV power setup, so now as I roll out my MPP Solar power wall for the permanent system, I decided to build it with a BMV-712 shunt as well.
 
If you work hard enough you can buy the 1100 bucks Apple support for the screen, is super cool!
View attachment 166013
That stand supports a 32" $5k or $6k display depending on screen finish that probably nobody here uses.
It's all aluminum and glass and it's heavy for a 32".
For considerably less money you can buy the VESA adapter and use any mount for the display that you don't own.
 
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That stand supports a 32" $5k or $6k display depending on screen finish that probably nobody here uses.
It's all aluminum and glass and it's heavy for a 32".
For considerably less money you can buy the VESA adapter and use any mount for the display that you don't own.
Yeah, lets get a 32'' for 6k! sure, and pay 200 bucks for the vesa adapter. Or the 700 bucks 4 mini wheels for the computer, or the 300 bucks for the 4 small feet. Wonderful options!
 
Ahh, gotcha. So it's not that they don't make one.. you just had some unmentioned requirements about them. Gotta love the moving goalposts :)
Actually, I did not realize they made one, I had been on their site, not the best for comparing specs. At $2500 I'm sure I ignored that one. I'd get the Victron for 1/2 that. EG4 has one as well.
I do find it interesting that you are discounting the schnieder based on your dislike for other (unrelated) products that they have. Especially after acknowledging that they simply bought other companies/products. It's not like the team who designed the netshelter, is the same team that designed the SmartUPS, or the solar equipment. so critiquing unrelated gear just sounds like a rant IMO
A little. They bought Square-D too. What tends to happen is over time these big outfits screw-the-pooch with cost-cutting implementations, which I'm seeing with APC. These cost-cutting measures rarely translate to cost savings for the consumer. And these huge companies for whatever reason tend to have the most abysmal web sites. Children writing software again, looks nice but non-functional.
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are packing the same number of components into a SINGLE unit, vs spreading those components out into multiple devices, wouldn't you theoretically have the same likelyhood of failure? The obvious difference is, in that little diode, mosfet, capacitor, etc fails in the aio, the impact is more significant. But I digress. Different strokes and all that. Based on your claim of it being purely statistical, seems to me you'd want to limit the impact from the inevitable.
Oddly, you would think what you say would be true, it surely sounds accurate, but it doesn't actualy work that statistically or in reality. This has been demonstrated over and over again in the electronics/engineering arena. The first round of consolidation is the least effective, but what happens is the overall engineering and packaging improves when you take control of the interconnect between components increasing reliability there. The next thing that happens is the overall cost drops for each sub-component as the integration get's tighter and tigher, and the components become more of a commodity part rather than a separate custom engineered assembly. It is weird, but I don't think the solar market is going to buck the trend.

Some of the current batch of highly integrated stuff is really cheap with sub-par components, but incremental improvements as the failure points are noted and the engineering is fixed will bring the costs way down and the reliability way up over the next several years as all this equipment becomes commodity stuff. I used to own a component stereo, separate tuner, separate pre-amp, separate control, seperate amplifier, miles of cable, a set of Magnepan MG-II's. . . Now I have a single unit, takes HDMI analog and digital audio, blah, blah cost me less than the amp on the component setup. Lather rinse repeat with computer gear, anybody here ever owned a PDP-11? Heck even the auto industry if you look closely. Todays vehicles are VASTLY more complex on top, but no more distributors, carburetors, and vastly more reliable than the cars of the 70's.
 
That would be the newer bigger better model, don't have field results for it yet.

When was the last time you heard of a Midnight Classic failing?
I'm aware of one, a forum member who had one fail. Midnight warranty replaced it. That failed. Midnight warranty replaced it. That failed. Midnight declined to replace after "third time's a charm".
The nice thing about midnite is they have so many off the wall uses that aren’t necessarily covered by warranty “spec” but they seem to accommodate
Such as both controlling wind energy, as well as Prius generator conversions
To me that’s a whole ‘nother level of excellence
 
Some interesting apple dialogue in here.
I was the friend out of my social buddies that was stuck on android while the rest turned their nose (jokingly)
Until one day I started a new job and was issued an iPhone.
It’s unreal to see the difference side by side vs whatever latest Samsung they have out and then as the next year or two goes by and the Samsung steadily degrades, slows, and seemingly always develops bugs. Meanwhile, outside of minor battery degradation (funny topic on a solar forum) the iPhone functioned the same as the day it was activated

Let’s move to PCs. I spent over a grand building a gaming PC for my son 3 years ago. It’s now entirely obsolete.
When I try to cut and edit 10 bit 4k video footage it’s a complete dog. No matter the 32gig ram, the 2TB SSD, or dedicated graphics card.
But my 4 year old iPad Pro can edit the same footage, and then export in minutes.
My MacBook Air with the M1 chip (and zero active cooling) will run circles around a windows PC with something like a 2070TI and I7 and the entire laptop from apple cost what the GPU for my sons PC cost alone.

I have zero desire to continue funding the man who made billions repurposing other people work who simultaneously thinks he’s the best medical professional and ranch land professional on the planet
And android imo is a walking security debacle

So imo apple isn’t perfect and they charge out the ass for the “latest and greatest” but I moved entirely out of PC and/or android and into the apple ecosystem and my tech life has never been simpler or more reliable. I currently have an iPhone 11 and iPhone 13 and have no plans to upgrade or replace either. The 11 is in a box for backup and if it was “unlocked” I would have already gone back to it and gave the 13 to my kids
 
Totally agree with Sunshine_eggo.
The customer service Victron offers is just unmatched.

Today I received two brandnew SCCs because the one I ordered earlier this year might cause some problems.

The ones I have are still running well.

Will install the new ones this week and ship the ones that are currently running back.

Following this forum, I think this is an exceptional service that many manufacturers can take as an example and learn from.
 

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Let’s move to PCs. I spent over a grand building a gaming PC for my son 3 years ago. It’s now entirely obsolete.
When I try to cut and edit 10 bit 4k video footage it’s a complete dog. No matter the 32gig ram, the 2TB SSD, or dedicated graphics card.
But my 4 year old iPad Pro can edit the same footage, and then export in minutes.
My MacBook Air with the M1 chip (and zero active cooling) will run circles around a windows PC with something like a 2070TI and I7 and the entire laptop from apple cost what the GPU for my sons PC cost alone.
I have been building and tinkering with pc's since 1994. The thing about a pc is that you have to know what you are doing. You need to maintain it free from background processes and be sure that the software you are using is actually using your hardware right. Then runs just fine.
You can build a pc for the same price of a mac and get 2x the speed. Is not speculation, just look at the benchmarks.
The M1 chip is actually quite good coming from Apple. It has a surprisingly very good performance in single thread. Ofc In applications that can use multiple cores is allways behind intel/amd. Gaming progresses very fast, any good gaming computer is average in 3 years and things are going to get crazy with AI. Look at for example games like Unrecord. But in a gaming pc you can also upgrade your hardware very easily.
 
I have been building and tinkering with pc's since 1994. The thing about a pc is that you have to know what you are doing. You need to maintain it free from background processes and be sure that the software you are using is actually using your hardware right. Then runs just fine.
You can build a pc for the same price of a mac and get 2x the speed. Is not speculation, just look at the benchmarks.
The M1 chip is actually quite good coming from Apple. It has a surprisingly very good performance in single thread. Ofc In applications that can use multiple cores is allways behind intel/amd. Gaming progresses very fast, any good gaming computer is average in 3 years and things are going to get crazy with AI. Look at for example games like Unrecord. But in a gaming pc you can also upgrade your hardware very easily.
That’s an excellent point at the end.
When I need to replace my MacBook, I have to replace the whole thing.
My boys gaming PC we will just upgrade the CPU and GPU.
But the nuances such as background applications or “using it right” simply don’t exist in the apple world.
To be fair, most of gaming doesn’t either lol. But for my needs in video editing it’s been great
 
When I try to cut and edit 10 bit 4k video footage it’s a complete dog. No matter the 32gig ram, the 2TB SSD, or dedicated graphics card.
But my 4 year old iPad Pro can edit the same footage, and then export in minutes.

I think the way to upgrade a PC is reformat the hard drive and do a fresh install of OS.
It will be much faster then.

I was happy with XP, until it couldn't browse web pages anymore.
 
I think the way to upgrade a PC is reformat the hard drive and do a fresh install of OS.
It will be much faster then.

I was happy with XP, until it couldn't browse web pages anymore.
It’ll do it. I just use a codec that PCs in general don’t like working with as H265 is highly compressed footage, but I don’t want to “upgrade” my camera just to use ProRes either.
It runs like a hoss with proxies, but I built it to not need proxies.
Was astonished to say the least when the iPad and MacBook are the files up like nothing

I may give your idea a try though for general peace of mind as it’s never been reformated since new
 
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