Aims Industrial Inverter (95% efficient) vs Victron (91%) -- Apples to Apples?

[tomsaffell]

I'm looking for an efficient 12V inverter in the 1200W to 2000W range, which will mostly be used at ~500W.
In the past I've bought Victron gear, and been very happy, but I noticed that Aims make an inverter that they rate at 95% efficient at 1/3 power.

2000 Watt Pure Sine Power Inverter - AIMS Power

Vs the Victron Phoenix which they at a max efficiency of 91% for the 12v/1200w

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Phoenix-Inverter-VE.Direct-250VA-1200VA-EN.pdf

Is this a fair apples-to-apples comparison? Can I actually expect to get higher efficiency from the Aims around 500W than the Victron?

Any other differences worth considering (I know the warranty is 1yr vs 5 yr)
Or any other high efficiency inverters in that size range that I should consider?

Context: this is for a travel trailer, where most loads will be 12V, so the inverter will be off most of the time.

thanks

tom

 

[jamiegreen]

Your comparing a tier 1 product to a tier 2/3 product, the victron being the tier 1, and probably more expensive. I can't comment on the efficiency of the AIMS, my guess is I'd give it a little wiggle room and at best say it's going to be the same efficiency as the victron. Sometimes you have to take the manufacturers efficiency ratings with a pinch of salt, they may well be recorded in the perfect load conditions and drop off at less efficient loads.

 

[rodrick]

Go with the victron five times the warranty, the way they make their efficiency ratings I bet you won’t see any difference between the two

 

[tim0shel]

Just make sure you buy the Victron from a reputable company as you can not go direct to Victron with any issues you end up having to go through whom you purchased through.

 

[tomsaffell]

Thanks all. Good advice. FYI, the AIMs is slightly more expensive (but also higher power rating).

Besides Victron, are there other Tier 1 manufacturers that you recommend with high efficiency in the 1200-2000W range?

thanks

tom

 

[Tomthumb62]

Thanks all. Good advice. FYI, the AIMs is slightly more expensive (but also higher power rating).

Besides Victron, are there other Tier 1 manufacturers that you recommend with high efficiency in the 1200-2000W range?

thanks

tom

In case you haven’t bought yet, just so you know, the Victron 12/1200 is rated for 1000W continuous, not 1200. They call it the 12/1200 aka 12 volts/1200 volt-amps. 1200VA converts to 1000W. Why they labeled it that way I don’t know, it’s confusing since every other inverter out there is rated in watts. That said I would consider their 1000W rating a conservative one, in practice it’s probably a bit higher than that.

 

[niktak11]

In case you haven’t bought yet, just so you know, the Victron 12/1200 is rated for 1000W continuous, not 1200. They call it the 12/1200 aka 12 volts/1200 volt-amps. 1200VA converts to 1000W. Why they labeled it that way I don’t know, it’s confusing since every other inverter out there is rated in watts. That said I would consider their 1000W rating a conservative one, in practice it’s probably a bit higher than that.

Actually it's kinda the opposite, at higher ambient temperatures it's even lower than 1000W.

 

[sunsurfer]

Consider also the idle consumption. It can really add up.

 

[Crowz]

From my past experience with aims you couldn't pay me to allow their stuff on my property.

Go with the victron or anything else.

I've got a cheap 2000 watt whistler inverter in one of my trucks that cost $200 that has been 1000 times more reliable than the $850 2000watt pure sine wave aims inverter I have.

That's just my opinion but I wouldn't touch them after all the problems I've had. Mine has been "repaired" by them twice and its dead again now but I think this last time mother nature took it out. Now that I think about it I believe it was a blessing in disguise.

 

[Crowz]

Also even when the aims I had worked it was buggy. The specs on the built in battery charger were 1/2 what they claimed and they ended up admitting it eventually.

 

[Tomthumb62]

From my past experience with aims you couldn't pay me to allow their stuff on my property.

It also speaks volumes that Current Connected no longer sells AIMS products. Iirc, they had a huge quality control issue with many of their chargers and AIMS wouldn’t back up their products. He’s posted about it on the forum in the past.

 

[chrisski]

When inverter efficiency is measured, that is at rated or near rated output. As you push less watts, the inverter is less efficient. IMHO, there is not a whole lot of difference between 91% and 94%.

I would purchase this off of idle load, monitoring, some sort of eco mode, and a remote off switch. I have Victron, so I know their monitoring is top notch. Also with monitoring, to be able to remote monitor through Blue Tooth or pushed over the net, Victron has that; not sure if Aims does. An eco mode is a power saving mode where it will enter a low draw on its own, but knowing the wake up wattage is important since once entering this mode, a draw greater than a certain limit is needed to wake it up; some low wattage loads may not wake it up. Last is the remote off switch, and this should be standard. Shutting it off at night when not needed even with an eco mode when the weather has been cloudy for days could be needed.

 

[Tomthumb62]

When inverter efficiency is measured, that is at rated or near rated output. As you push less watts, the inverter is less efficient. IMHO, there is not a whole lot of difference between 91% and 94%.

I would purchase this off of idle load, monitoring, some sort of eco mode, and a remote off switch. I have Victron, so I know their monitoring is top notch. Also with monitoring, to be able to remote monitor through Blue Tooth or pushed over the net, Victron has that; not sure if Aims does. An eco mode is a power saving mode where it will enter a low draw on its own, but knowing the wake up wattage is important since once entering this mode, a draw greater than a certain limit is needed to wake it up; some low wattage loads may not wake it up. Last is the remote off switch, and this should be standard. Shutting it off at night when not needed even with an eco mode when the weather has been cloudy for days could be needed.

I’m seriously considering a Victron Phoenix 12/1200 mainly for the low idle. However, this post gives me pause:

Post in thread 'Idle 'no load' Consumption: Specs vs Your Personal Observation'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/i...s-your-personal-observation.31747/post-387536

In which @Bob142 measured 13w idle for a 8w spec for the 24v version of this inverter.

Have you measured yourself the idle draw of your Victron?

In that same thread, several users reported their Giandel inverters measuring under spec. It would not have monitoring capabilities but I don’t need that. Eco mode could be nice but not sure it would work with my fridge, some users report that the eco mode on the Victron will cause their fridge compressor to stall 25% of the time. I think the only way to know for sure is to buy one, install see what happens.

 

[Hedges]

it’s confusing since every other inverter out there is rated in watts.

Likely any inverter rated xxx Watts can deliver xxx VA, only xxx Watts into a pure resistive load.

Derating with temperature varies greatly, sometimes between similar but different wattage inverters from one manufacturer.

What may be more important is how well it tolerates reactive and other non-ideal loads (< 1.0 PF)
One user had a system that should have delivered 92% round-trip efficiency but was about 82%. Loads were primarily LED lights; their power supply swallows gulps of current at voltage peak, which causes greater dissipation in the system.

 

[sunsurfer]

I’m seriously considering a Victron Phoenix 12/1200 mainly for the low idle. However, this post gives me pause:

Post in thread 'Idle 'no load' Consumption: Specs vs Your Personal Observation'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/i...s-your-personal-observation.31747/post-387536

13w is still pretty low. You need good gear to really get an accurate reading in the very low power...FYI. Victron is usually pretty good about numbers. I didn't read that link deeply but just something to consider.

 

[sunsurfer]

Also even when the aims I had worked it was buggy. The specs on the built in battery charger were 1/2 what they claimed and they ended up admitting it eventually.

The transfer relays from gird to batt is a common fail point. I have a second one with a dead relay(charger doesn't work).

I got my aims cheap other wise I would be sad.

 

[MichaelK]

One important detail to focus attention on is the total harmonic distortion, THD, of the inverter you buy. It has real-world implications for running anything with an electric motor, which in general needs the cleanest AC. Aims in general appears to have the highest THD values in the industry, mostly in the 10% range. Most Victron products I've seen are less than half that. I'd weight the THD more than the overall efficiency.

 

[Lt.Dan]

One important detail to focus attention on is the total harmonic distortion, THD, of the inverter you buy. It has real-world implications for running anything with an electric motor, which in general needs the cleanest AC. Aims in general appears to have the highest THD values in the industry, mostly in the 10% range. Most Victron products I've seen are less than half that. I'd weight the THD more than the overall efficiency.

It's too bad this isn't regularly advertised and promoted.

 

[Bluedog225]

It also speaks volumes that Current Connected no longer sells AIMS products. Iirc, they had a huge quality control issue with many of their chargers and AIMS wouldn’t back up their products. He’s posted about it on the forum in the past.

Well that’s unfortunate….

 

[sunsurfer]

One important detail to focus attention on is the total harmonic distortion, THD, of the inverter you buy. It has real-world implications for running anything with an electric motor, which in general needs the cleanest AC. Aims in general appears to have the highest THD values in the industry, mostly in the 10% range. Most Victron products I've seen are less than half that. I'd weight the THD more than the overall efficiency.

I can guess what THD is but its above my overall knowledge level as probably most people. Great info to learn about. I have an AIMS 24v 4KW LF big blue burrito inverter. It powers my well and I use LOTS of power tools for cutting wood. Chop saw, elec chain saw etc...Its got balls, thats for sure. Its going to run some AC this summer. It has gotten rained on before and corroded the top switch, still running though. I have jump lead till I can replace that switch. I don't think I could ever over load it. I think surge load is like 12k or something.