callmeburton
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2022
- Messages
- 258
Batrium Installation
- Thread starter Kristof
- Start date
Kristof
1977 Airstream Off Grid Trailer
I run the CORE from the 24 volt bank it controls. No issues. I also use 24v supply for the expansion unit from the CORE. No issues with using 24V for the switches and solenoids as well - they are all rated to 30V. Works like a treat now and keeps on the wifi no issues. The only downside is that all my other VICTRON gear I can monitor and control from my phone. Batrium is still working on the phone app - it will be great when that comes out.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
I'm not holding my breath there. They're struggling with support and supply, so I doubt many resources are devoted to that. I'd love to be wrong.
Shawn Hayes
Learning Everyday
Just to be clear, I can set my expansion board to send (how many volts???) to trip a Midnite breaker to trip if X happens. But I can’t find how many volts goes from Batrium to the M/S remote trip breaker. And from reading, I can program it to pulse for 200 ms in the Batrium?
Question is, I have four NON-remote trip breakers currently, one for each pack on my 16s4p bank for safety or disconnect to service etc…
So, how can I best do this with four remote trip breakers from Batrium? Thoughts?
@rhino has experience here, any thoughts?
400bird
Solar Wizard
The Batrium expansion board outputs are relays, or dry contracts in some circles, meaning you put voltage on one pin (relay input) and when the relay closes that voltage passes through to the output and shunt trip.
Chose an output that is "pulse"
I'm not sure if the Batrium will let you choose the same signal for 4 different output channels, but if that is supported that's the easiest answer for the control side.
Obviously the breakers would have to be replaced with remote trip style.
You could also install one main breaker that lies between the battery bank and all loads/chargers.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
I have a SACE S3 24v coil shunt-trip hooked to my Batrium. I use a 48v -> 24v converter to provide power thru Relay 1 (NO) of the expansion board to the shunt-trip coil. One aspect of 'pulse' I didn't understand for a long time is that the SACE S3 is a 'pluse trip' which means that when it get's the 24v and it trips, it not only disconnects the main power contactors but also disconnects the 24v to the coil - e.g. 'pulse' / nothing magical such as a timed amount of power sent over the wire.
Here's my Batrium settings - I have the "Critical Fault" associated with Relay 1
Batrium "Critical Fault" is the overall generic event generated on many aspects of the system. For example, here's the voltage min (Lo Cell Voltage) / max (Hi Cell Voltage) and lo/hi temps. There are other settings that will fire a "Critical Fault" such as over-amp reported by the shunt as an example.
You can only associate 1 event (e.g. "Critical Fault" as an example) to 1 relay. You can't assign Critical Fault to more than 1 relay. You can choose different events and associate them to different relays as long as it's a 1 to 1.
There are some other aspects to Batrium that I'm not experienced with - so I'm showing you what I did but not saying it's the only way
Last edited:
Shawn Hayes
Learning Everyday
Agreed. So had a thought:
Option :1
Swap out my breakers to (4) remote trip breakers. Then run a single wire from Batrium to trigger critical faults, but have that wire split four ways to trigger each of my four remote trip breakers. 24v for 200 ms. Guess I’ll need a step down dc converter. Saw one somewhere in a post.
Option 2:
Add one 250a/175v dc remote trip breaker between my current breakers and bus bar.
I’m trying not to eliminate all four of those individual breakers, one for each battery. I could install one remote trip breaker and illuminate all four of those non-trip breakers, but I like having the ability to shut one battery bank off without interrupting the other three.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
If #2 works, then that's my choice. Cheaper and more flexible.
I still don't have remote relay protection on my Batrium - relying on Victron hardware/BMS management. I have the expansion board set to go open circuit on a critical overvolt that actually cuts the remote control relay on the MPPT, so it will hard cut MPPT output to 0 - almost as good.
The only thing I don't have 100% confidence on charge protection is the extremely remote possibility of a Victron MPPT to fail and short PV to battery. The MPPT control relay isn't going to deal with that. I'm looking pretty hard at that same MN breaker.
I still don't have remote relay protection on my Batrium - relying on Victron hardware/BMS management. I have the expansion board set to go open circuit on a critical overvolt that actually cuts the remote control relay on the MPPT, so it will hard cut MPPT output to 0 - almost as good.
The only thing I don't have 100% confidence on charge protection is the extremely remote possibility of a Victron MPPT to fail and short PV to battery. The MPPT control relay isn't going to deal with that. I'm looking pretty hard at that same MN breaker.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
If you go #2 - here's an example of reasonably priced 300a ABB SACE S5 with 3 poles and 24vac or 24dc shunt-trip coil for ~$230 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/285404101711 These ABB SACE breakers are hi quality especially if you're after hi amps (300a, 400a, 600a) BUT... there are many variations of amps, # of poles, shunt-trip, ABB SACE SX models and related price differences as they come on/off ebay all the time, so if you have patience for a good price you can do well for a higher amp shunt-trip solution.
Some use 2 poles for the battery + / - and the 3rd pole to disconnect the incoming PV charging current to more completely isolate current in/out of the battery.
In terms of shunt-trip / voltage - you want to see this sort of thing in the pics or confirm before buying as the shunt-trip coil may or may not be part of the breaker model number and even with a shunt-trip coil, there is a range of voltages. This one shows clearly it's 24vac or 24vdc.
The often have auxiliary relays to trigger down stream stuff - maybe that would suite you're thinking somehow to trigger individual battery breakers as well? Not sure why, just pointing out the feature
And just FYI they're super heavy - like 10lbs?
Some use 2 poles for the battery + / - and the 3rd pole to disconnect the incoming PV charging current to more completely isolate current in/out of the battery.
In terms of shunt-trip / voltage - you want to see this sort of thing in the pics or confirm before buying as the shunt-trip coil may or may not be part of the breaker model number and even with a shunt-trip coil, there is a range of voltages. This one shows clearly it's 24vac or 24vdc.
The often have auxiliary relays to trigger down stream stuff - maybe that would suite you're thinking somehow to trigger individual battery breakers as well? Not sure why, just pointing out the feature
And just FYI they're super heavy - like 10lbs?
Last edited:
Shawn Hayes
Learning Everyday
Since I am using Sol-Ark, I assume I do not have this option. If I do, I am unaware of it and how to make that work?
I have class T fuses on each pack and the 175amp dc (non remote) Midnite breaker between the fuses and the bus bar. Thinking redundant trip, safety or service options.
I do have the Sol-Ark and Batrium communicating, so Batrium is telling Sol-Ark when and how to charge. I’ve set my Batrium critical parameters conservative, so if a fault occurs it should cut out charge or discharge etc.
So my thoughts, are if battery goes critical beyond parameters, no more charge or discharge. So my question is, that’s not enough? Breaking the battery connection is best even for a critical error that may be minor.
If you go #2 - here's an example of reasonably priced 300a ABB SACE S5 with 3 poles and 24vac or 24dc shunt-trip coil for ~$230 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/285404101711 These ABB SACE breakers are hi quality especially if you're after hi amps (300a, 400a, 600a) BUT... there are many variations of amps, # of poles, shunt-trip, ABB SACE SX models and related price differences as they come on/off ebay all the time, so if you have patience for a good price you can do well for a higher amp shunt-trip solution.
Some use 2 poles for the battery + / - and the 3rd pole to disconnect the incoming PV charging current to more completely isolate current in/out of the battery.
In terms of shunt-trip / voltage - you want to see this sort of thing in the pics or confirm before buying as the shunt-trip coil may or may not be part of the breaker model number and even with a shunt-trip coil, there is a range of voltages. This one shows clearly it's 24vac or 24vdc.
View attachment 164500
The often have auxiliary relays to trigger down stream stuff - maybe that would suite you're thinking somehow to trigger individual battery breakers as well? Not sure why, just pointing out the feature
View attachment 164502
And just FYI they're super heavy - like 10lbs?
I watched the Lithium Solar YT video with a similar breaker. That’s very cool but big. Not sue how I could work that in with out major rewiring.
If I went with option two, I was looking in the direction of the midnight solar, remote trip breaker. It seems they need the 24v pulse to trip. They offer them up to 250amp dc. Looking at my Batrium history, the max amp discharge is see is 138 amps.
Maybe this Midnite breaker is a poor choice for this?
In addition, Sol-Ark says battery separation under load may/will damage the inverter.
OffGridInTheCity
Solar Wizard
Midnite breakers are UL/ETL and a good choice. Other than the ABB SACE my system is all Midnite ranging from 250a (for my 12,000w inverters) to 125a to 80a, 60a, 20a, and 15a. Didn't know they make a shunt-trip version but if it's Midnite UL/ETL then I'd have confidence.
Hmmm this doesn't sound good!
Shawn Hayes
Learning Everyday
Midnite is what breakers I have now. Think they are great!
I remember reading somewhere that someone with Sol-Ark who had a remote trip breaker, somehow had another battery in-line after that to keep Sol-Ark from damage under remote trip. Can’t seem to find that now…..
MidNite Solar MNEDC250RT Remote Trip Circuit Breaker 250A
NOTICE: The MidNite Solar MNEDC250RT remote trip circuit breaker is not UL or ETL listed. However, if you don't need the remote trip functionality, the standard (non-RT) version of this circuit breaker is listed: MNEDC250.
www.solar-electric.com
I’m trying to verify if and how I can get Batrium to trip that breaker.
Shawn Hayes
Learning Everyday
How is this configured? I have the expansion board but not using it yet. Does that breaker need 24-48 volts?
A short pulse to trigger it?
MidNite Solar MNEDC250RT Remote Trip Circuit Breaker 250A
NOTICE: The MidNite Solar MNEDC250RT remote trip circuit breaker is not UL or ETL listed. However, if you don't need the remote trip functionality, the standard (non-RT) version of this circuit breaker is listed: MNEDC250.
www.solar-electric.com
This breaker is the one you have?
400bird
Solar Wizard
That sure does look like the correct breaker. Midnight doesn't offer many, so I think it's a same one I used.
It needs 24 (ish) vdc to trip.
I just grabbed that halfway through the pack. It's open 99.9% of the time, so it won't drag the pack out of balance. Even when it does need to trip, the risk of that causing very slight imbalance is worth the simplicity/reliability of not using a 48 to 24 DC converter.
It needs 24 (ish) vdc to trip.
I just grabbed that halfway through the pack. It's open 99.9% of the time, so it won't drag the pack out of balance. Even when it does need to trip, the risk of that causing very slight imbalance is worth the simplicity/reliability of not using a 48 to 24 DC converter.
As 400bird mentioned it is tripped with a 24V pulse. The Batrium has option to configure it send a 200ms 24V "Critical pulse" to trip that breaker.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Gotta say, I'm not seeing anything like that on the page you linked.
Search for "200" on that page.
sunshine_eggo
Happy Breffast!
Thanks. Where does it indicate that it's 24V? Is that a standard?
