Bonding and Grounding Solar Components

[yellowjeep2850]

my local jurisdiction required me to drive 2 ground rods at each location of a sub panel even though all sub panels are bonded to the main panel , all the sub panels have isolated neutrals ,personally to me the bonding is what's important

 

[timselectric]

my local jurisdiction required me to drive 2 ground rods at each location of a sub panel even though all sub panels are bonded to the main panel , all the sub panels have isolated neutrals ,personally to me the bonding is what's important

Agreed

 

[fisherus]

Posted this before post 53. That is true for commercial heavy duty lighting protection on large buildings.
But they don't "attract lightning".

OK I did some fast study. A lightning protection system requires an earth ground. There are different ways to do this. multiple rods driven into the earth is the most common. There are two thoughts on this, ONE; the static is bled into the ground before it builds to a direct heavy strike. Universally accepted by most experts until 50 years ago.. TWO; the strike is directed into the ground by the installed circuits. Presented by some modern experts during the past 50 years. My belief from observation that both are true. There are fewer strikes with grounded systems than with no system.
It is accepted by all; there must be a earth ground, one or more rods driven into the earth. It is also accepted by all, Such system = Will Not Attract Lightning.
It is accepted by code and solar installation experts that solar panel frames must be grounded to an earth ground rod or more. Systems I have examined all have multiple rods tied together with copper wire..

I have done that with my panels and ground mount. What I am trying to do now is ground all my boxes, switches, breaker box, etc., together in case I have a short.

 

[fisherus]

I would really appreciate everyone's comments be addressed to a total off-grid system, if possible. it will cut down this inquirers confusion between comments. I am looking for help in a total off-grid installation of a Sol-Ark12K system with 11,680W of solar panels.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

I would really appreciate everyone's comments be addressed to a total off-grid system, if possible. it will cut down this inquirers confusion between comments. I am looking for help in a total off-grid installation of a Sol-Ark12K system with 11,680W of solar panels.

Do you have a diagram of exactly what you've done so far? If you can post it, that would go a long way in helping the thread to help you.

 

[yellowjeep2850]

my thoughts are your first panel that the solark is supplying power to, is considered main panel , therefore it needs to be bonded to the ground rods , and all other equipment should be bonded by a bonding wire to the main panel

 

[Zwy]

Repeat. A non-grid system has No Reference to an earth ground rod. Except for any lightning protection and that should be outside the system..
In a non-grid system, The ac current references the inverter case for the short circuit protection.

Wrong, the reason is many things in nature can cause voltage potential; an example is wind can cause static electricity to build and needs to be discharged. There are many other things that can cause voltage potential, this is just one example.

The primary purpose of any grounding system is to create a 0V potential reference.

 

[yellowjeep2850]

Wrong, the reason is many things in nature can cause voltage potential; an example is wind can cause static electricity to build and needs to be discharged. There are many other things that can cause voltage potential, this is just one example.

The primary purpose of any grounding system is to create a 0V potential reference.

again my thoughts grounding is to protect the humans from being electrocuted

 

[timselectric]

my thoughts are your first panel that the solark is supplying power to, is considered main panel , therefore it needs to be bonded to the ground rods , and all other equipment should be bonded by a bonding wire to the main panel

Yes, this would be the proper way.
Code says "the first means of disconnect". Which since the Sol-Ark has a breaker. That would be it. But, it's much easier to do it all at the first loads panel.
And, it would give the same results.

 

[Zwy]

I am totally off-grid.

It does not matter if on grid or off grid. You still want a 0V voltage potential across the system as it is a structure tied to earth. That requires earthing, regardless of what many here will tell you.

When it comes to systems such as an RV which has tires insulating it from earth, then it can be a floating system. The reason why is when under inverter power, N-G bond will occur back to the source or N-G bond in a breaker panel.

 

[Zwy]

again my thoughts grounding is to protect the humans from being electrocuted

You need a 0V voltage potential reference for this to occur.

Without a 0V voltage potential, you may not have ground fault protection.

 

[timselectric]

You need a 0V voltage potential reference for this to occur.

Without a 0V voltage potential, you may not have ground fault protection.

 

[Zwy]

Wrong
I guess that doodles made a second account.

What ever Tim.

But I know I'm correct.

 

[Zwy]

Zwy said:
You need a 0V voltage potential reference for this to occur.

Without a 0V voltage potential, you may not have ground fault protection.

Also wrong

Yes, that is correct and why N-G are bonded.

 

[timselectric]

I'm so confused.
I don't even know who is talking. lol

 

[FilterGuy]

Posted this before post 53. That is true for commercial heavy duty lighting protection on large buildings.
But they don't "attract lightning".

OK I did some fast study. A lightning protection system requires an earth ground. There are different ways to do this. multiple rods driven into the earth is the most common. There are two thoughts on this, ONE; the static is bled into the ground before it builds to a direct heavy strike. Universally accepted by most experts until 50 years ago.. TWO; the strike is directed into the ground by the installed circuits. Presented by some modern experts during the past 50 years. My belief from observation that both are true. There are fewer strikes with grounded systems than with no system.
It is accepted by all; there must be a earth ground, one or more rods driven into the earth. It is also accepted by all, Such system = Will Not Attract Lightning.
It is accepted by code and solar installation experts that solar panel frames must be grounded to an earth ground rod or more. Systems I have examined all have multiple rods tied together with copper wire..

All true, but I would add to it

What lightning strikes is determined more by it's height and location than what it is made of. If you have a tall tree right next to a short metal structure, the tree is far more likely to be hit than the metal structure.

A lightning protection system is designed with air terminals that are higher than the items they are attempting to protect.

Lightning Protection Systems are separate from the Electrical Grounding systems for power and control wiring and should not share grounding electrodes.

In the following pictures of Chinese, US and french launch complexes, you can see the extra towers erected for lightning protection. If they could adequately protect the rockets by grounding the main tower, they would have not built the extra towers.

 

[timselectric]

Zwy said:
You need a 0V voltage potential reference for this to occur.

Without a 0V voltage potential, you may not have ground fault protection.


Yes, that is correct and why N-G are bonded.

Yes, the neutral ground bond, is how breakers and fuses are triggered.
This is what creates 0v.

 

[Zwy]

I'm so confused.

I've noticed you are definitely confused when it comes to 0V voltage potential.

Go back to Mike Holt's literature and study harder.

I don't even know who is talking. lol

 

[Zwy]

Yes, the neutral ground bond, is how breakers and fuses are triggered.
This is what creates 0v.

Ahhhh, you are catching on.

Wasn't that hard now was it?

 

[timselectric]

Ahhhh, you are catching on.

Wasn't that hard now was it?

I have never said that the N/G bond didn't create 0v.
Only that a ground rod doesn't.
Most people don't realize, that the ground rod isn't to connect the ground system to earth. Its purpose is to connect earth to the grounding system.