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Schneider XW Pro Enhanced Grid Support issues

Here in north Louisiana, we don't don't have time of use rate variations. But, that may very well show up later. And, we still have 1 to 1 net metering, and originally had no, or very little minimum rates on monthly bills. Now, we have approx. a $12 minimum monthly rate, fuel charge based on usage (minimal), and a damn 'storm restoration' charge of about $12. So, it looks like I'll be seeing about a $26 monthly utility charge. I guess I should not complain, since I do have grid backup when needed.

I don't know what nodered is, but probably lets you start/stop different functions at different times?
 
n2aws said:
I now have nodered configured to change the settings for grid sell based on time of use rates..
Click to expand...
At the risk of being dumb or too lazy to research it. How is Node Red physically interfaced to your system via the Insight device, RS485 port. In other words what is sending the messages? Maybe an RPi with a RS485 hat, Ethernet or USB adapter from a computer or your network?

I really need to get up to speed on communications interfaces.
 
Philip53 said:
Here in north Louisiana, we don't don't have time of use rate variations. But, that may very well show up later. And, we still have 1 to 1 net metering, and originally had no, or very little minimum rates on monthly bills. Now, we have approx. a $12 minimum monthly rate, fuel charge based on usage (minimal), and a damn 'storm restoration' charge of about $12. So, it looks like I'll be seeing about a $26 monthly utility charge. I guess I should not complain, since I do have grid backup when needed.

I don't know what nodered is, but probably lets you start/stop different functions at different times?
Click to expand...

Nodered is some free software you can run. It allows you to "point and click" your way into doing "automation" type stuff. It speaks modbus/RS-485. so without programming experience, you can set it to do a bunch of things. It can do modbus over TCP to the insight device, or via RS-485 with a USB adapter.

Today, happens to start the new TOU rates that is split between two windows (which the XW firmware can't do)

So, I have a series of time automations setup:

at 6am, it changes my grid sell voltage to 51v (allowing the batteries and solar to discharge and "sell back" to my main panel (I don't have NEM, so.. it's a zero-sell config).

at 10am, it changes gridsell voltage to 65v (enhanced grid support mode, so the inverter stops selling, and focuses on recharging the batteries).

at 5pm, if my batteries are under 80%, it enables the charger in the inverter to charge my batteries from grid offpeak pricing TOU rate.

at 6pm, disable charger, and set grid support voltage back to 51v.

at 10pm, set grid support voltage back to 65v.

But this is probably getting outside of the scope of this thread now.
 
Nodered is some free software you can run. It allows you to "point and click" your way into doing "automation" type stuff. It speaks modbus/RS-485. so without programming experience, you can set it to do a bunch of things. It can do modbus over TCP to the insight device, or via RS-485 with a USB adapter.

Today, happens to start the new TOU rates that is split between two windows (which the XW firmware can't do)

So, I have a series of time automations setup:

at 6am, it changes my grid sell voltage to 51v (allowing the batteries and solar to discharge and "sell back" to my main panel (I don't have NEM, so.. it's a zero-sell config).

at 10am, it changes gridsell voltage to 65v (enhanced grid support mode, so the inverter stops selling, and focuses on recharging the batteries).

at 5pm, if my batteries are under 80%, it enables the charger in the inverter to charge my batteries from grid offpeak pricing TOU rate.

at 6pm, disable charger, and set grid support voltage back to 51v.

at 10pm, set grid support voltage back to 65v.

But this is probably getting outside of the scope of this thread now.
Click to expand...

I don't have Insight, but do you think there is a way to use Node Red on my older, antique XW?

I can see where it could be beneficial.
 
Philip53 said:
I don't have Insight, but do you think there is a way to use Node Red on my older, antique XW?

I can see where it could be beneficial.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the older SCP/conext gateway. I'm not sure what capabilities it has.

That said, I do know they have a modbus map published for it. so, I would assume so.

diysolarforum.com

All MODBUS Maps and Schneider XW 6848 PRO integration into Home Assistant via MODBUS TCP

Here are the ModBus Maps for these Conext Devices, XW/XW+ , Microsoft Onelink shared below and attached to this thread: SE Devices OneDrive Link PDF’s - Below: 503-0244-01-01_RevA.4_Modbus_Map_Conext_SW_Device.pdf 503-0245-01-01_RevA.4_Modbus_Map_Freedom_SW_Device.pdf...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
 
Thanks for the info and link. That all looks like Greek to me, but my son and daughter both work in computers, one is in IT, and the other almost the same. Now....just getting them over here and interested enough to work on it.

Thanks again!
 
n2aws said:
Thanks.

So the first thing I notice is that you have grid support voltage set to 53.6. For enhanced grid support, it *needs* to be 65v or higher. You have this configured for grid support, not *enhanced* grid support.

At 53.6, You've told the XW system to "discharge from all sources possible until the battery is at 30% SOC". (grid support SOC 30%). Essentially, you've told it.. "keep 30% of the battery available for use, or 53.6v. if it drops below either of those, stop selling to the grid"

Change the Grid support voltage to 65v or higher and you'll see it will stop supporting loads, AND selling back until the battery is fully charged. This is what I described earlier.

This document may help:
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will try 65v again. I get so many suggestions....Set GSV=Float, >64, ....
 
Hamish said:
Thanks. I will try 65v again. I get so many suggestions....Set GSV=Float, >64, ....
Click to expand...
Yea,

Unfortunately, this is one of those "hidden" things where the UI gives no indication of what it does, or how to enable it. It's not until you know *what* to search for, can you actually find it.

I think when you change grid support voltage to 65v, you'll see it start behaving exactly as you've described that you want.
 
n2aws said:
It can do modbus over TCP to the insight device, or via RS-485 with a USB adapter.
Click to expand...
Thx, that is exactly what I was looking for. I have the discontinued ComBox, according to the manual it does have RS485.
As far as the new twice per day TOU scheme I completely understand the flow of logic. GXMnow has contributed quite a bit of knowledge regarding use of a Nano-10 PLC to do a similar kind of control related to grid sell.
I like the idea of Node Red though and will pursue this avenue. Sorry, we did get a little off topic so this will be the conclusion.
 
BentleyJ said:
Thx, that is exactly what I was looking for. I have the discontinued ComBox, according to the manual it does have RS485.
As far as the new twice per day TOU scheme I completely understand the flow of logic. GXMnow has contributed quite a bit of knowledge regarding use of a Nano-10 PLC to do a similar kind of control related to grid sell.
I like the idea of Node Red though and will pursue this avenue. Sorry, we did get a little off topic so this will be the conclusion.
Click to expand...
Yea, originally, I was asking @GXMnow about his PLC, cuz I was going to do the same thing. But he told me about a build thread from @400bird where he was doing something similar. Since I'm a complete nerd and had half a dozen pis that were unused, I started playing with that first. Then I found out that home assistant as a pretty nice nodered plugin too, and since I already use home assistant, I didn't even need to dedicate another Pi to it. HA and NodeRed are running on the same pi.
 
BentleyJ said:
At the risk of being dumb or too lazy to research it. How is Node Red physically interfaced to your system via the Insight device, RS485 port. In other words what is sending the messages? Maybe an RPi with a RS485 hat, Ethernet or USB adapter from a computer or your network?

I really need to get up to speed on communications interfaces.
Click to expand...
n2aws answered this, but I felt lost in the woods and know exactly how it works and know who told them to try Node-Red ?

Node-Red is free software installed on a Raspberry Pi (or any Linux computer)
The communication happens over your regular home network, so as long as the Schneider communication device (insight, combox, whatever) are in the same network the communication should be there.

Philip53 said:
I don't have Insight, but do you think there is a way to use Node Red on my older, antique XW?
Click to expand...
It should work, the insight and combox share the same modbus map. Do you have anything to connect your XW to your home network?
 
It should work, the insight and combox share the same modbus map. Do you have anything to connect your XW to your home network?
Click to expand...

No, I don't have anything like that. We are kinda computer illiterate here.


 
Hamish said:
Thanks. I will try 65v again. I get so many suggestions....Set GSV=Float, >64, ....
Click to expand...
Just curious, did you get a chance to set it at 65v? Did it start operating as you'd hoped?
 
400bird said:
n2aws answered this, but I felt lost in the woods and know exactly how it works and know who told them to try Node-Red ?

Node-Red is free software installed on a Raspberry Pi (or any Linux computer)
The communication happens over your regular home network, so as long as the Schneider communication device (insight, combox, whatever) are in the same network the communication should be there.


It should work, the insight and combox share the same modbus map. Do you have anything to connect your XW to your home network?
Click to expand...
Lot of information here I’m interested in so apologize if I’m reasking questions. With a Conext Inverter (SW or XW), a wattnode, insight home and node red you can do this granular level of control and automation including 0 sell to grid but back to main service panel but not past the CTs to the actual grid?
 
ChrisG said:
Lot of information here I’m interested in so apologize if I’m reasking questions. With a Conext Inverter (SW or XW), a wattnode, insight home and node red you can do this granular level of control and automation including 0 sell to grid but back to main service panel but not past the CTs to the actual grid?
Click to expand...
The WattNode and Insight alone allow that functionality.
Edit: that is a sum of 0 current. If your loads are imbalanced, the the XW will push current out on L1 to cover extra loads in L2 or the other way around if L1 is more loaded than L2

I added a Pi with Node-Red (modbus) to control charging from my AC coupled solar. Another reason to add some modbus control is to add a second TOU or charge window. Or to adjust some other settings based on other inputs that the XW can't see. It's pretty versatile, I am pretty sure you could implement automatic storm watch.
 
400bird said:
I am pretty sure you could implement automatic storm watch.
Click to expand...
If running node red on home assistant, should be able to have a ton of input triggers for different things I assume like weather or solar forecast. This is interesting. Not sure why I didn’t see node red paired with Conext inverters before in this forum.
 
ChrisG said:
With a Conext Inverter (SW or XW), a wattnode, insight home and node red you can do this granular level of control and automation including 0 sell to grid but back to main service panel but not past the CTs to the actual grid?
Click to expand...
As 400bird said, yes. the wattnode feeding data to insight alone is enough to do zero sell. But one point of clarification.. you need an XW inverter. the SW isn't designed to sell back to the grid/main panel.
 
n2aws said:
As 400bird said, yes. the wattnode feeding data to insight alone is enough to do zero sell. But one point of clarification.. you need an XW inverter. the SW isn't designed to sell back to the grid/main panel.
Click to expand...
I must not understand these statements in the SW manual (highlighted yellow below). Is PV inverter just the AC coupled inverter (enphase or other)?
 

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The SW has the AC coupled smart charge feature. This is not integrated (yet?) into the XW.

As far as the PV inverter is concerned, because that is a separate device, the SW can't prevent it from selling to the main panel or grid (same with the XW).
And yes, Enphase is an example of AC PV inverter that can be AC coupled. I'm doing it with a Solar Edge inverter.
 
n2aws said:
Thanks.

So the first thing I notice is that you have grid support voltage set to 53.6. For enhanced grid support, it *needs* to be 65v or higher. You have this configured for grid support, not *enhanced* grid support.

At 53.6, You've told the XW system to "discharge from all sources possible until the battery is at 30% SOC". (grid support SOC 30%). Essentially, you've told it.. "keep 30% of the battery available for use, or 53.6v. if it drops below either of those, stop selling to the grid"

Change the Grid support voltage to 65v or higher and you'll see it will stop supporting loads, AND selling back until the battery is fully charged. This is what I described earlier.

This document may help:
Click to expand...
I tried setting CSV>64 but the system is still selling power from the batteries. Same result as the last time I tried this. ??
Anyhow, thanks very much for that document. I have over 90 documents but I didn't have that one. It is very informative.

I am not sure where to go from here. In a previous blog someone mentioned that sometimes the xw gets stuck in off grid mode. I fixed that once by doing a complete power down of the system and then Rebooted when I brought it back up. I think I will try that this morning along with the gsv=66 trick.
 
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