Opinion based on experience ?
Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?
- Thread starter sunshine_eggo
- Start date
Aridom82
Learning addict
Have you heard of the new apple inverter? Is called Icharge, produced next to the voltronic warehouse in china. Pay 32 gorillion dollars so our corporation continues to make record profits out of regular hardware with an apple on it that people will buy no matter what because is cool and 'it just works'. But works only with our Ipanels produced with extra sunshine technology. Cables are 200 dollars for 3 feet, but we will give you 2 inches more for free. Buy now!
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
The guys around here don't stock anything with 450v PV. I found it on their site and located someone online selling it. We are a teensie bit proud of it . . . The 2 string 100A unit is $1300.
My AIO's MPPT's are all "Full", and configured to meet any sunlight time demands. Adding additional panels at this point would be purely for additional battery charge capacity for the batteries I don't have yet
. . . So a couple of higher voltage MPPT's would fit the bill nicely when I do, and in this case actually simplify the wiring. Building up a robust 24KW plant to meet a peak 150KWH/day demand, is definitely different than getting 5KW for a trailer to watch TV in the evening, and keep a small fridge going.
HighTechLab
AKA Dexter - CTO of Current Connected, LLC
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There are plenty of examples of Victron playing well with others.And hardware wise? Everything works great if it's all Victron.
Example - Midnite solar controllers can be setup in leu of a Victron and it works fine. SOK Battery and EG4 (to name a few) work with full BMS communications.
Got another brand controller or inverter/charger with no VE.Bus and still want a Cerbo to work? Just use a smartshunt as an energy meter...
And if you want to get more crazy, the Cerbo-GX is essentially a Raspberry Pi - you can build your own Pi and run Venus OS without spending a dollar on Victron hardware.
We're 2 days delivery away from you in AZ...and we do have plenty of 450v units in stock.
Checkthisout
Solar Wizard
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I think victron has a pretty detailed schematic so others can program their stuff to work via modbus etc.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Midnight: $2550/120A/ ?1? String. Seriously proud of that one, Victron seems to be a better deal. Schneider has bothered me since they bought 1/2 the electrical products on the planet. Their rack cabinets are abysmally engineered, you cannot remove the doors when they are bolted together without opening the next cabinet, the APC UPS's... I digress, the Schneider 100A is $1500, it is in a HUGE cabinet. Not a problem with unlimited wall space, and we are also more proud if it than Victron. Blue sounds like a better deal.
Unfortunately, the more boxes you have the more likely *one* will fail. It's purely statistical. Longer term all this stuff will continually get more reliable, and less expensive, at which the more modular approach will fade.
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
How long ago was that? I gave up and put my Dad (94yro) on a Kubuntu box, I haven't had a "What happened" call since. He has no idea, but I did set up a VPN to my data center, so I can poke it every 6 months or so. I like to fiddle, this desktop is KDE/Plasma on vanilla Debian, but I'm also running Kubuntu on the GF's box. She downloaded the Zoom deb and double clicked it, put in her password, and it installed. It pre-installed LibreOffice, chrome, etc. When she needed a scanner, I verified it would work with Linux, plugged it in, went to the software center, clik'd on 'SimpleScan' (several to choose from) it installed and she started scanning. The only thing most Linux distro's lack is a replacement for Microsoft Outlook. I find it odd nothing has managed to come around on that front, but O365 web is actually tolerable at this point. If you have an old laptop laying around you might try Lubuntu or Mint. If you need Autodesk Inventor or some other Windows only application/game then you are right. Steam actually runs well on Linux with supported games.
Tomthumb62
Solar Wizard
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I tried several distributions. Mint, Ubuntu and a few others I can’t recall the name of. Plus I needed WINE to work and couldn’t get it to work. I tried dual boot for a while but didn’t see the point.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
And hardware wise? Everything works great if it's all Victron.
Gottay say... This doesn't make a lot of sense. People routinely mix and match Victron components with others. Folks use Smartshunts on non-Victron systems.
Victron is designed to work with grid-tied inverters... though they make none themselves. They'll happily integrate a Fronius PV string inverter into the ecosystem... Because users wanted it...
Victron makes batteries with multiple BMS options, yet my DIY NMC battery/Batrium BMS monstrocity interfaces lusciously with my Victron hardware. Orion, REC and other BMS natively interface with Victron. Industrious developers have written drivers for using JBD, JK, etc., BMS with Victron.
AiOs? How does an EG4, Growatt or MPP Solar unit interface with other brands? No better or worse than Victron. I could easily put a different MPPT on my system, and it would work fine. There would just be no communication between the ecosystem and the other MPPT.
I get that the price enrages you. I place great value on reliability and peace of mind. My units are coming up on 4 years old. I can count the number of problems I've had on one hand... All but one were my doing. The only one that might have been Victron related was the unit simply stopped communicating with VRM and eventually required a full power cycle (not just reboot) to reset the ethernet interface. Once it came back, it uploaded the 26 days worth of data it stored on the MicroSD card. Also hard to definitively blame Victron for this... it stopped logging coincident with a massive downpour that included several nearby lightning strikes - likely on the parcel of land itself. Worth noting that the GX continued to control the system perfectly... just no logging on VRM.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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That would be the newer bigger better model, don't have field results for it yet.
When was the last time you heard of a Midnight Classic failing?
I'm aware of one, a forum member who had one fail. Midnight warranty replaced it. That failed. Midnight warranty replaced it. That failed. Midnight declined to replace after "third time's a charm".
n2aws
Solar Addict
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Ahh, gotcha. So it's not that they don't make one.. you just had some unmentioned requirements about them. Gotta love the moving goalposts
I do find it interesting that you are discounting the schnieder based on your dislike for other (unrelated) products that they have. Especially after acknowledging that they simply bought other companies/products. It's not like the team who designed the netshelter, is the same team that designed the SmartUPS, or the solar equipment. so critiquing unrelated gear just sounds like a rant IMO.
As for modular vs aio, everyone has their own opinion. But your claim of
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you are packing the same number of components into a SINGLE unit, vs spreading those components out into multiple devices, wouldn't you theoretically have the same likelyhood of failure? The obvious difference is, in that little diode, mosfet, capacitor, etc fails in the aio, the impact is more significant. But I digress. Different strokes and all that. Based on your claim of it being purely statistical, seems to me you'd want to limit the impact from the inevitable.
Anyway, I initially posted to help, but.. I'll bow out of the conversation.
Tomthumb62
Solar Wizard
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I rarely use the official Apple cables and don’t have a problem. Just buy the mifi certified ones and they work no problem. Anker makes good ones.
Overpriced? My wife has been through 3 Androids because they couldn’t run the latest Android OS. my iPhone 6s lasted me eight years and still runs perfectly fine on iOS 15.x (current iOS is up to 16.x). So it cost me less to own an iphone that it did to buy three Androids.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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I bought my wife an iPhone 5s and she used it for years, including after she drove over it cracking the screen. She still uses it but not as a cell phone since 3G was decommissioned and only VoLTE supported on T-Mobile (which we have through Ting.)
Now she uses a 6s, as I do since falling in the pool with my 5s.
We've gone through a lot of ("genuine"?) Lighting cables. Just keep a quantity on hand. So long as the connector in the iPhone doesn't fail, I'm happy.
Apparently its navigation app will take you to the middle of nowhere, but not back. My Garmin holds all roads in U.S. and Europe on 4 GB SD card, but iPhone won't remember the path it directed me on with its 128 GB. I plan to download a 3rd party app. I think Android also has that feature.
Now she uses a 6s, as I do since falling in the pool with my 5s.
We've gone through a lot of ("genuine"?) Lighting cables. Just keep a quantity on hand. So long as the connector in the iPhone doesn't fail, I'm happy.
Apparently its navigation app will take you to the middle of nowhere, but not back. My Garmin holds all roads in U.S. and Europe on 4 GB SD card, but iPhone won't remember the path it directed me on with its 128 GB. I plan to download a 3rd party app. I think Android also has that feature.
Tomthumb62
Solar Wizard
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I have had both Google Maps and Apple Maps fail me. And sometimes one worked where the other didn’t. I keep both on my phone.
Lucky you. My experience was totally opposite. We now run Samsung gear. Tablets and phones. Very happy with the transition.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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Aridom82
Learning addict
If you work hard enough you can buy the 1100 bucks Apple support for the screen, is super cool!
Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
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Yeah, and to add to this, you can use Victron shunts to add point-of-measure for other brand components, like wind turbines and chargers that don't interface with Victron, to be a measurement device.
So if you have a turbine or a charge controller that isn't Victron, it's easy to get it into the VRM eco-system, just by adding a shunt there.
More Info:
Wind Turbine Integration with Cerbo GX & SmartShunt - Victron Community
community.victronenergy.com
I've loved my VRM stuff so much in my temporary RV power setup, so now as I roll out my MPP Solar power wall for the permanent system, I decided to build it with a BMV-712 shunt as well.
ampsarus
Real Goods Refugee
That stand supports a 32" $5k or $6k display depending on screen finish that probably nobody here uses.
It's all aluminum and glass and it's heavy for a 32".
For considerably less money you can buy the VESA adapter and use any mount for the display that you don't own.
Last edited:
Aridom82
Learning addict
Yeah, lets get a 32'' for 6k! sure, and pay 200 bucks for the vesa adapter. Or the 700 bucks 4 mini wheels for the computer, or the 300 bucks for the 4 small feet. Wonderful options!
ksmithaz1
Solar / EV Junkie
Actually, I did not realize they made one, I had been on their site, not the best for comparing specs. At $2500 I'm sure I ignored that one. I'd get the Victron for 1/2 that. EG4 has one as well.Ahh, gotcha. So it's not that they don't make one.. you just had some unmentioned requirements about them. Gotta love the moving goalposts
A little. They bought Square-D too. What tends to happen is over time these big outfits screw-the-pooch with cost-cutting implementations, which I'm seeing with APC. These cost-cutting measures rarely translate to cost savings for the consumer. And these huge companies for whatever reason tend to have the most abysmal web sites. Children writing software again, looks nice but non-functional.
Oddly, you would think what you say would be true, it surely sounds accurate, but it doesn't actualy work that statistically or in reality. This has been demonstrated over and over again in the electronics/engineering arena. The first round of consolidation is the least effective, but what happens is the overall engineering and packaging improves when you take control of the interconnect between components increasing reliability there. The next thing that happens is the overall cost drops for each sub-component as the integration get's tighter and tigher, and the components become more of a commodity part rather than a separate custom engineered assembly. It is weird, but I don't think the solar market is going to buck the trend.
Some of the current batch of highly integrated stuff is really cheap with sub-par components, but incremental improvements as the failure points are noted and the engineering is fixed will bring the costs way down and the reliability way up over the next several years as all this equipment becomes commodity stuff. I used to own a component stereo, separate tuner, separate pre-amp, separate control, seperate amplifier, miles of cable, a set of Magnepan MG-II's. . . Now I have a single unit, takes HDMI analog and digital audio, blah, blah cost me less than the amp on the component setup. Lather rinse repeat with computer gear, anybody here ever owned a PDP-11? Heck even the auto industry if you look closely. Todays vehicles are VASTLY more complex on top, but no more distributors, carburetors, and vastly more reliable than the cars of the 70's.
The nice thing about midnite is they have so many off the wall uses that aren’t necessarily covered by warranty “spec” but they seem to accommodate
Such as both controlling wind energy, as well as Prius generator conversions
To me that’s a whole ‘nother level of excellence
Some interesting apple dialogue in here.
I was the friend out of my social buddies that was stuck on android while the rest turned their nose (jokingly)
Until one day I started a new job and was issued an iPhone.
It’s unreal to see the difference side by side vs whatever latest Samsung they have out and then as the next year or two goes by and the Samsung steadily degrades, slows, and seemingly always develops bugs. Meanwhile, outside of minor battery degradation (funny topic on a solar forum) the iPhone functioned the same as the day it was activated
Let’s move to PCs. I spent over a grand building a gaming PC for my son 3 years ago. It’s now entirely obsolete.
When I try to cut and edit 10 bit 4k video footage it’s a complete dog. No matter the 32gig ram, the 2TB SSD, or dedicated graphics card.
But my 4 year old iPad Pro can edit the same footage, and then export in minutes.
My MacBook Air with the M1 chip (and zero active cooling) will run circles around a windows PC with something like a 2070TI and I7 and the entire laptop from apple cost what the GPU for my sons PC cost alone.
I have zero desire to continue funding the man who made billions repurposing other people work who simultaneously thinks he’s the best medical professional and ranch land professional on the planet
And android imo is a walking security debacle
So imo apple isn’t perfect and they charge out the ass for the “latest and greatest” but I moved entirely out of PC and/or android and into the apple ecosystem and my tech life has never been simpler or more reliable. I currently have an iPhone 11 and iPhone 13 and have no plans to upgrade or replace either. The 11 is in a box for backup and if it was “unlocked” I would have already gone back to it and gave the 13 to my kids
I was the friend out of my social buddies that was stuck on android while the rest turned their nose (jokingly)
Until one day I started a new job and was issued an iPhone.
It’s unreal to see the difference side by side vs whatever latest Samsung they have out and then as the next year or two goes by and the Samsung steadily degrades, slows, and seemingly always develops bugs. Meanwhile, outside of minor battery degradation (funny topic on a solar forum) the iPhone functioned the same as the day it was activated
Let’s move to PCs. I spent over a grand building a gaming PC for my son 3 years ago. It’s now entirely obsolete.
When I try to cut and edit 10 bit 4k video footage it’s a complete dog. No matter the 32gig ram, the 2TB SSD, or dedicated graphics card.
But my 4 year old iPad Pro can edit the same footage, and then export in minutes.
My MacBook Air with the M1 chip (and zero active cooling) will run circles around a windows PC with something like a 2070TI and I7 and the entire laptop from apple cost what the GPU for my sons PC cost alone.
I have zero desire to continue funding the man who made billions repurposing other people work who simultaneously thinks he’s the best medical professional and ranch land professional on the planet
And android imo is a walking security debacle
So imo apple isn’t perfect and they charge out the ass for the “latest and greatest” but I moved entirely out of PC and/or android and into the apple ecosystem and my tech life has never been simpler or more reliable. I currently have an iPhone 11 and iPhone 13 and have no plans to upgrade or replace either. The 11 is in a box for backup and if it was “unlocked” I would have already gone back to it and gave the 13 to my kids
