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Hello guys I'm new here. I work for a China battery company and I guess I know something you're interesting in. Ask whatever you wanna know

The company I work for producing battery mainly for storage. Now it's your term!

Would you mind reviewing the below thread's original post and review the opinion for accuracy (perhaps read the whole thread for better context, if you have some extra time), maybe suggest some best practices that can debunk, and provide the most accurate 'GUIDE to properly Top-Balance and Charge a LFP Battery', from the point of view of an actual battery manufacturer? Best practices for maintaining longest life, most cycles...







Bonus thread (if you have even more time to review):
 
Inverter models are limited and highly developed. We don't make them directly. We just provide the design we need and hand it over to experienced inverter manufacturers for production. Because the main business is batteries, there are very few engineers related to inverters. The same goes for the charger, which adopts our design and outsourced production model. This cost is relatively small.
OK. Thank you. Very specific answer. I'll see other posts in this thread.
 
What are typical prices your company sells Grade A vs Grade B cells to distributors? C and D too. If you can't post recent prices, then assume you sell Grade A for 1000, what would the others sell for.
 
I have a question for the OP.

Last week I went out shopping for an automotive battery. Of course, there are many brands sold at many big box stores in the USA, auto parts stores and dealerships. Among my choices, were batteries made in:

USA
China
South Korea
Germany

In 2 cases, the made in China batteries were priced lower and the warranty was reduced, in the third case the battery was priced same as made in Germany and made in USA.

The South Korea battery also at the higher price.

Some batteries had 36 months free replacement and then 35 months prorated if defective.

Others just had 36 months prorated from the sale date.

As an American, I felt more comfortable buying the Made in USA battery from a rock solid American company. The two Chines batteries at the lower price had reduced warranties, I think to account for the lower price point. But the third was at the same price point as the German and USA battery.

Is there any reason you can tell me why I should have chosen a Chinese made battery instead of an American made or German made battery if they are the same price and warranty?

I know this is a tough question. Was the American merchant just marking up the battery to a larger profit margin?
 
I have a question for the OP.

Last week I went out shopping for an automotive battery. Of course, there are many brands sold at many big box stores in the USA, auto parts stores and dealerships. Among my choices, were batteries made in:

USA
China
South Korea
Germany

In 2 cases, the made in China batteries were priced lower and the warranty was reduced, in the third case the battery was priced same as made in Germany and made in USA.

The South Korea battery also at the higher price.

Some batteries had 36 months free replacement and then 35 months prorated if defective.

Others just had 36 months prorated from the sale date.

As an American, I felt more comfortable buying the Made in USA battery from a rock solid American company. The two Chines batteries at the lower price had reduced warranties, I think to account for the lower price point. But the third was at the same price point as the German and USA battery.

Is there any reason you can tell me why I should have chosen a Chinese made battery instead of an American made or German made battery if they are the same price and warranty?

I know this is a tough question. Was the American merchant just marking up the battery to a larger profit margin?
Shop around for that particular battery and compare prices. I think Full River batteries are made in Korea and they are one of the best AGM deep cycle batteries out there.
 
Would you mind reviewing the below thread's original post and review the opinion for accuracy (perhaps read the whole thread for better context, if you have some extra time), maybe suggest some best practices that can debunk, and provide the most accurate 'GUIDE to properly Top-Balance and Charge a LFP Battery', from the point of view of an actual battery manufacturer? Best practices for maintaining longest life, most cycles...







Bonus thread (if you have even more time to review):
I will take some time on it
 
What are typical prices your company sells Grade A vs Grade B cells to distributors? C and D too. If you can't post recent prices, then assume you sell Grade A for 1000, what would the others sell for.
Any sellers on alibaba you would recommend?
Do you make your own BMS? If not, what companies do you source from?
I feel it's necessary to clarify a few points. The company I work for is the battery pack division of a larger corporation. The parent company is involved in the cathode materials. Various subsidiaries under the umbrella of the group have their respective roles. Therefore, I am not directly affiliated with the battery cell subsidiary. As far as I understand, when the battery cell company sells cells, it typically does so in units of one hundred thousand and often in the quantity of one shipping container. Hence, the pricing may not be meaningful for ordinary users. Just like when purchasing a 3.2v 50Ah cell and a 3.2v 280Ah cell, you will always find the latter more cost-effective. Larger quantities imply a reduction in manufacturing costs.

We don't sell C-grade and D-grade cells. These types of cells constitute a small portion due to the maturity of the production process. Therefore, disposing of them does not incur significant losses for us.

For sellers on Alibaba, you can filter them in various ways. If you want to obtain direct factory prices, ensure that your contact person is from the factory and not a trader. Traders act as intermediaries and add a certain margin. One way to verify is to suddenly request a video call to inspect the production line remotely. Traders typically won't have time to coordinate with the factory in such situations.

Another important aspect is understanding the person you are dealing with. A reliable partner can save you a lot of trouble. So, try to engage in multiple conversations to get to know your contact on Alibaba.

I won't directly suggest a specific company on this platform. Apart from the prohibition on promotion as required by the administrators, another reason is that there are tens of thousands of new energy companies just in Shenzhen, China! Recommending one suitable seller in such a scenario is extremely challenging.

For Chinese manufacturers specializing in battery production, they usually don't produce other hardware directly, and the BMS is no exception. Why? If a factory were to produce BMS, it would need to set up a separate BMS production line, purchase equipment, hire workers, and maintain production with orders. For a battery factory, this is unnecessary because many specialized BMS companies have mature production lines. We only need BMS engineers to convey our required design and structure. This way, our clients save a lot of unnecessary expenses, and everyone benefits.
 
I have a question for the OP.

Last week I went out shopping for an automotive battery. Of course, there are many brands sold at many big box stores in the USA, auto parts stores and dealerships. Among my choices, were batteries made in:

USA
China
South Korea
Germany

In 2 cases, the made in China batteries were priced lower and the warranty was reduced, in the third case the battery was priced same as made in Germany and made in USA.

The South Korea battery also at the higher price.

Some batteries had 36 months free replacement and then 35 months prorated if defective.

Others just had 36 months prorated from the sale date.

As an American, I felt more comfortable buying the Made in USA battery from a rock solid American company. The two Chines batteries at the lower price had reduced warranties, I think to account for the lower price point. But the third was at the same price point as the German and USA battery.

Is there any reason you can tell me why I should have chosen a Chinese made battery instead of an American made or German made battery if they are the same price and warranty?

I know this is a tough question. Was the American merchant just marking up the battery to a larger profit margin?
Claiming to be a company manufactured in the United States, it is crucial to verify that their battery assembly does not bear the "Made in China" label.

We have a customs data system that allows us to query the import and export data of our competitors and target customers. While this system is not foolproof and some data may be missing, we often come across cases where American companies use batteries manufactured in China.

Regarding the relationship between the price and warranty period you mentioned, you need to establish a key point: warranty periods typically correlate with prices. Batteries with shorter warranty periods tend to be more affordable, while those with longer warranty periods may have potential warranty costs effectively transferred to consumers, leading to higher prices.

Assuming a product has a theoretical operational lifespan of 3 years, but you request a 5-year warranty, the seller usually shifts the potential battery replacement costs for the additional 2 years onto the consumer. If the product smoothly operates for 5 years, the seller profits from the 2-year warranty extension. However, if a malfunction occurs in the fourth year, the associated cost has already been borne by you, and the seller incurs no losses.

It is important to note that if a product theoretically lasts for 3 years, but the seller promises you a 20-year warranty and is not an established company, you should be wary of the risk of them going out of business. Once the seller disappears, your after-sales support will no longer be guaranteed.

Regarding the 35-month and 36-month warranty periods you mentioned, I believe there is no significant difference. Batteries are unlikely to fail due to a one-month discrepancy unless you are exceptionally unlucky.

As for the aspect of whether American businessmen raise prices solely for higher profit margins, it is not necessarily the case. If their batteries are meticulously developed, have a good reputation, and can provide quality service and after-sales support, all of these factors contribute to increased costs. As a consumer, if you want excellent after-sales support, you may need to pay a certain fee because behind these assurances usually lies an increase in labor costs.
 
..... another reason is that there are tens of thousands of new energy companies just in Shenzhen, China! Recommending one suitable seller in such a scenario is extremely challenging.
But for the DIY consumer, it is even more challenging with choosing a good source and prices, out of "tens of thousands" of energy companies, (and a number which seems impossible?).

FWIW, I absolutely HATED my Alibaba experience and to me dealing with just one representative was a horrible experience and offers zero competition or incentive and so in my case horribly bad service and misinformation being locked in to a horrible system and person. Never again. That sales model is horrible. And given your claim of tens of thousands of energy companies, I hope you can see why it could be a really difficult small buyer method of sourcing and buying cells. So much misinformation is likely for various reasons.
 
But for the DIY consumer, it is even more challenging with choosing a good source and prices, out of "tens of thousands" of energy companies, (and a number which seems impossible?).

FWIW, I absolutely HATED my Alibaba experience and to me dealing with just one representative was a horrible experience and offers zero competition or incentive and so in my case horribly bad service and misinformation being locked in to a horrible system and person. Never again. That sales model is horrible. And given your claim of tens of thousands of energy companies, I hope you can see why it could be a really difficult small buyer method of sourcing and buying cells. So much misinformation is likely for various reasons.
In a WeChat article, it was mentioned that there are already over 4,000 lithium battery industry enterprises in Shenzhen. If you include some trading companies, lead-acid battery enterprises, and other related businesses, the number could easily exceed tens of thousands, which is not an exaggeration. However, the authenticity of the data is yet to be verified.

If you are purchasing in small quantities, you might consider focusing on companies in your own country. I've noticed that in countries like the United States, there are online platforms selling DIY battery components. These components are usually carefully curated, and they often support PayPal payments, which could simplify the after-sales process in case of any issues.

As for Alibaba, it must be acknowledged that the quality of sellers on the platform varies. The registration conditions for Alibaba are shown in the figure below. The entry threshold is relatively low, so having discernment skills is crucial.
1705628826736.png
 
Shop around for that particular battery and compare prices. I think Full River batteries are made in Korea and they are one of the best AGM deep cycle batteries out there.
I shopped at 8 stores.

I purchased an East Penn USA made battery. With the New Year's sale still going, it was the best deal for a 36 month no proration and then another 36 months prorated vs. those batteries with only a 36 month prorated warranty and throw it away after 36 months.
 
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Substitute LF560Ks you could be tickling 300kWh.
with my next set of 16 cells I will reach my first 100kWh ESS.
However, I am not very keen on a single pack of 160 cells, not only due to that massive 512volt DC bus, but the statistical problem if just one cell goes bad out of 160, will be a tough thing to deal with. One cell goes bad in a set of seven 16s packs: just pull one rack out and have six running packs while addressing the problem cell in one pack. Easier for DIY I think.
 
@Battery_Kate

From your perspective working for a battery supplier:
We have seen in N.America a steady drop in prices for cells during all of 2023.
There has been speculation on the forum this is caused by decline in EV sales, or less sales than auto makers had expected.
I wonder if the root cause of cell prices dropping is simply the increasing supply-side (more cell manufacturers, producing more cells more efficiently.
From where you are, what do you see as the root cause in the downward trend for LFP cell prices?
 
@Battery_Kate

From your perspective working for a battery supplier:
We have seen in N.America a steady drop in prices for cells during all of 2023.
There has been speculation on the forum this is caused by decline in EV sales, or less sales than auto makers had expected.
I wonder if the root cause of cell prices dropping is simply the increasing supply-side (more cell manufacturers, producing more cells more efficiently.
From where you are, what do you see as the root cause in the downward trend for LFP cell prices?
Even though I work for a lithium battery company, I may not necessarily have complete and accurate knowledge of everything that happens. However, I can share some information based on what I know.

Yes, the decrease in lithium battery prices is also a topic of daily discussion in our office. On this issue, we have different personal perspectives. However, summarizing the discussions, the factors contributing to the price decline include:

  1. The decrease in the price of lithium iron phosphate cathode materials.
  2. Cost reduction due to the maturity of battery manufacturing processes.
  3. Decline in market demand.
  4. Increase in the supply side.
 
Even though I work for a lithium battery company, I may not necessarily have complete and accurate knowledge of everything that happens. However, I can share some information based on what I know.

Yes, the decrease in lithium battery prices is also a topic of daily discussion in our office. On this issue, we have different personal perspectives. However, summarizing the discussions, the factors contributing to the price decline include:

  1. The decrease in the price of lithium iron phosphate cathode materials.
  2. Cost reduction due to the maturity of battery manufacturing processes.
  3. Decline in market demand.
  4. Increase in the supply side.
As a follow up question:

For your battery firm, Huaxing Energy, has there been a decrease in quantity of cell demand over the the last 12 months ?
 
As a follow up question:

For your battery firm, Huaxing Energy, has there been a decrease in quantity of cell demand over the the last 12 months ?
As I mentioned earlier, I work for a subsidiary responsible for battery packs business. Since I don't have direct access to the sales data of the battery cell subsidiary, I cannot accurately ascertain the extent of the decline in demand. However, based on some daily conversations, a decrease in demand is evident. I just can't confirm how much it has declined. We can only hope for a better future.
 
a decrease in demand is evident. I just can't confirm how much it has declined. We can only hope for a better future.
I expect a battery company would focus attention on efficiency and volume sales to maintain profitability as best they can.
In a divsion like yours, where cells are built into packs, the focus would be on efficiency for current packs, and development of new products to open new sales opportunities.
We see in the general public a lot of interest in "Solar Generators" basically a mobile battery and inverter in a nice module package with handles and wheels to ease transporting. These units have various electrical plugs on them to suit 120v AC, 12v DC 5v I-Phone charging etc.
People seem to like them as they are lower cost (than a whole home solar installation) they are portable, and they don't require any code or permitting from the consumer.
People may be motivated to buy a solar generator "in case of utility outage" - they will be able to charge their I-Phone and plug in some lights, maybe refrigerator; however that is not what the average consumer uses these units for, they take them camping or to the beach and this is 'cool' and modern. Typical models we see are: Bluetti, Jackery, Ecoflow, others.

As a DIY consumer - I am seeing the drop in Cell prices as my opportunity to expand ESS, consider a Truck conversion, plan E-versions for some equipment I have that is currently gasoline, propane or diesel fueled.

Thank-you for @Battery_Kate - your replies have been informative, and appreciated.
 
No offence but I read one vague ambiguous avoiding response after another. You do realize that this is a DIY forum of individuals, small individual purchases and not "tens of thousands" of battery related businesses? I remain unconvinced of your claim, which you or ChatGPT also expanded to include non EV "businesses", which exaggerates and builds in the ability for avoiding proof, as have most of your or perhaps it is ChatGPT's vague replies. Seems like anything can be claimed as an explanation if there is no data or proof to back up the responses.
 
No offence but I read one vague ambiguous avoiding response after another. You do realize that this is a DIY forum of individuals, small individual purchases and not "tens of thousands" of battery related businesses? I remain unconvinced of your claim, which you or ChatGPT also expanded to include non EV "businesses", which exaggerates and builds in the ability for avoiding proof, as have most of your or perhaps it is ChatGPT's vague replies. Seems like anything can be claimed as an explanation if there is no data or proof to back up the responses.
What do you expect? Internal sales forecasts and accounting? I mean c'mon
 

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