Battery in basement woes Canada

[Hoocli]

So... It seems Canada has the great idea to not allow batteries under grade or in a dwelling unit....

Already have the inverter installed in the basement and now have to move the battery to the garage. Which of course sees -40 in the winter so I now have to Insulate and heat... 48v server rack.

Anyone have any way around this? Any exceptions? I'm trying to get a code book but can't find an up to date current version online. I'm in Saskatchewan.

Looks like the code just changed months ago. Before then was just fine.

 

[ElectricIslander]

Where did you hear this? Following .....

 

[Hoocli]

Where did you hear this? Following .....

64-918 electric code

 

[Hoocli]

 

[ElectricIslander]

View attachment 107528

Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).

 

[Hoocli]

Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).

I have 4 5kw LiFePo4 48v batteries parraleled.

Can I ask where you seen this?

I'm reading it at anything over 1kwh can't be installed inside a dwelling unit. Electrician has been going back and forth with inspector and they are saying no. Has to be garage.

Section 2 explicitly states it can't be below grade as well.

 

[niktak11]

Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).

Lifepo4 is a type of li-ion battery unless Canada has their own weird definitions

 

[Hoocli]

.

 

[errcl65]

You will have to move the inverters and batteries to an "approved" location.

I guess if you don't follow the ESA/OESC guideline, you only risk a non-claim in your
house insurance if something bad happens.

Basically, you can't even have a DeltaPRO in the house.

IMO, some of these "new regulations" are to discourage people from seeking energy
self sufficiency.

 

[Steve_S]

OMG - Canuck here !
They tripped and bafflegabbed the old Lead Acid Battery Bank rules up with this kludge. I knew they were gonna do it and it's all out of that Lithium Ion NMC/NCA HORSE TWADDLE (remember the burning ipads etc shit...) I believe this is being Challenged already and likely won't stand and amendments will follow. I have 30kWh in my powerhouse which is 75' from the primary dwelling that also houses my Pumphouse so I never had to consider such idiocy.

Does appear that you could build a "Vault" for your solar gear & batts next to the house (Use ICF & Concrete, 10x10 room) and conduit cable to cross, you'd be ok. Just keep temps above 15C in winter (very easy) and your good. Sounds almost like some urbanite twinky in a lab came up with this. A Wood framed 10x10 building sheeted with Mag-O (Magnesium Oxide) sheeting would accomplish the same at far less cost. Mag-o is 50% the cost of fireboard and more protective, available at BMR & Others but again it's a she beside the house.

Not sure what else to suggest... BTW the TSSA People are still being sticks in the mud on rules because of the labour dispute and you may be caught in that mess, they are screwing everyone around till they get settlement to put pressure.

Sorry, can't be of more help. I'm, in Northern Ontario so things are a tad different here.

Good Luck.

 

[Hoocli]

OMG - Canuck here !
They tripped and bafflegabbed the old Lead Acid Battery Bank rules up with this kludge. I knew they were gonna do it and it's all out of that Lithium Ion NMC/NCA HORSE TWADDLE (remember the burning ipads etc shit...) I believe this is being Challenged already and likely won't stand and amendments will follow. I have 30kWh in my powerhouse which is 75' from the primary dwelling that also houses my Pumphouse so I never had to consider such idiocy.

Does appear that you could build a "Vault" for your solar gear & batts next to the house (Use ICF & Concrete, 10x10 room) and conduit cable to cross, you'd be ok. Just keep temps above 15C in winter (very easy) and your good. Sounds almost like some urbanite twinky in a lab came up with this. A Wood framed 10x10 building sheeted with Mag-O (Magnesium Oxide) sheeting would accomplish the same at far less cost. Mag-o is 50% the cost of fireboard and more protective, available at BMR & Others but again it's a she beside the house.

Not sure what else to suggest... BTW the TSSA People are still being sticks in the mud on rules because of the labour dispute and you may be caught in that mess, they are screwing everyone around till they get settlement to put pressure.

Sorry, can't be of more help. I'm, in Northern Ontario so things are a tad different here.

Good Luck.

I'm from Sask here and it's still a headache. Can't fit a 10x10 in my yard. Live in a small town but the inspector won't budge.

Hopefully the amendments happen soon... Guessing it won't be soon enough though

 

[plutoz]

I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:

ESA will consider a deviation request from the location and separation requirements specified in Rule 64-918 2) and 4), when ESS are installed in dwelling units and all of the following conditions are met:
a) ESS are located in a dedicated storage room, utility closet, service room, or similar area that does not open directly into sleeping areas;
b) The room or area has a fire rating not less than 1 h, deemed to be in compliance with the Ontario Building Code (OBC) by a competent person;
c) The room or area is equipped with an interconnected smoke alarm or detector;
d) Individual ESS capacity does not exceed 20 kWh;
e) Multiple ESS aggregate capacity does not exceed 40 kWh;
f) ESS are spaced not less than 1 m apart from each other (or as per manufacturer’s installation instructions); and
g) ESS are spaced not less than 1 m from doors and windows.

According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).

 

[Haggis1669]

wait so if I read this right even putting a BLUETTI AC300 in my basement is against code

Or because it’s mobile it’s allowed so maybe put your rack on wheels

 

[Hoocli]

I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:



According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).

Yes but you must be in Ontario. That from my understanding is only applicable there and not Saskatchewan.

 

[Hoocli]

wait so if I read this right even putting a BLUETTI AC300 in my basement is against code

Or because it’s mobile it’s allowed so maybe put your rack on wheels

In theory yep, may not cover portable units but it very well could.

 

[4SeasonsGuy]

All the updates and bulletins from Ontario’s ESA says what can be inside, attached garage, below grade etc and I get that, however I can't seem to find what environment is allowed to be separate from the dwelling. In other words if my battery bank is not UL9540 where and what environment can it reside to pass ESA inspection. If building a small shed, insulated with heat, but not attached to the dwelling is within the regs then great, yes a bummer though. I just can’t find what is permissible. Not that is matters I think, however this is for a grid tied system

 

[Smittybells]

Has anyone heard of the code supposedly changing in ontario Canada for battery storage in the basment? I've read an article in cottage country magazine or something saying the government is changing to allow?

 

[Zwy]

I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:



According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).

Newer bulletin here.

Rule 64-918 2) and 3), prohibit the installation of energy storage systems utilizing batteries either more than 23m above grade, or below grade unless installed in an electrical equipment vault – See Section 0 - “vault” in BCEC.

23 meters above or below grade? Or does it mean 23 m above grade and nothing below grade. Poorly written.

 

[noobie]

Newer bulletin here.

Rule 64-918 2) and 3), prohibit the installation of energy storage systems utilizing batteries either more than 23m above grade, or below grade unless installed in an electrical equipment vault – See Section 0 - “vault” in BCEC.

23 meters above or below grade? Or does it mean 23 m above grade and nothing below grade. Poorly written.

It means 23m above grade, and nothing below grade. Although it reads that you can apply for a variance if you have a 9540 certified installation. I'm guessing the 23m limit is to prevent installation in high rises where it's harder to get fire equipment to those upper levels.

Like Ontario, it looks like you're still limited to 40kWh and you can only have 2 separate battery units spaced at least 1m apart. That would give the average house just over 1 day of backup power, but that is about all.

 

[Smittybells]

Seem

All the updates and bulletins from Ontario’s ESA says what can be inside, attached garage, below grade etc and I get that, however I can't seem to find what environment is allowed to be separate from the dwelling. In other words if my battery bank is not UL9540 where and what environment can it reside to pass ESA inspection. If building a small shed, insulated with heat, but not attached to the dwelling is within the regs then great, yes a bummer though. I just can’t find what is permissible. Not that is matters I think, however this is for a grid tied system

Seems like Canada is way behind the ball when it comes to this. I really don't understand if a new battery system meets all qualifications why it has to be stored in a separate building. They sure don't make it easy to be green or self sufficient