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Battery in basement woes Canada

Hoocli

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Joined
Jul 31, 2022
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So... It seems Canada has the great idea to not allow batteries under grade or in a dwelling unit....

Already have the inverter installed in the basement and now have to move the battery to the garage. Which of course sees -40 in the winter so I now have to Insulate and heat... 48v server rack.

Anyone have any way around this? Any exceptions? I'm trying to get a code book but can't find an up to date current version online. I'm in Saskatchewan.

Looks like the code just changed months ago. Before then was just fine.
 
Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).
 
Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).
I have 4 5kw LiFePo4 48v batteries parraleled.

Can I ask where you seen this?

I'm reading it at anything over 1kwh can't be installed inside a dwelling unit. Electrician has been going back and forth with inspector and they are saying no. Has to be garage.

Section 2 explicitly states it can't be below grade as well.
 
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Thanks - Under this code language there are a couple of ways that energy storage systems can be installed in dwelling units:

1) Lead Acid and LiFePO4 batteries are allowed as they are not LiIon batteries (those are LiCo/Mn chemistries), but they have to be less than 20 kWhr/unit.

2) LiIon batteries are allowed if they meet UL9540A criteria (I believe Tesla and others are).

Discover, SimpliPHI, Blue Planet etc. are both LiFePO4 and are UL9540A compliant, but check as I'm not entirely sure).
Lifepo4 is a type of li-ion battery unless Canada has their own weird definitions
 
You will have to move the inverters and batteries to an "approved" location.

I guess if you don't follow the ESA/OESC guideline, you only risk a non-claim in your
house insurance if something bad happens.

Basically, you can't even have a DeltaPRO in the house.

IMO, some of these "new regulations" are to discourage people from seeking energy
self sufficiency.
 
OMG - Canuck here !
They tripped and bafflegabbed the old Lead Acid Battery Bank rules up with this kludge. I knew they were gonna do it and it's all out of that Lithium Ion NMC/NCA HORSE TWADDLE (remember the burning ipads etc shit...) I believe this is being Challenged already and likely won't stand and amendments will follow. I have 30kWh in my powerhouse which is 75' from the primary dwelling that also houses my Pumphouse so I never had to consider such idiocy.

Does appear that you could build a "Vault" for your solar gear & batts next to the house (Use ICF & Concrete, 10x10 room) and conduit cable to cross, you'd be ok. Just keep temps above 15C in winter (very easy) and your good. Sounds almost like some urbanite twinky in a lab came up with this. A Wood framed 10x10 building sheeted with Mag-O (Magnesium Oxide) sheeting would accomplish the same at far less cost. Mag-o is 50% the cost of fireboard and more protective, available at BMR & Others but again it's a she beside the house.

Not sure what else to suggest... BTW the TSSA People are still being sticks in the mud on rules because of the labour dispute and you may be caught in that mess, they are screwing everyone around till they get settlement to put pressure.

Sorry, can't be of more help. I'm, in Northern Ontario so things are a tad different here.

Good Luck.
 
OMG - Canuck here !
They tripped and bafflegabbed the old Lead Acid Battery Bank rules up with this kludge. I knew they were gonna do it and it's all out of that Lithium Ion NMC/NCA HORSE TWADDLE (remember the burning ipads etc shit...) I believe this is being Challenged already and likely won't stand and amendments will follow. I have 30kWh in my powerhouse which is 75' from the primary dwelling that also houses my Pumphouse so I never had to consider such idiocy.

Does appear that you could build a "Vault" for your solar gear & batts next to the house (Use ICF & Concrete, 10x10 room) and conduit cable to cross, you'd be ok. Just keep temps above 15C in winter (very easy) and your good. Sounds almost like some urbanite twinky in a lab came up with this. A Wood framed 10x10 building sheeted with Mag-O (Magnesium Oxide) sheeting would accomplish the same at far less cost. Mag-o is 50% the cost of fireboard and more protective, available at BMR & Others but again it's a she beside the house.

Not sure what else to suggest... BTW the TSSA People are still being sticks in the mud on rules because of the labour dispute and you may be caught in that mess, they are screwing everyone around till they get settlement to put pressure.

Sorry, can't be of more help. I'm, in Northern Ontario so things are a tad different here.

Good Luck.
I'm from Sask here and it's still a headache. Can't fit a 10x10 in my yard. Live in a small town but the inspector won't budge.

Hopefully the amendments happen soon... Guessing it won't be soon enough though
 
I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:

ESA will consider a deviation request from the location and separation requirements specified in Rule 64-918 2) and 4), when ESS are installed in dwelling units and all of the following conditions are met:
a) ESS are located in a dedicated storage room, utility closet, service room, or similar area that does not open directly into sleeping areas;
b) The room or area has a fire rating not less than 1 h, deemed to be in compliance with the Ontario Building Code (OBC) by a competent person;
c) The room or area is equipped with an interconnected smoke alarm or detector;
d) Individual ESS capacity does not exceed 20 kWh;
e) Multiple ESS aggregate capacity does not exceed 40 kWh;
f) ESS are spaced not less than 1 m apart from each other (or as per manufacturer’s installation instructions); and
g) ESS are spaced not less than 1 m from doors and windows.

According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).
 
wait so if I read this right even putting a BLUETTI AC300 in my basement is against code

Or because it’s mobile it’s allowed so maybe put your rack on wheels
 
I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:



According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).
Yes but you must be in Ontario. That from my understanding is only applicable there and not Saskatchewan.
 
wait so if I read this right even putting a BLUETTI AC300 in my basement is against code

Or because it’s mobile it’s allowed so maybe put your rack on wheels
In theory yep, may not cover portable units but it very well could.
 
All the updates and bulletins from Ontario’s ESA says what can be inside, attached garage, below grade etc and I get that, however I can't seem to find what environment is allowed to be separate from the dwelling. In other words if my battery bank is not UL9540 where and what environment can it reside to pass ESA inspection. If building a small shed, insulated with heat, but not attached to the dwelling is within the regs then great, yes a bummer though. I just can’t find what is permissible. Not that is matters I think, however this is for a grid tied system
 
Has anyone heard of the code supposedly changing in ontario Canada for battery storage in the basment? I've read an article in cottage country magazine or something saying the government is changing to allow?
 
I'm dealing with this issue too - had planned to put 10-15kWh battery storage in the utility room of my new build (single story, slab foundation). Local ESA inspector is telling my builder no. However I found an ESA bulletin online dated May 2022 which addresses this subject and found this on page 3:



According to my builder a 1 hour fire barrier can be achieved with Roxul insulation in the wall and 5/8" drywall on either side. We had planned to have a window in the room but I'm now thinking of asking him to omit the window (which has already been ordered, oh well).
Newer bulletin here.

Rule 64-918 2) and 3), prohibit the installation of energy storage systems utilizing batteries either more than 23m above grade, or below grade unless installed in an electrical equipment vault – See Section 0 - “vault” in BCEC.

23 meters above or below grade? Or does it mean 23 m above grade and nothing below grade. Poorly written.
 
Newer bulletin here.

Rule 64-918 2) and 3), prohibit the installation of energy storage systems utilizing batteries either more than 23m above grade, or below grade unless installed in an electrical equipment vault – See Section 0 - “vault” in BCEC.

23 meters above or below grade? Or does it mean 23 m above grade and nothing below grade. Poorly written.
It means 23m above grade, and nothing below grade. Although it reads that you can apply for a variance if you have a 9540 certified installation. I'm guessing the 23m limit is to prevent installation in high rises where it's harder to get fire equipment to those upper levels.

Like Ontario, it looks like you're still limited to 40kWh and you can only have 2 separate battery units spaced at least 1m apart. That would give the average house just over 1 day of backup power, but that is about all.
 
Seem
All the updates and bulletins from Ontario’s ESA says what can be inside, attached garage, below grade etc and I get that, however I can't seem to find what environment is allowed to be separate from the dwelling. In other words if my battery bank is not UL9540 where and what environment can it reside to pass ESA inspection. If building a small shed, insulated with heat, but not attached to the dwelling is within the regs then great, yes a bummer though. I just can’t find what is permissible. Not that is matters I think, however this is for a grid tied system
Seems like Canada is way behind the ball when it comes to this. I really don't understand if a new battery system meets all qualifications why it has to be stored in a separate building. They sure don't make it easy to be green or self sufficient
 
Seem

Seems like Canada is way behind the ball when it comes to this. I really don't understand if a new battery system meets all qualifications why it has to be stored in a separate building. They sure don't make it easy to be green or self sufficient
It is intentional, it is lobbying by big business to force you to increase their profits. It is fascism where laws are passed that industry wants to benefit that industry. US is not far behind.

It's all done for "public safety". You have heard that before recently, the last 3 years are a prime example.
 
Seem

Seems like Canada is way behind the ball when it comes to this. I really don't understand if a new battery system meets all qualifications why it has to be stored in a separate building. They sure don't make it easy to be green or self sufficient
We are stuck in the stone ages it seems. They seem more lenient on grid tied systems without battery storage. We have many companies that will happily install expensive grid tied systems, although I don't think they pay much to sell back anymore.
 
Easier for them to control, they don't want all of that self-consumption and Independence BS eating into their profits.
Easy to think that, but requires ignoring the well-established bureaucratic regulation creation process which is orders of magnitude slower, by design, than technology evolution. Sure utilities are self-interested (as any capitalist would want them to be, but as a monopoly is supposed to be properly regulated by Utility Commission (or whatever local jurisdiction deems appropriate), which fails almost universally ... for political reasons on both side of political aisle, the net result being gross inefficiency ... for which both parties are equally to blame).

Beware wishing for fast changing regulations, as that most assuredly be its own nightmare
as much as I'd like regulations to be better written (ie not lumping all batteries in same category, as runaway thermal event risk varies significantly across chemistries), that really is expecting more than we typically get from people whose expertise is NOT batteries. in a few years (typical process update timeframe), I hope (possibly foolishly expect) clarification/improvement in building/electrical codes regarding type and capacity of in-home batteries. possibly around the time solid-state or other newer battery tech arrives, which could change safety considerations yet again.
ah, the joy of being on the cutting edge..

I do believe this is more a case of the old adage - Hanlon's razor that states: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. (by those writing the codes vs self-interest of the utility companies)
Then combine that with a real safety consideration (especially of low-cost, poorly implemented Li-Ion battery systems ... see scooter and e-bike fires in NYC as example) and hybrid inverters potentially putting electric grid line workers at risk. I'm all for balanced risk, so you won't see me advocate for no-risk solutions.. to me that is silly. But a 'do what i want, indulge my impatience, even if it puts others at significant risk' ... seems more worthy of electric shock 'therapy' than anything else

> It is fascism where laws are passed that industry wants to benefit that industry.
That statement represents a mis-understanding (or interpretation) of history, politics, and economics
 

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