48V system install into my home, a 27' travel trailer.

[thebeavesknees]

First things first:



Hi. I'm The Beave. I am an odd duck, which is especially strange since my nickname is an entirely different creature, but, here we are. This will be along post, since I have quite a lot of explaining to do about my situation, requirements, possible solutions, and some dry, self-deprecating humor.



Foundations:

1. I live in a 2022 Forest River Wildwood 22RBS, and I love it, but, it is not finished well at all. I am currently replacing all the really terrible outlets in this thing after a suggestion from my BIL (brother in law), who is more familiar with RV wiring, mentioned that most RV fires are caused by faulty wiring, and I can certainly say that is the case here. The main 30A inlet had a loose screw on the hot lead, and that could very well have led to a fire. I replaced the inlet socket, and checked the OEM outlets and found too many loose wires and generally detest "vampire" wiring systems.

2. My home is powered by a new run of wire to a pedestal that I plug in a typical RV power cable to. My BIL dug the trench and pulled the wires through conduit, all to spec, as far as I am aware. This being a 30A RV will play into some of my decisions later, so please bear that in mind.

3. I lucked into picking up 4 REC Alpha (not the extra fancy once, just the penultimate Alphas) 405W panels, which will cover most of the roof of my RV, aside from the center section around the (current) AC unit mounted as typical on the roof. I have already decided on how to physically mount these panels, and will start doing so withing the next week or three, pending some cooler weather, as I am NOT going to be up on a hot roof after working 10+ hours a day as welder. I get enough free sauna time at work.

4. I have decided on a 48V system as my home does not have the space that longer trailers do for separated utility bays. I have a single pass through storage, and possibly one other place to install a system. More on this later, as location has some fairly pertinent decisions on component selection.

5. I know enough about wiring and electricity to be dangerous. I know how to make proper connections. I have proper crimping tools. However, I do not know the NEC much all, and, in some cases where the NEC is inconvenient, I WILL ignore it. That is my choice, and if you want to rant at me about that, fine, but, I suggest that you don't as I do not care about nitpicky stuff so long as it is not a direct threat to my person or my home. (An example would be requirements for conductors to be in conduit from the inverter. I am not inclined to follow this as it would make routing exceptionally more difficult, and NOTHING else in this trailer is wired that way.) I WILL listen to advice that is meant to keep me safe and not roasted from a fire or electrocuted, though, I haven't died from electricity yet, and by all accounts I likely should have.



Needs:

1. I need to have a system that is robust enough to survive less than ideal utility power, for when I do eventually move from my current location. RV parks have notoriously terrible voltage issues. I do have s surge protector at the pedestal, and would upgrade to a smarter EMS when I do move, but I would like to not worry about killing an inverter with a brownout from 100 campers running all their ACs at once.

2. The system must be quiet enough to not be annoying. Right now, the overhead AC is doing its job, but my goodness is it loud doing it. Eventually, I will be installing a minisplit, but that is going to be discussed further later.

3. Intelligent bypass ability. I would very much like to prioritize the 1620W capacity (If I get 1kW input due to the angle/direction my trailer faces, I will be more than happy, so I don't think I am being unrealistic with that expectation) to charge batteries and run stuff during the day. Since I am the only occupant of the RV, the biggest loads are AC and heating. I use propane for cooking, heating, and hot water (for now), but would like to transition those loads to more efficient means, or by using any excess power from the panels during the day to minimize usage after dark. Some AIOs seem to have issues with this, but I do not know if this is just a settings issue or something that is a design/software issue.

4. The VOC of the panels I have is near 50V. Max current is 10.3A. If I want to run my panels in series, I will need at least 200V (so most likely a 250V) MPPT input. I can run the panels in a 2S2P configuration, and there may actually be some advantages to that since I will have to deal with some shading as the sun gets lower in the winter, but that is something I wish to discuss with people who know more than I do. If I did decide to run a 2S2P config, this would put the working voltage between 80-100V, and that is too low for many of the newer inverters on the market. This is something I expect to have a large effect on my choice of AIO.

5. I WILL be leaving the current 12V system intact. This will be with the knowledge that there will be some silly conversion losses in the system, but I have decided that is a perfectly acceptable compromise.



Dealbreakers:

1. I am NOT willing to convert my RV to 50A input. It was hard enough pulling 3 8g conductors through the conduit, and I am NOT digging that trench again to go larger. Also, 30A is perfectly adequate for nearly everything I expect to do in my home. If anything, I am willing to expand the system, space allowing, to 240V split phase with another AIO added to the system, IF I need more power. IF.

2. A very noisy system, especially if the system is installed under my bed (which flips up, sort of like a Murphy bed to access the storage, a feature I rather like), would likely drive me batty and that is a complete no-go.

3. My RV is not large, so all the possible places to install everything are small. If I can't fit a unit in either of the two spaces that I am considering, then I can't fit them in the RV. That being said, I have seen quite a few RV installs online that completely ignore the manufacturers spacing requirements. How small is too small? How much air is needed to cool these units adequately? I have briefly toyed with the idea of getting one of the water-proof, outdoor rated units and slapping that on the rear of the RV, but, I think that is probably a poor solution long term and I also detest the capacitive buttons that those units seem to be plagued with.

4. 120V input in mandatory. It is annoying that there are no (to my knowledge) units that can take 120V input, then invert it via the DC bus into 240V split phase. (Yes, I know the output would be completely limited by the input current, but you know what? It would run a mini-split just fine, as there are millions of cheap Chinesium VFDs that convert 120V single phase into 3ph to drive motors on things like mills, lathes, drill presses, etc.) That seems to knock out many of the bigger inverters like the LV6048.



Preferences:

1. Not needing a battery. I do not want to have to buy a $1500 battery just to turn the darn thing on and start using the MPPT to generate 120V. That's such an obvious design flaw when you have utility power available to provide a base. (Even if you didn't have utility or a generator, it would still be useful.)

2. Not requiring a very large inverter generator to charge batteries or support useful loads (let's say up to 1500W). I am aware that an inverter generator is pretty much required, but would also be willing to add in a separate battery charger to charge the batteries and get clean power through the inverter.

3. Not Victron price points. Victron doesn't have an AIO that I can see (for the US market), and I would rather not spend that kind of money and then have to wire a bunch of stuff together. I prefer the simplicity of AIOs, even at the risk of inferior quality/longevity.

4. Being able to flip a switch and bypassing the inverter in case it dies (and one of the reasons why I will not me messing with the intact power system of the trailer).

5. If I decide to get a 240V minisplit next year, being able to power that with minimal cost/hassle. I have been reading about people's experiences with 120V minisplits, and I am fairly happy with what I have read, but . . . My neighbor is an HVAC guy and he can get me silly good prices on Mitsubishis. (I know there are 120V Mitsus, but, they don't seem to have as efficient/good heating performance, and if that is the case, I think it might be worth it to set up a 240V system for that purpose.)

6. I dislike being a beta tester. Something more tried and true is usually my preference.

Splitting this post in half since I went over 10k characters . . . (Yes, I talk this much in person, too!)

 

[thebeavesknees]

Continued:
Ambivalences:

1. I have not bought anything other than the panels. I am not loyal to any brand. I am gun-shy on purchasing anything inverterish from EG4 based on the more prevalent issues that many people have had with the newer models that EG4 is releasing. I am also not particularly sold on Signature Solar as a seller.

2. I am willing to put in a lot of work to make this work, but I am not willing to spend money on things that aren't at least 90% of what I (think I) want.

3. The compact size of the 3kw units is appealing, but pending a few answers about small spaces, it may be possible to shoehorn two of the bigger 6KW units into place.



Placement Possibilities:

1. I have a closet in the bathroom that I think would make a good utility closet. It would need some work to make it more functional, but, this location can fit at least 1 3kw inverter, at least one rackmount battery, and all the ancillary connections. It will be tight, but I can make it work. I am thinking of this because that corner is where the main power inlet for the RV is located, and I could also add in a new solar gland pass through right above and into that space. (The RV is prewired for up to 400W of panels, which is hopelessly useless for my situation.) In this case, I could simply wire the inlet to the inverter, and then wire the inverter output directly back into the wiring for the RV and I am effectively done with the AC wiring. (Yes, yes, breakers and switches, too.)

2. The smaller opening of the pass through storage is big enough to fit rack mount batteries and 1/2 inverters. This would keep the 48V system as compact as possible. If I did add a second inverter, I could at a 50A socket and could effectively run either 50A or 30A depending on trailer park availability, or, I could output 240V as a backup power source in an emergency. This would be easier to do in this area of the trailer than the closet area. Placing the system here would only require me to run two pulls of 8-2 romex, though, that would be some work. 8-2 is probably less expensive than whatever I would have to run with option 1 and remotely located batteries.



Placement concerns:

1. I do want to eventually run two server rack batteries. I am not sure I can fit two deep in the closet space. It is not wide enough to set them side by side. If that is the case, I would have to move the batteries to the other end of the trailer in the pass through storage, and that would require a whackload of heavy copper wire in between the batteries and the inverter, which is very non-ideal, but . . . this would be better weight distribution for towing. (The closet is up against the rear wall of the trailer, so it is as far from the tongue as you can get without sitting them on the bumper!) Depending on the battery, I could possibly even go 3 high. 15kWh is a lot of power reserve for a little trailer.

2. I would only be able to install inverters horizontally, not vertically. Vertical is called for in every manual I've read. But, if we are ignoring those recommendations, then this location would likely be an easier install and slightly less expensive overall.



Unit considerations:

1. My top pick so far is the MPP 3048LV-MK. It is not too expensive, has most of the features I would like, is readily available, and seems to be reliable and well liked. It requires a battery, though. (I have thought of a workaround for this, by buying the cheapest 48V battery I can find on amazon, just to get the system up and running, then I can save up for server rack batteries.) These seem to be on clearance from MPP solar, so, I am concerned about future availability and parts if something happens to them. (More realistically, if I OOPS them into releasing the magic smoke . . . )

2. One of the 3kW Growatts. Some of them do not have the battery requirement. Many RV owners use them with great success. I really dislike the input sides of most of these. Is that a big deal, though? I am not sure. I am hoping that this is a one and mostly done kind of thing.

3. The EG4 3kW. I worry that it has the same issues as its bigger cousins, though looking through the forum, many people seem to like them, and with the higher input voltage for the MPPT, it seems like a good fit on paper. SS customer service (or lack thereof) is also a factor in the selection of this.

4. Any of the typical 6048 or 6548 units, IF they fit, and IF I can mount them horizontally without compromising the cooling too much in a small, enclosed space. The weight of the 6048s is likely too much, especially since I may eventually need two of them. That's just a lot. the 6548s just seem overkill if I end up with two to run split phase. I kinda wish that there were some 4kW units. I saw that there used to be 5kW units, but they have been discontinued.



Other considerations:

1. Ideally, I would like the inverter to communicate at least SOC from the batteries. The simple choice is EG4. Not the cheapest, but if the 3kW unit is fine, then, it is the easiest out of all the other combos that I have seen.

2. I REALLY like the formfactor of the new Ruixu rackmounts. They are much slimmer than the EG4s or others (3U vs 4-5U), and I can easily stack 3 of those in my pass through storage. No clue if they would be able to chat with the EG4 inverters, so, I lean back towards the MPP 3048.



If you, stalwart reader, have made it through this massive missive, I applaud you! Would you please share any thoughts you have on my situation? I am very open to criticism as long as it comes from a place of helpfulness, especially about the enclosed volume situation I am faced with and the location of my system. If you have any minisplit experience you'd like to share, please do! I would love to not hear a loud whooshing rumble over everything I do when the AC is on, and also not use as much power to cool the place off. That would make my already pleasant living situation all the more enjoyable.



Thank you for your time.



Matt, AKA The Beave

 

[Rednecktek]

Wow! And I thought my Blurb! was long!

Parsing, please hold...

 

[Rednecktek]

OK, as I dig through it I see a few things that jiggle my brain. Nothing here is really raising any flags, just throwing some ideas out there to chew on.

I was going to recommend the MPP or Growatt AIO's as they have a lower voltage requirement and for years they have "Just Worked" for most people. One thing I would HIGHLY recommend with ANY unit is to be willing to open them up and replace the fans with some SilentX or Noctua fans. They're MUCH quieter.

The LV6048 is just 2 of the 3048's inside the same box giving you 240v split phase. That might be a good upgrade option later when you need 240v. It's also only about 50% larger than a 3048 which saves space. Check out the Additional Specs tab at Watts247 and see how well that'll fit. It sounds like the 240v is only needed if you get a 240v AirCon. Is 12k BTU not enough? A 48v AirCon might be the smarter way to go and avoid the whole 240v split phase mess.

Another concern is that with a 30a plug I'm guessing you don't have a 50a breaker box? I ask because a 50a breaker box has 2 separate bus bars that are just jumpered when you put a 30a dogbone on it whereas a 30a breaker panel only has 1 bus bar which means that your 2nd line would have nowhere in your primary power system to go.

How interested would you be into DIY'ing a battery with larger cells? Rather than getting 3x rackmount batteries, just make a 300Ah battery pack. Just an option.

One thing you're going to need to figure out on the wiring is how to disconnect the battery charger when you're running on the inverter. The last thing you want to do is use the batteries to feed the inverter to charge the batteries to feed the inverter that's charging the batteries...

You're going to want to get a separate 48v charger involved, AIO's are notoriously picky about AC input, a basic battery charger usually is a LOT more forgiving. Something like the EG4 Charger or similar.

Anything involving generating heat (heaters, stoves, etc) is really bad as they eat batteries alive! Stick with propane as much as you can. A 120v fridge is one of the few exceptions I can think of.

Do you have a shower in that bathroom? Hot steam and electronics are a BAD combination.

You'll want something with a battery. The battery-less ones tend to need really high voltages and if the sun isn't out you're in the dark.

If you're buying in bulk, wire isn't all that bad. Realistically you could mount a utility box on the tongue and run wire back to the inverter under the bed easily enough. If your trailer is too small to have all the compartments you're probably only looking at going up 1 size at worst. The silicone wire is rated really high compared to the Romex and household stuff you're used to. The BlueSea chart shows 4AWG good up to 20ft for 60a @ 3% loss and that's not even fancy stuff.

Just give up now on battery to inverter communication, it pretty much only seems to work with same-brand products so getting a Brand-X inverter to talk to a Brand-Y battery takes some hoop jumping to make work. Just get a proper shunt installed, stick the monitor wherever you want, and never have to poke the inverter or batteries AND get accurate measurements.

So it sounds like you've got a pretty good idea of what you're wanting to happen. All of the things I mentioned are just things to noodle out and think about so you don't end up screwing yourself later. ?

 

[thebeavesknees]

OK, as I dig through it I see a few things that jiggle my brain. Nothing here is really raising any flags, just throwing some ideas out there to chew on.

Thanks! That's exactly what I'm here for!

I was going to recommend the MPP or Growatt AIO's as they have a lower voltage requirement and for years they have "Just Worked" for most people. One thing I would HIGHLY recommend with ANY unit is to be willing to open them up and replace the fans with some SilentX or Noctua fans. They're MUCH quieter.

My concerns with this is that it would technically be breaking the warranty and many quieter designs do not flow as much as their noisier counterparts, which would be bad in a small space. I'm sure there is a happy medium, so, thank you for the suggestion.

The LV6048 is just 2 of the 3048's inside the same box giving you 240v split phase. That might be a good upgrade option later when you need 240v. It's also only about 50% larger than a 3048 which saves space. Check out the Additional Specs tab at Watts247 and see how well that'll fit. It sounds like the 240v is only needed if you get a 240v AirCon. Is 12k BTU not enough? A 48v AirCon might be the smarter way to go and avoid the whole 240v split phase mess.

So, here's where my ignorance is going to show: the 6048 can't do 240V output without 240V input, at least according to my reading of how it should be installed, and would still require a second unit to produce proper 240V split phase. Since I do not want to have to require a 240V input, this seems like the wrong approach. I may start another thread asking about this, as I would very much like to be wrong about this.

Another concern is that with a 30a plug I'm guessing you don't have a 50a breaker box? I ask because a 50a breaker box has 2 separate bus bars that are just jumpered when you put a 30a dogbone on it whereas a 30a breaker panel only has 1 bus bar which means that your 2nd line would have nowhere in your primary power system to go.

Correct. 30A breaker box. However, if I did go with dual units, I could eventually convert to a 50A breaker box, and if I needed to use a 30A input, I could change the inverters to run parallel instead, and limit the inlet current so I don't overload the 30A service. (I'm not sure I could do that, anyway.)

How interested would you be into DIY'ing a battery with larger cells? Rather than getting 3x rackmount batteries, just make a 300Ah battery pack. Just an option.

It's a possibility. But, having a modular, expandable system is very appealing at this point. I'm very capable of doing so, and it would be cheaper, but, it's also quite a large outlay up front, with no warranties expressed or implied. Heh

One thing you're going to need to figure out on the wiring is how to disconnect the battery charger when you're running on the inverter. The last thing you want to do is use the batteries to feed the inverter to charge the batteries to feed the inverter that's charging the batteries...

Nope. The converter will be powered as normal, since I will be keeping the 12V system intact. This would eliminate the need for any additional DC-DC 12V conversion, and if I need to disconnect the inverters, will allow everything necessary to function. (I have a 12V compressor fridge that's electric only, which is kind of what started this whole mess, since I wanted to isn't a battery backup for the occasional power outages we get a few times a year. Food is expensive and I thought it would be worth spending some time and money to not spoil everything in my fridge if the power has an oopsie.) Anyway... The 48V system will operate the 120V system as normal, which will power the converter to charge the 12V system, so there will be no feedback loop, but there will be some conversion losses that I consider acceptable for a simpler and more versatile system (to me).

You're going to want to get a separate 48v charger involved, AIO's are notoriously picky about AC input, a basic battery charger usually is a LOT more forgiving. Something like the EG4 Charger or similar.

That really does seem to be the best way to go if I anticipate having to run a generator. I'll work that into my layout and wiring.

Anything involving generating heat (heaters, stoves, etc) is really bad as they eat batteries alive! Stick with propane as much as you can. A 120v fridge is one of the few exceptions I can think of.

I thought I was a bit more clear about what I was trying to say. I mention the big resistive loads only in the context of using any excess solar production after batteries are topped off through solar. Why not heat the water "for free" instead of using propane, if I have enough sun and power? For the foreseeable future, I'll be sticking with propane.

Do you have a shower in that bathroom? Hot steam and electronics are a BAD combination.

I do. A few points:
1. I have a dehumidifier running 24/7.
2. When the AC is running, the humidity is sitting at about 31% (too low, actually).
3. I vent the bathroom when I shower unless it's heavily precipitating, and am also going to upgrade the bathroom vent fan.
4. When I do vent the bathroom while showering, the mirror barely fogs up, and by the time I'm done with toweling myself off, the mirror is clear.
5. I was planning to seal the closet with a better sealing door, door seals, and a much more substantial door lock, which feeds back into my small enclosed volume concern.

You'll want something with a battery. The battery-less ones tend to need really high voltages and if the sun isn't out you're in the dark.

That's a very fair point. I'll disregard the requirement for that feature in my decision. Thank you!

If you're buying in bulk, wire isn't all that bad. Realistically you could mount a utility box on the tongue and run wire back to the inverter under the bed easily enough. If your trailer is too small to have all the compartments you're probably only looking at going up 1 size at worst. The silicone wire is rated really high compared to the Romex and household stuff you're used to. The BlueSea chart shows 4AWG good up to 20ft for 60a @ 3% loss and that's not even fancy stuff.

Most of my tongue is occupied. There's the 2 propane tanks, and not to eventually I'll have a double battery box for a pair or lead acid batteries to run the 12V system. The front of the trailer has a pretty good curve to it, so even getting to the current single battery box is annoying.

I would need to run about 25ft of wire, but, 3% isn't bad for 20ft. Still, that's 100ft total of wire (or 150ft if I do cram 3 batteries into storage) to a busbar near the inverter. It's entirely possible, just a lot of copper and less "efficient" in terms of work and cost.

Just give up now on battery to inverter communication, it pretty much only seems to work with same-brand products so getting a Brand-X inverter to talk to a Brand-Y battery takes some hoop jumping to make work. Just get a proper shunt installed, stick the monitor wherever you want, and never have to poke the inverter or batteries AND get accurate measurements.

Man, that sucks. Why can't the industry decide on a standard (based on canbus, please!) set of protocols? It would be really nice to have a set of standard parameters that could be read from any battery, while still being flexible enough for companies to use extended parameters for custom functions, much like OBD standards for vehicles.

So it sounds like you've got a pretty good idea of what you're wanting to happen. All of the things I mentioned are just things to noodle out and think about so you don't end up screwing yourself later. ?

Well, you saying this means that most of what I've thought it plausible, or you are cracked in the head in a similar way. LOL!

I really do appreciate the time you took to get through all this, and for offering some well considered advice. Things are a bit clearer, but I do need to seek out some more people who have experience with RV installs in small spaces and see if they caused any issues with their equipment.

Thanks again!

 

[Rednecktek]

Thanks! That's exactly what I'm here for!

Happy to help.

My concerns with this is that it would technically be breaking the warranty and many quieter designs do not flow as much as their noisier counterparts, which would be bad in a small space. I'm sure there is a happy medium, so, thank you for the suggestion.

After a couple nights you'll change your mind. Noctua is about the best fan out there with Silent-X coming in second for airflow per decibel. You can always keep the old fans in a box if something goes wrong and you need to return it.

So, here's where my ignorance is going to show: the 6048 can't do 240V output without 240V input, at least according to my reading of how it should be installed, and would still require a second unit to produce proper 240V split phase. Since I do not want to have to require a 240V input, this seems like the wrong approach. I may start another thread asking about this, as I would very much like to be wrong about this.

Will had the same problem a couple years ago, found a neat workaround at about 7min into the video.

Correct. 30A breaker box. However, if I did go with dual units, I could eventually convert to a 50A breaker box, and if I needed to use a 30A input, I could change the inverters to run parallel instead, and limit the inlet current so I don't overload the 30A service. (I'm not sure I could do that, anyway.)

If you feel up to it go for it! A 3Kw inverter only puts out 27a so no worries there.

It's a possibility. But, having a modular, expandable system is very appealing at this point. I'm very capable of doing so, and it would be cheaper, but, it's also quite a large outlay up front, with no warranties expressed or implied. Heh

True enough. I'm running into the same issue building a 7.2Kwh battery for my camp right now.

Nope. The converter will be powered as normal, since I will be keeping the 12V system intact. This would eliminate the need for any additional DC-DC 12V conversion, and if I need to disconnect the inverters, will allow everything necessary to function. (I have a 12V compressor fridge that's electric only, which is kind of what started this whole mess, since I wanted to isn't a battery backup for the occasional power outages we get a few times a year. Food is expensive and I thought it would be worth spending some time and money to not spoil everything in my fridge if the power has an oopsie.) Anyway... The 48V system will operate the 120V system as normal, which will power the converter to charge the 12V system, so there will be no feedback loop, but there will be some conversion losses that I consider acceptable for a simpler and more versatile system (to me).

Aaahh, ok.

That really does seem to be the best way to go if I anticipate having to run a generator. I'll work that into my layout and wiring.

Yeah, dealing with dirty power is one major downside to AIOs unfortunately.

I thought I was a bit more clear about what I was trying to say. I mention the big resistive loads only in the context of using any excess solar production after batteries are topped off through solar. Why not heat the water "for free" instead of using propane, if I have enough sun and power? For the foreseeable future, I'll be sticking with propane.

Aaahhh, I see. That makes sense! So a dump load type setup to run a heating element when the batteries are topped off.

I do. A few points:
1. I have a dehumidifier running 24/7.
2. When the AC is running, the humidity is sitting at about 31% (too low, actually).
3. I vent the bathroom when I shower unless it's heavily precipitating, and am also going to upgrade the bathroom vent fan.
4. When I do vent the bathroom while showering, the mirror barely fogs up, and by the time I'm done with toweling myself off, the mirror is clear.
5. I was planning to seal the closet with a better sealing door, door seals, and a much more substantial door lock, which feeds back into my small enclosed volume concern.

Kewl, just making sure you had thought about that.

That's a very fair point. I'll disregard the requirement for that feature in my decision. Thank you!

It'll just make life sooooo much easier. Just in case you were giving it a 2nd thought:

Most of my tongue is occupied. There's the 2 propane tanks, and not to eventually I'll have a double battery box for a pair or lead acid batteries to run the 12V system. The front of the trailer has a pretty good curve to it, so even getting to the current single battery box is annoying.

Fair enough. My main thought being that you can really stick things anywhere they fit. Glad to see you thinking about that ahead of time.

I would need to run about 25ft of wire, but, 3% isn't bad for 20ft. Still, that's 100ft total of wire (or 150ft if I do cram 3 batteries into storage) to a busbar near the inverter. It's entirely possible, just a lot of copper and less "efficient" in terms of work and cost.

Put the bus bar at the batteries, then it's just a couple feet from each battery to the bus bar and a single run to the other side of the state.

Man, that sucks. Why can't the industry decide on a standard (based on canbus, please!) set of protocols? It would be really nice to have a set of standard parameters that could be read from any battery, while still being flexible enough for companies to use extended parameters for custom functions, much like OBD standards for vehicles.

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from! ? As for your OBD analogy, have you compared error numbers between makes? The alarm number I have on my truck is COMPLETELY different from the same alarm number for my dad's van.

Well, you saying this means that most of what I've thought it plausible, or you are cracked in the head in a similar way. LOL!

Yes. And... ummm... yes.

I really do appreciate the time you took to get through all this, and for offering some well considered advice. Things are a bit clearer, but I do need to seek out some more people who have experience with RV installs in small spaces and see if they caused any issues with their equipment.

Thanks again!

Any time. We're here to help. Physics is pretty unforgiving sadly.

 

[thebeavesknees]

Happy to help.

Again, thank you!

After a couple nights you'll change your mind. Noctua is about the best fan out there with Silent-X coming in second for airflow per decibel. You can always keep the old fans in a box if something goes wrong and you need to return it.

True, but, that would require opening the unit up. That usually voids a warranty, does it not?

Will had the same problem a couple years ago, found a neat workaround at about 7min into the video.

So, I had seen that video. But...

120V AC Input / 240V AC Output with LV6840

Greetings… Using an LV6048 with EG4-LL 48v batteries, Can I charge the batteries using 120v with utility using AC input, but output 240v through the AC Output ports with power from the batteries/utility? If so, does anyone know the settings? I’ve tried just about every combination in the...

diysolarforum.com

This person had issues trying to do that. It might have been his settings and wiring, though.

Will does not state specifically that the unit outputs 240V split phase, at least not to my recollection. I'll watch the video again.



Page 8 in the manual clearly shows that L1 and L2 are supposed to be hooked up, implying that 240V is required. Unless there's some other place in the manual that is stating about the jumper.

Dangit. This is even more annoying:
The output is implying that it can do L1-N-L2 output, which should be 240V split phase... I wish this was made clear and I might ask in another forum section about this.

If you feel up to it go for it! A 3Kw inverter only puts out 27a so no worries there.

Yup! It's matched up really well, even if the technical input rating for the whole RV is 3600W (120Vx30A).

True enough. I'm running into the same issue building a 7.2Kwh battery for my camp right now.

I might be persuaded, if the costs turn out to be less expensive, to build my own after the first rackmount gets installed. Those RUIXU batteries are pretty slick...

Aaahh, ok.

Yeah, dealing with dirty power is one major downside to AIOs unfortunately.

Needing a separate charger is a bit annoying, but, it's really not the end of the world especially if it means I can charge from anything, even really bad RV Park power. That would keep my inverter safer, anyway, which is pretty great.

Aaahhh, I see. That makes sense! So a dump load type setup to run a heating element when the batteries are topped off.

Yes! Though I'm not sure how I'd automate that, yet. It's a bit annoying that the switch for the electric heating element isn't remotely mounted. I would consider putting that on a relay, if I child work it out, then... Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Focus on the solar install and inverter selection... LOL

Kewl, just making sure you had thought about that.

Thank you!

It'll just make life sooooo much easier. Just in case you were giving it a 2nd thought:

Fair enough. My main thought being that you can really stick things anywhere they fit. Glad to see you thinking about that ahead of time.

More thought at the outset, less pain at the wallet. Usually. Hopefully. Maybe. Heh.

Put the bus bar at the batteries, then it's just a couple feet from each battery to the bus bar and a single run to the other side of the state.

If the batteries are all in one spot, for sure.

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from! ? As for your OBD analogy, have you compared error numbers between makes? The alarm number I have on my truck is COMPLETELY different from the same alarm number for my dad's van.

Ah, but they are read and reported the same way: though a standardized OBDII pretty and all engine parameters are common, and many, many fault codes are common between all manufacturers. There are big differences between gasoline and diesel engine reporting, though, but that's a whole other issue...

Yes. And... ummm... yes.

Huzzah!

Any time. We're here to help. Physics is pretty unforgiving sadly.

True, but... There's quite a lot of latitude once you get familiar with systems.

Thanks again!

 

[Mattb4]

TLDR My only comment is about living in a 27ft trailer as a long term home. Not the best choice if you have any other options. All the work and money you pour into it is akin to lipstick on a pig. It won't make it pretty.

 

[thebeavesknees]

TLDR My only comment is about living in a 27ft trailer as a long term home. Not the best choice if you have any other options. All the work and money you pour into it is akin to lipstick on a pig. It won't make it pretty.

That's fair. And it is very much so lipstick on a pig, but, it's my pig and it's cheap enough that I'm saving for my own land to build a nice, efficient, cozy home. It's a means to an end, not, the end of my means. Overall, I like it. More than I expected to, in fact. I do wish I could have gotten a 26RBS, but, that wasn't available at the time I needed a place to live in this crazy rental market. So, yes, it's a bit silly, but I consider this practice for later on when I build my own home. So, it's fine and fun, even if it's a bit nutty. LOL.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it.

 

[Mattb4]

... It's a means to an end, not, the end of my means. Overall, I like it. ...

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it.

Which is the important thing. However if it is a temporary step towards your future place it is best to keep in mind how you alter it and if by doing so you lose value.

Sorry if my response was not geared to the entirety of your post. Since it seemed to be a mission statement and overall big picture it was hard to pick out any particular question.

 

[thebeavesknees]

Which is the important thing. However if it is a temporary step towards your future place it is best to keep in mind how you alter it and if by doing so you lose value.

Sorry if my response was not geared to the entirety of your post. Since it seemed to be a mission statement and overall big picture it was hard to pick out any particular question.

Temporary, as in 3-5 years. Maybe less if I keep working boatloads of OT when avaliable. I know it's not ideal, but, it's fine, and, I'd rather make my mistakes with this than a permanent home. And, I like projects like this so, I consider it a weird firm if entertainment as well.

You don't need to apologize for that at all! It is a mission statement. I do have more particular equipment questions after my conversation with Rednecktek. I will be asking much more succinct questions in the various (hopefully) appropriate sub-forums.

 

[G00SE]

Awesome post.
A couple of initial thoughts:
I would be cautious on battery weight in rear pass thru pending on how much leeway you currently have on tongue weight and distribution. Batteries are hefty. It may work great. For me it would as my trailer is very tongue heavy. But not everyone is in that boat. Just wanted to highlight a point of potential concern.

I would use the eg4 chargeverter for hooking the generator up to charge batteries.

I live in a 36ft RV and have for a year while we build our home.

Last winter when the temps dropped, we were spending 200 a month on propane. We also ran 2 electric fireplace space heaters during this time.

My bosses boss at work lives in a 5th wheel and spends about 250 a month on propane in winter as well

You mention a lack of humidity in another reply, but in the winter and when cooking that propane will increase humidity.
As you will find out over time, your trailer really hates moisture, and was not provided a stellar way to avoid it.
I have the same manufacturer RV. I will run 3 dehumidifiers before I let humidity get above 25% again. I ripped out enough plywood from mold once.

I understand everyone has different needs, but I would seriously reconsider the need for 240v and/or split phase. I have a 50a unit and still have no need.

Victron does sell a US spec AIO. It is the Victron Phoenix 48/1200. Unfortunately it doesn’t have stellar output specs, but it is under 500 dollars.

The mini splits are awesome, but an RV retrofit can be a pain. Consider the RecPro quiet heat pump AC.
There is a 10 decibel sound loss to be had vs the factory unit. It also provides heat in cold weather helping to not rely on propane as much.
It truly is an amazing audible difference.
It also has a much lower surge and running wattage isn’t all that bad either. We paid 1300 each for ours.

I don’t really have any useful inverter suggestions but am happy to follow your thread and see how it progresses!

Welcome

 

[thebeavesknees]

Awesome post.

Thanks. I'm biased, but I think so, too! LOL!

A couple of initial thoughts:
I would be cautious on battery weight in rear pass thru pending on how much leeway you currently have on tongue weight and distribution. Batteries are hefty. It may work great. For me it would as my trailer is very tongue heavy. But not everyone is in that boat. Just wanted to highlight a point of potential concern.

I've considered this. I do not move much. So, for longer trips, an advantage of rack mount batteries is that I can easily and safely move them for transport. My trailer was very easy on the tongue weight, but... Not anymore. It's an issue that I'm aware of and will correct bettor traveling, like a good noodle.

I would use the eg4 chargeverter for hooking the generator up to charge batteries.

Yup. That's pretty much decided on already.

I live in a 36ft RV and have for a year while we build our home.

Gosh, that's 9 feet more. That would feel like a palace to me. LOL

Last winter when the temps dropped, we were spending 200 a month on propane. We also ran 2 electric fireplace space heaters during this time.

I got my trailer in March of this year, so I haven't done a whole year in it, but, it was below freezing most nights for a few weeks, so I did get a decent preview of how much propane I'll use.

Factors in my case:
I work 5 days a week, usually at least 10-11 hours a day. That's idle time and the t-stat gets set to 55 for the propane furnace and I set the electric fire place on low and the lowest temp setting (62). I don't need the place to be warm enough to run around nekkid when it's cold, so, I usually keep the t-stat set to 65. The supplemental electric heat from the "fireplace" really does a great job warming up the trailer, and the furnace rarely cycles until nightfall. I used barely more than 40lbs of propane for that month, though I expect that might double if it gets really cold. I get my refills done at BJs, and I can't see it being more than $100/mo for my needs. Even at $200/mo, my whole package is still cheaper than renting in my area.

My bosses boss at work lives in a 5th wheel and spends about 250 a month on propane in winter as well

You mention a lack of humidity in another reply, but in the winter and when cooking that propane will increase humidity.
As you will find out over time, your trailer really hates moisture, and was not provided a stellar way to avoid it.
I have the same manufacturer RV. I will run 3 dehumidifiers before I let humidity get above 25% again. I ripped out enough plywood from mold once.

I know I saw 60% humidity when it was colder, and I expected to get another small dehumidifier or two, so I'm aware that moisture is really bad inside the trailer. I am good about using my vent fan when, even if it's annoyingly loud. I am also considering using an induction cook top. (I only use enamel steel or cast iron to cook these days.) That will help cut down on propane and moisture!

I understand everyone has different needs, but I would seriously reconsider the need for 240v and/or split phase. I have a 50a unit and still have no need.

This really will be determined by the minisplit I choose.

Victron does sell a US spec AIO. It is the Victron Phoenix 48/1200. Unfortunately it doesn’t have stellar output specs, but it is under 500 dollars.

That's almost tempting enough if they are gangable... I hadn't seen that model. Thank you.

The mini splits are awesome, but an RV retrofit can be a pain. Consider the RecPro quiet heat pump AC.
There is a 10 decibel sound loss to be had vs the factory unit. It also provides heat in cold weather helping to not rely on propane as much.
It truly is an amazing audible difference.
It also has a much lower surge and running wattage isn’t all that bad either. We paid 1300 each for ours.

I'll hand to look into that! 10dB down is huge!

I don’t really have any useful inverter suggestions but am happy to follow your thread and see how it progresses!

Welcome

Thanks for having me! You've been a great addition to this discussion and I appreciate your time and experience in these things!

 

[G00SE]

@thebeavesknees 9 more feet, but 3 more people and a dog ?
We too once thought of it as a palace. Then sharing the bathroom began hahahaha

Oh I almost forgot. Victron does sell a couple of higher wattage all in ones. They are all EU spec (230) but can be programmed to 60hz and 240.
They make them anywhere from 1200kva to 6000kva. You’d need to run a transformer to generate split phase and the larger ones such as the easy solar cost more like 2k, but figured I would throw that out there

 

[thebeavesknees]

@thebeavesknees 9 more feet, but 3 more people and a dog ?
We too once thought of it as a palace. Then sharing the bathroom began hahahaha

I wondered about that... One potty is not great for any more than 1 person in a living space. Heck x the small house I've been designing for me has 3 toilets (and a urinal, because I want to pee standing up, dangit!). That's definitely right living quarters, but, I do hope that your home, once ready, will be all that you could every hope for fit your family!

 

[G00SE]

Speaking of toilets. And I hate that it’s more rv stuff and not solar stuff but check your dometic toilet. My rv is a 2019 so it still had the 300 model which is prone to leak at the seal and cause an awful stench.
Warranty didn’t care so we swapped it with a porcelain dometic 310 as a direct swap

Hopefully u saw my ninja edit in the reply above about additional Victron inverter options

 

[thebeavesknees]

Speaking of toilets. And I hate that it’s more rv stuff and not solar stuff but check your dometic toilet. My rv is a 2019 so it still had the 300 model which is prone to leak at the seal and cause an awful stench.
Warranty didn’t care so we swapped it with a porcelain dometic 310 as a direct swap

Hopefully u saw my ninja edit in the reply above about additional Victron inverter options

I'm pretty sure mine is a 310,but I'll need to double check.

Let's see... Ah, I don't really want to mess with a transformer unless it's in the inverter, especially if the prices are higher Thad a comparable AIO.

 

[G00SE]

I'm pretty sure mine is a 310,but I'll need to double check.

Let's see... The a Victron Phoenix at a low 1200W... Is that the only one?

They make EU spec all in ones. Only sold as 230v 50hz. They can be changed (supported by manual) to 60hz 240v. They have units up to 6kva capacity.
The easy solar is one line they have.

You’d need a transformer to generate split phase but would have a neat set up

 

[thebeavesknees]

They make EU spec all in ones. Only sold as 230v 50hz. They can be changed (supported by manual) to 60hz 240v. They have units up to 6kva capacity.
The easy solar is one line they have.

You’d need a transformer to generate split phase but would have a neat set up

That's not bad, but, also not great. Good to know! Thanks.

 

[thebeavesknees]

Update:

I sent watts247 an email asking for some clarifications on two of their units that I am interested in: the 3048LV-MK and the LV6048. There is a deal going on with 2 of the 3048s that is very appealing in terms of redundancy, but it would take up more space than a single 6048. If both can do what I want, then, I will have to make some decisions as to how much space I want to take up vs. how much redundancy I wish to have. Two 6048s is just right out, even if I purchased a second one in the future.

I also ordered a few things to test how to mount the panels to the roof of my RV. I'll be posting about that when parts come in and I have time to fiddlefart around after work.

It's all so new and exciting, so, you old hats might roll your eyes a bit, but, that is fine, too. LOL!

I hope you have had a good weekend and are looking forward to something good this week!