diy solar

diy solar

Avoiding Galvanic Corrosion

Thanks - so sounds as though in a cellar environment you could consider doing nothing but that might be taking some risk of developing some corrosion before 10 years are up, right?

I would at a minimum use good quality non drying grease. Plenty of great options out there.

Yeah, if using zinc or gold foil increases contact resistance at all, it’s probably not worth it. I assume the antiox grease would have little/no impact on contact resistance, correct?

Correct, the physical connection sets the resistance, so most purpose designed greases just fill the existing gaps between the surfaces, and don't impact conductance much at all.

But if the lower of two busbars in contact with the aluminum terminal is zinc-plated, additional copper busbars including one with soldered sense wire can be added on top of the stack without causing any issue, right?

Yes, Only the surfaces in direct contact are at risk.

So zinc-plated screws/bolts and a lowermost zinc-plated busbar May be the best way to transition from the aluminum terminal to nickle-plated metal that will then be able to safely interface with copper, correct?

Sure, just check the galvanic series for any two metals in direct contact.

And if I was going to go the trouble of zinc-plated screws, a zinc-plated lower busbar, and a copper busbar (or zinc-plated busbar with an area of planting removed for soldering), would you still recommend the use antiox grease, or is it superfluous at that point?

I wouldn't necessarily use an antioxidant grease unless its specified for the metals in question. There are numerous pure silicone greases which will never dry out, and are temp stable to 400F+.


Galvanic corrosion requires an electrolyte. In a dry environment this will rarely happen. Take a look at cars from the southwest where it rarely rains. Steel bodies last many decades. If we are talking a cellar with humidity under 75% regularly, then take basic precautions and use a good grease. I would not expect significant corrosion within a decade. If you are going to see major temperature shifts which can drive humidity near or past condensing, such as outdoors in an enclosure (wet or humid region), on a boat, etc. Then You may consider something with sacrificial zinc. Either a coating or grease product. Finally, if you may get water spray, or actual condensation on the pack, then you should make sure all metals in contact are close in potential.

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(Almost) everything was created magnetic. But some are more magnetic than others.


I think its obvious we are talking about ferro magnetism, not generic electromagnetism. Also, Some Stainless alloys are slightly magnetic.
 
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So just to be clear, you are using an aluminum threaded terminal lubricated with MIL-L-87177 (or equivalent) and then holding down copper busbars or aluminum busbars?
I'm using aluminum bus bars. They need only be slightly larger than what you would use in copper, and the material is cheaper.
The bolts are a little more expensive, but critical.
Just before you bolt everything together, clean the terminals and bus bars to remove any oxidation. I'll be adding blue Loctite to the threads and putting a light coat of lubricant on the surface of the terminals and bus bars.

Once you go to an aluminum thread coming out of the terminal, any corrosion should be visible on the surface of the aluminum post in the cell. Whether using copper busbars or zinc-plated busbars, or aluminum busbars, maintainance should be straightforward.
That's the idea. Keep the potential of galvanic reaction where you can see it.

Also, if corrosion within the threads of the post have been prevented and it’s only some surface corrosion that may eventually develop, until that corrosion causes an increase in resistance, nothing really need to be done about it - isn’t there an easy way to just measure full-battery resistance or single-cell resistance every 6 months to determine whether more extensive maintainance is needed rather than having to inspect all of the terminal surfaces every 6 months?
If you see corrosion beginning to happen, definitely take action! Clean off anything you see and apply your lubricant to reestablish the barrier between the metal and the moisture and oxygen.
You can test your terminal resistance just like you would the internal cell resistance.
In my case, I'll open my battery door on the camper and look for oxidation. If I see none, a quick spritz of SuperCorrA and see you in 6 months.
 
Stupid question ... since the torque involved for the bolts/nuts to the cell terminals is pretty low, would plastic/nylon set/grub screws work? I have no idea how strong or reliable they are.
 
Stupid question ... since the torque involved for the bolts/nuts to the cell terminals is pretty low, would plastic/nylon set/grub screws work? I have no idea how strong or reliable they are.
I think it would be very easy to over torque the bolts with those. It would also make it difficult to get a torque wrench on the bolt to set the torque correctly.
 
I think avoiding touching pieces with sweaty hands is important.
Also, the studs aren't glued in permanently. Low strength loctite should do fine.
That way you can get the stud out without breaking the allen head if you want to change the length or use a different screw.
 
Definitely do NOT use red loctite. Blue is probably about right, but if you are concerned about the bolt getting stuck, go with the purple.
 
If necessary briefly heating the stud to 300F will make it break free easily with low strength loctite. I tested mine with the purple stuff, and it held up to the torque limit for the terminal without spinning.
 
Definitely do NOT use red loctite.
Red works for me because I use long SS studs and do not see the need to ever take them out. I would never use locktite on Aluminum studs though. Because of the lower tensile strength of aluminum there is more likeliehood of them stretching or breaking and needing to be replaced.
 
Red works for me because I use long SS studs and do not see the need to ever take them out. I would never use locktite on Aluminum studs though. Because of the lower tensile strength of aluminum there is more likeliehood of them stretching or breaking and needing to be replaced.
I plan to use stainless stud, nuts and washers too. You can probably get your studs out with 2 nuts tightened together if you ever need to.
 
If you work within the torque specification, there should not be any stretching of the aluminum bolts. Following the guidelines will also ensure that the female threads in the cell are not overstressed.
I just recently had to remove a screw that I used Loctite red on. I had to get out the torch. Way too strong of a bond for this application. I would have melted all the plastic overlays and the piece surrounding the terminals.
 
I just recently had to remove a screw that I used Loctite red on. I had to get out the torch. Way too strong of a bond for this application.
Yes I would agree it is too strong of a bond in this application for a screw or bolt. That is why I only use it on studs to reduce any risk of the stud being forced through the bottom of the terninal.
 
If you work within the torque specification, there should not be any stretching of the aluminum bolts.
I know 6mm stainless can handle the recommended torque on the cell threads. I have not seen any recomended torque specification for aluminum studs, but I know it is less than SS of the same dimension. The only evidence was a comparison by weight which is meaningless in this application when every one agrees the thread diameter is already on the small size.
 
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From the EVE datasheet, the torque for the aluminum threads on the cells is: "less than 8Nm" , which is almost 71in/lb or 5.9ft/lbs. Not massive torque, but more than enough to hold the bus bars tight when the cells are properly compressed.
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Yes and I am comfortable that stainless studs can handle that torque and the threads will not be at risk because the stud will be inserted to within half rotation of bottom. Last year I twisted a bolt off a 3/8" stud on an inverter that I thought was stainless but it was chrome plated brass. That is my only question about aluminum studs. I would be interested if anybody had calculated how much the aluminum would stretch or how much tensile strength it has compared to SS for the same diameter.
 
I'm no metallurgist, but I did some reading and found that the important specification would be the tensile yield strength. For 6061 Aluminum, there are a bunch of different numbers, but most agree somewhere between 240MPa and 290MPa.
I just don't know how to translate that into useful information. I can probably calculate the rotational force of 8Nm exerted on a 6mm bolt with 1mm pitch threads and come up with a linear pull force, but I don't know how to compare that to the material spec.
Maybe we have someone on here that knows that side.
 
I'm no metallurgist, but I did some reading and found that the important specification would be the tensile yield strength. For 6061 Aluminum, there are a bunch of different numbers, but most agree somewhere between 240MPa and 290MPa.
I just don't know how to translate that into useful information. I can probably calculate the rotational force of 8Nm exerted on a 6mm bolt with 1mm pitch threads and come up with a linear pull force, but I don't know how to compare that to the material spec.
Maybe we have someone on here that knows that side.

Forget whatever you learned about Archimedes. The clamping force you'd expect due to geometry isn't achieved because friction dominates. Find tables of clamping force vs. torque for thread materials and sizes, dry or wet. Or, coefficients of friction. The clamping force is what shears threads (so deep female threads in aluminum can be a good match to steel bolts, which don't stretch enough to strip threads like a zipper, instead spread force over entire depth.) And then the clamping or rotational force shears the inner diameter of the bolt thread.

I did go through that exercise to determine if some over-torqued aerospace components had been stressed beyond limits (potentially starting to shear the threads.) In that case they hadn't. Although I'm primarily an EE, my assignments have had me venture into other disciplines.

I once selected tiny stainless bolts to clamp an aluminum heatsink and broke them, before realizing they had half the strength of carbon steel.

I think aluminum bolts/studs for the battery will allow far less clamping force than stainless would, but it's possible they can tolerate the maximum torque specified.

When you torque terminal bolts, it is possible the plastic is limiting factor, not the aluminum. In that case, if you restrained a stud (e.g. with allen wrench or wrench on a pair of nuts), I think you could engineer a higher torque and clamping force based on aluminum thread strength and stud strength, without regards to battery manufacturer recommendations.

And by the way ... we are taught that a cheater handle only reduces the force needed to turn a bolt, does not reduce the torque.
That is incorrect.
Radial loading increases the friction which resists turning a bolt. Longer cheater handle, less radial load for a given torque, more likely you can get the bolt free without applying too much torque and twisting it in half.
Torquing a battery terminal, longer handled torque wrench means same torque achieves more rotation of bolt thread, more clamping force.
Same effect can be achieved with a T handle wrench (perfectly balanced force, none taken by bolt.)
Or just use an extension between torque wrench and socket. You use your palm to restrain head of the wrench from flopping; no radial load on bolt, all torque goes to overcoming friction due to thread ramp and to providing clamping force. No extra friction due to radial load.
 
I don't know any of the numbers, but I can attest that I have already managed to blow out one set of female threads in one of the aluminum terminals on one cell. :(
 
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