600W Solar with all-in-one Alternator Charging?

[ERR]

Hi, I'd like to use the system outlined by Will with the Renogy all-in-one DC to DC/MPP system with 600W of solar but he warns:

"This charger can handle 600 watts of solar power no problem, but stick with 400 watts so that the mc4 wires and adapters current limitations are not exceeded."

Are there wires or adapters with proper current limits out there to accommodate 600W?

Thanks

 

[yodamota]

Welcome to the forum!

can you post the spec on this renogy all in one?

 

[Dave in AZ]

Hi, I'd like to use the system outlined by Will with the Renogy all-in-one DC to DC/MPP system with 600W of solar but he warns:

"This charger can handle 600 watts of solar power no problem, but stick with 400 watts so that the mc4 wires and adapters current limitations are not exceeded."

Are there wires or adapters with proper current limits out there to accommodate 600W?

Thanks

I looked, but Will has so many videos I cant find that video or exact renogy part. Please provide a link to his video or page you are talking about, and the device you're talking about.

The MC4 is limited to 30A. Whatever wire you use should be at or less ampacity than its connectors, say 30A, which means AWG 10 or 8 for runs over 15ft.

You should easily be able to find solar panels for 600W and wire them to stay within 30A.
Rich solar 200W panels, 5.8A and 45 Voc. 3 in parallel is 45voc, 23.4A.

Bouge RV 300W panels, 18.9A, 20.8voc.
2 in series, 18.9A, 42voc.

The Problem is finding a charge controller that can take 600W, and also a larger voltage range. You need a 50A controller as the 30A ones just do 400W. The Renogy ones have narrow voltage ranges, 30v max or something.

Victron mppt 150/45 will do 150voc, 45A or 650W. It isn't a combo starter battery dc to dc also though. You may have to split the mppt and dc dc from car to two separate functions.

 

[mikefitz]

Renogy all-in-one DC to DC/MPP

There are two versions available, the original was limited to 25 volts solar input, requiring '12v' panels wired in parallel. The latest version has a 50 volt Input limit allowing greater flexibility In panel type and wiring of panels. Both versions are on sale so take care in ordering.

In general a quality solar controler, Victron Smart range recomended, will outperform a dual function unit with better solar yield and has the additional advantages of, a) high solar input voltage, 100 or 150, b) has user programmable charge settings, c) with the Victron you have access to current status and the past 30 days of performance via the phone app.

Having a seperate DC to DC and a seperate solar charger is a more reliable set up. Whilst attractive pricing and agressive advertising 'push' Renogy product, the reliability and after sale support is poor.

A factor that's often overlooked is that default charge settings on many units may not be ideal for charging batteries. Where you have easy user control of charge perameters, setting up ideal charge profiles is an advantage.

 

[fratermus]

The Problem is finding a charge controller that can take 600W, and also a larger voltage range. You need a 50A controller as the 30A ones just do 400W. The Renogy ones have narrow voltage ranges, 30v max or something.

OP appears to be talking about the DCC50S, which has a 25v input limit.

Renogy has released a new version (RBC2125DS, UK and Aus so far) that claims to accept 50v, but who knows when that will show up in the US for actual purchase. Off the top of my head there a few 50A with solar input limits in the 50v range: Kisae, SRNE, Rich Solar, and Ring.

 

[ERR]

Thanks for the replies! Will states that because the input voltage is 25V, the solar panels need to be wired in parallel. The link on Will's site is for: DCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

However I noticed that it looks like there is a 50A version available on amazon. Here is the specs for the 30A:

• System Voltage: 12VDC
• Battery Voltage Range: 9-16VDC
• Battery Type: SLA, GEL, FLD, LI, USER
• Backup Battery Charging Mode: MPPT
• Charging Efficiency: Up to 97%
• Maximum Charging Current: 30A (15A Alternator / 15A PV)
• Maximum Solar Input Power: 400W
• Max. Solar Input Voltage: 25V

Here is the specs for the 50A:

Charging Efficiency	Up to 97%
Max. Solar Input Power	660W @ 50A
Max. Alternator Input Power	660W @ 50A
Self-consumption	60mA
Temperature Compensation	-3mV/C/2V
Operating Temperature Range	-31°F - 149°F

System Voltage	12VDC
Maximum Charging Current	50A
Service Battery Charging Mode	MPPT
Max. Solar Input Voltage	25V
Traditional Alternator Input	13.2-16VDC
Smart Alternator(Euro 6)	12-16VDC
Battery voltage Range	9-16VDC
Battery Types	SLD, GEL, FLD, LI,USER

 

[ERR]

Renogy has released a new version (RBC2125DS, UK and Aus so far) that claims to accept 50v, but who knows when that will show up in the US for actual purchase. Off the top of my head there a few 50A with solar input limits in the 50v range: Kisae, SRNE, Rich Solar, and Ring.

Looks like this is available on the renogy site? Here are the specs:

System Voltage: 12V/24V - 12V/24V

Solar Input Voltage: 50 VDC

Output Voltage: 9-16 VDC

Alternator Input: 13.5-16 VDC

Maximum Output Current Rating: 50A

Output Power: 720W

Battery Types: AGM/SLD , GEL ,FLD ,LI,USER

Input Fuse Rating: 75A-100A

Output Fuse Rating: 75A-100A

Charging Efficiency: 94%

Temperature Compensation: -3mV / ℃ / 2V (Non-Lithium) and 0mV / ℃ / 2V; no compensation (Lithium)

Idle Power Consumption: ＜100mA

 

[RV8R]

Thanks for the replies! Will states that because the input voltage is 25V, the solar panels need to be wired in parallel. The link on Will's site is for: DCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

However I noticed that it looks like there is a 50A version available on amazon. Here is the specs for the 30A:

• System Voltage: 12VDC
• Battery Voltage Range: 9-16VDC
• Battery Type: SLA, GEL, FLD, LI, USER
• Backup Battery Charging Mode: MPPT
• Charging Efficiency: Up to 97%
• Maximum Charging Current: 30A (15A Alternator / 15A PV)
• Maximum Solar Input Power: 400W
• Max. Solar Input Voltage: 25V

Here is the specs for the 50A:

Charging Efficiency	Up to 97%
Max. Solar Input Power	660W @ 50A
Max. Alternator Input Power	660W @ 50A
Self-consumption	60mA
Temperature Compensation	-3mV/C/2V
Operating Temperature Range	-31°F - 149°F

System Voltage	12VDC
Maximum Charging Current	50A
Service Battery Charging Mode	MPPT
Max. Solar Input Voltage	25V
Traditional Alternator Input	13.2-16VDC
Smart Alternator(Euro 6)	12-16VDC
Battery voltage Range	9-16VDC
Battery Types	SLD, GEL, FLD, LI,USER

Here is the bottleneck;






Kisae Specs;

 

[Tomthumb62]

Having a seperate DC to DC and a seperate solar charger is a more reliable set up. Whilst attractive pricing and agressive advertising 'push' Renogy product, the reliability and after sale support is poor.

Agreed. @ERR , I first had a whole Renogy setup. Long story short, it was inefficient, frustrating to use and headache inducing customer support. I replaced the charge controller and inverter with Victron models and my goodness, it’s a night and day difference. I also get 15-30% more solar production with the Victron charge controller compared to the Renogy one. Same panels and wiring, only thing that changed was the charge controller.

I have not tried the combo dcdc/mppt unit from Renogy, but if it’s designed as poorly as their other products, I’d run from that. Their pricing was once attractive, now you couldn’t pay me enough to use their stuff.

Also, the Victron smart solar 100/30 MPPT is now actually cheaper than the Renogy Rover 30A MPPT. Because the Renogy requires a $30 Bluetooth dongle to properly program it, whereas the Victron has Bluetooth built in. The ease of use of both the device and the Bluetooth app are way better with the Victron.

Finally, if you do go with separate devices, do you intend to have a 120v AC charger as well? If so, it can be cheaper to buy a cheap low wattage inverter to power that AC charger from your vehicle’s starter battery, instead of a DC-DC charger. The latter requires thick expensive wiring if you’re 12v. The former only requires a short run of wiring to the inverter, then regular 12-14AWG wiring to your AC charger. Put a switch in the cab to turn on or off the inverter. Smart to use the AC charger on shore or on the road. Depends upon your charger though.

 

[ERR]

I looked, but Will has so many videos I cant find that video or exact renogy part. Please provide a link to his video or page you are talking about, and the device you're talking about.

Video:

Will's rec 400W set up: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/simplified-400-watt-fewer-wires-and-alternator-charging.html

 

[ERR]

Having a seperate DC to DC and a seperate solar charger is a more reliable set up.

That makes sense to me. I've always wondered though, if you have two separate charging sources being processed by two separate control units, how is there no problem created since the two units are not talking to each other, in regards to what they are inputting into the battery? I guess the two controllers are just reacting to the voltage of the battery as far as modifying their input so they can't over charge?

 

[RV8R]

Agreed. @ERR , I first had a whole Renogy setup. Long story short, it was inefficient, frustrating to use and headache inducing customer support. I replaced the charge controller and inverter with Victron models and my goodness, it’s a night and day difference. I also get 15-30% more solar production with the Victron charge controller compared to the Renogy one. Same panels and wiring, only thing that changed was the charge controller.

I have not tried the combo dcdc/mppt unit from Renogy, but if it’s designed as poorly as their other products, I’d run from that. Their pricing was once attractive, now you couldn’t pay me enough to use their stuff.

Also, the Victron smart solar 100/30 MPPT is now actually cheaper than the Renogy Rover 30A MPPT. Because the Renogy requires a $30 Bluetooth dongle to properly program it, whereas the Victron has Bluetooth built in. The ease of use of both the device and the Bluetooth app are way better with the Victron.

Finally, if you do go with separate devices, do you intend to have a 120v AC charger as well? If so, it can be cheaper to buy a cheap low wattage inverter to power that AC charger from your vehicle’s starter battery, instead of a DC-DC charger. The latter requires thick expensive wiring if you’re 12v. The former only requires a short run of wiring to the inverter, then regular 12-14AWG wiring to your AC charger. Put a switch in the cab to turn on or off the inverter. Smart to use the AC charger on shore or on the road. Depends upon your charger though.

I’m kinda a “Team Blue” guy too. But I am not a loyalist, just make decisions in my self interest.

I like Victron, Blue Sea, & now Kisae

I have a Kisae “Dual” Alternator/Solar 1250 & love it, however I do not use the Solar side at all & 100% charge my van house battery from the alternator via Kisae 1250. I might some day pack interior stowed away solar panels that I could pull out & plug into the Kisae for Boondocking.

My design philosophy is good quality products that will reduce “road repairs” & the less proprietary as possible ,,, if they don’t play well with others that is a huge negative consideration for me.

For RV electrical, I tend to follow “Marine Grade” products.

 

[RV8R]

That makes sense to me. I've always wondered though, if you have two separate charging sources being processed by two separate control units, how is there no problem created since the two units are not talking to each other, in regards to what they are inputting into the battery? I guess the two controllers are just reacting to the voltage of the battery as far as modifying their input so they can't over charge?

It depends;

However, if you have two separate charging sources, operating at the same time without proper communication protocol, they can confuse each other as to the status of the battery you’re charging.

So when designing your system, you should have a manual way to shut down the charging sources individually. This way, you can force your batteries to be charged by solar only or alternator only.

 

[Tomthumb62]

That makes sense to me. I've always wondered though, if you have two separate charging sources being processed by two separate control units, how is there no problem created since the two units are not talking to each other, in regards to what they are inputting into the battery? I guess the two controllers are just reacting to the voltage of the battery as far as modifying their input so they can't over charge?

Someone can explain the technical side better than I, but yes, having two or more charging sources poses no problems. And yes they are charging based upon the battery’s voltage. How they figure this out while another charging source is operating, I still don’t fully understand. The main gotcha is you want to make sure you don’t exceed the charging rate of your battery. And ideally all charging sources have the same charging settings. Some chargers (like Victron) have far more settings than others. This is partly why I’ve decided to stick with Victron, because I can change the settings on both the shore charger and solar charge controller to work in better harmony for better efficiency. How much this greater efficiency matters in the real world, I’m still not sure on as I’ve yet to see numbers to compare with.

Now there are devices that do communicate directly with each other. The exact benefits of this I’m less clear on. It does add complexity to the system.

 

[Tomthumb62]

So when designing your system, you should have a manual way to shut down the charging sources individually.

One of the things I appreciate about my Victron 100/30 charge controller is I can turn off its charging via Bluetooth (“smart solar” is their Bluetooth line). Now I can also flip the disconnect breaker to do the same thing, but the remote ability is very handy.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I’m kinda a “Team Blue” guy too. But I am not a loyalist, just make decisions in my self interest.

I like Victron, Blue Sea, & now Kisae

I have a Kisae “Dual” Alternator/Solar 1250 & love it, however I do not use the Solar side at all & 100% charge my van house battery from the alternator via Kisae 1250. I might some day pack interior stowed away solar panels that I could pull out & plug into the Kisae for Boondocking.

My design philosophy is good quality products that will reduce “road repairs” & the less proprietary as possible ,,, if they don’t play well with others that is a huge negative consideration for me.

For RV electrical, I tend to follow “Marine Grade” products.

Haven’t heard much about Kisae before, thanks for the suggestion. And yes I’ve learned to lean towards marine grade stuff for our little camper. It’s actually often not that much more expensive in general. My penny pinching habit ended up costing us a very pretty penny by buying non marine grade stuff.

I’m not a complete loyalist to any brand either, but it seems to be turning out that Victron is an easy choice in my case.

 

[Tomthumb62]

I have a Kisae “Dual” Alternator/Solar 1250 & love it, however I do not use the Solar side at all & 100% charge my van house battery from the alternator via Kisae 1250.

So I looked up this Kisae 1250 and it looks on paper to be amazing! Quality sturdy build, good features and an attractive price.

Then I looked at the reviews on Amazon. Two of them state of a parasitic 5w draw after it completes a charge cycle and the solution is to power cycle the unit daily. It’s design quirks like this that have led me to Victron. I don’t just find problems like this with Victron, at least not yet, because they seem to work out the bugs and updating the firmware is easy peasy.

Maybe Kisae has since fixed the issue—have you experienced this problem?

One of the reviews says this only happens occasionally when charging via solar and the other said it only happens occasionally but didn’t state the charging source mode.

If they haven’t fixed this, then that’s a flaw I don’t think I could live with. I fiddle with the solar system enough as it is, but having to remember to power cycle the MPPT every night would drive me nuts, lol.

 

[RV8R]

So I looked up this Kisae 1250 and it looks on paper to be amazing! Quality sturdy build, good features and an attractive price.

Then I looked at the reviews on Amazon. Two of them state of a parasitic 5w draw after it completes a charge cycle and the solution is to power cycle the unit daily. It’s design quirks like this that have led me to Victron. I don’t just find problems like this with Victron, at least not yet, because they seem to work out the bugs and updating the firmware is easy peasy.

Maybe Kisae has since fixed the issue—have you experienced this problem?

One of the reviews says this only happens occasionally when charging via solar and the other said it only happens occasionally but didn’t state the charging source mode.

If they haven’t fixed this, then that’s a flaw I don’t think I could live with. I fiddle with the solar system enough as it is, but having to remember to power cycle the MPPT every night would drive me nuts, lol.

So 5W is about 400 mA. There is a “boot up” when I first turn the unit on, & that is a bit greater then the Standby but as my “Victron BM712 measures in 100mA or 0.1A & have not tested it other than looked at the BM when operating my switch ,,, not Kisae’s on/off.

I can confirm in my setup the “On” or “Standby” uses indicated 0.1A ,,, so the spec’d 0.07A (as published by Kisae below), I assume my Victron “rounds up” to the nearest 0.1A.

Note the published “off” drain is less than 200 uA.

My setup the “off” disconnects the house positive & the starter positive. Open circuit & thus no parasites .

I don’t use the solar, so can’t report that on that side. I have not experienced that large of parasitic draw on mine. So no bugs reported on my setup yet. I can tell you customer support from Kisae is “outstanding” ,,, some of the best support I have ever encountered.

Nothing for Kisae to “fix” & no “flaws” detected ,,, just operates per specifications;

I suppose ,,, YMMV

 

[Tomthumb62]

I can tell you customer support from Kisae is “outstanding” ,,, some of the best support I have ever encountered.

Thanks for your review and report on their customer service. This is very heartening to hear.

Is the dcdc side of the unit adjustable? I mean can you turn it down to say 15A? Would be nice to not have to upgrade the alternator.

Edit: I see that the output amperage is adjustable. Looks great.

 

[RV8R]

Thanks for your review and report on their customer service. This is very heartening to hear.

Is the dcdc side of the unit adjustable? I mean can you turn it down to say 15A? Would be nice to not have to upgrade the alternator.

Edit: I see that the output amperage is adjustable. Looks

https://www.kisaepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/AbsoCharger_Manual_DMT12V_24V-Series_Rev-D_190612_Print.pdf

Yes;