Building the sickest ® VAWT ever. Brilliant minds unite please!!

[brandnewb]

ok time for plan Z + ∞ (to whom the joke eluded them that is the infinity sign )

Now what is the status I can already hear in the background. You better have a good explanation to not be ready yet.

ahhh man. again from the background? Is not my wife bashing at me enough?

Anyway. No more timing belt for now. I need more skills and time to keep playing with that because it is difficult to select the right belt unless you know what you are doing. Also your prints will take longer and consume more filament.

The latest (please let this work print) did it's job. I highly recommend those who print to keep printing with PLA. That stuff is not giving up without a fight.

This time it was the height (not enough) of the printed teeth, of the print that allowed for the belt to just 'wander' too much.

So I said F$%^ this!!

If one can print timing belt pulleys then one can print sprockets, and far more economic at that.




A few notes;

1) I absolutely no longer care about what sound levels my drive will produce. 40 DB at 10 meters is almost undetectable for humans.
Even if this chain will go jet engine sound levels then guess what?

haha it will be last my neighbors ever hear so then it really does not matter how much noise I make in the future does it ?

2) still this little internal prair.

 

[brandnewb]

ohh wow. I just saw the error I made.

DB is a level of air pressure fluctuations. So 40DB at 10M distance is still human talking levels of sound.

What I meant to say is that if the drive does not make more noise than people talking from close by then at 10 meters no one will be able to care about it.

 

[brandnewb]

and and and. For my American family. you've seen it yes?

How when we want to take things up a notch we must use American made products

it's just a joke gang dont get all tangled up about it. But it was a good one though. If only timing wise

 

[brandnewb]

hahahha ok ok I know I am weird.

thus I felt the need to shout from the roofs that I just passed my motor license exam (all 3 of them).

which means that I will probably ride my bike, although fully insured, into a facade near to you anytime soon

hah but nah. The reason for this addition is to also make it known that life does not revolve only about turbines. Perhaps that can also explain why sometimes I am a bit slow.

Now I know we have some low key, no expectations and vows related, biker communities here in the NL. But riding through the US especially when the terrain goes diverse then I am game.

 

[justgary]

If only timing wise

I see how you did that... LOL.

 

[brandnewb]

I love it when people can see the intend

 

[brandnewb]

argg now by brain gets all weird again. one of my special traits that is both a hindrance and at seldom times a benefit.

Now I feel the urge to explain the joke to the rest of the world because you added a political level to it that I did not intend only making the joke even better

You see it was about the fact that the chain is manufactured in the US of A. And that it came shipped looking all tangled (while a chain never really does tangle unless badly handled.) And then I mirror that to the timing belt and there is when the timing wise aspect came in.

But you took it to a whole new level involving current USA politics and import tariffs and what have we.

I could not have done it better my self

 

[offgridandy]

I got the joke; but may I suggest you don't give up the day job just yet.

 

[brandnewb]

I got the joke; but may I suggest you don't give up the day job just yet.

btw, since you are of the opinion sharing type. Can you please give your opinion between timing belt vs chain and sprocket? or are your opinions more of the arm chair popcorn type

welcome btw to the thread. I really do mean that if you have any worthwhile input then please do not be shy.

 

[brandnewb]

for example worthwhile input would have been something along the following lines;

great that you are ditching timing belts and pulleys and replace them with chains and sprockets.
But if your sprocket thickness is not very thick you might run into strength issues when having very little teeth. Like you would have on the sprocket on the motor.

Now for large amount of teeth like on the PMA then many teeth can share the stresses so then PLA might well be a great choice still.

Maybe consider going for an off the shelf steel low teeth count sprocket for your motor. It might safe you headache and disappointment..

Now if all fails then you can always try a chain with a wider space so your prints can be much thicker.

-----

And then I would respond with;

Ahhh yes. great catch. Thank you.

Consider it done!!

 

[brandnewb]

I don't like arm chairs. They hurt my back. Nothing ever of benefit to society came from an arm chair.

 

[justgary]

Maybe consider going for an off the shelf steel low teeth count sprocket for your motor. It might safe you headache and disappointment..

I have not checked this, but my assumption is that you could put several hundred watts through a bicycle chain and sprocket without failure. I'm not convinced that PLA will ever give that much performance.

 

[brandnewb]

I have not checked this, but my assumption is that you could put several hundred watts through a bicycle chain and sprocket without failure. I'm not convinced that PLA will ever give that much performance.

PLA will give that much no problem. only when printed correctly and given a chance in terms of size.

But you did hit on a weak spot in where I have a regular bicicle chain that should be able to do maybe 400W without complaining.

We need something more scaled up so I am going to return this chain and get something more sized to purpose.

Thanks Gary!!

 

[brandnewb]

ok gang, so the following is strictly confidential.

If word gets out I am done for so keep this on the down low.

But I contacted my buddy at the MotoGP. I cant say from which team he is but he has the details on the latest chains.. couch KTM. cough.

He told me he\d be able to get me some couple of meters of those chains. worth like 50K per meter at minimum.

 

[brandnewb]

@OzSolar I don't know how they found you but they did.


Their on to you brother.


KTM is after you now.


My source tells me it is something about this weird transmission system you have in your bulldozer that their after.
They are gonna come in strong.


Get armed bro!!

and you did not hear it from me!

 

[brandnewb]

i hope some of you readers can enjoy some weird antics

 

[brandnewb]

ok ok I just got some good news. My buddy Dutch flew in at KTM HQ and told them to stand down.

Needles to say they complied.

You are off the hook Oz.



I hope all enjoyed this little story telling.

Sometimes I do that.

You see. In heart I always wanted to be a writer. Yet I never honed the craft.

 

[brandnewb]

While we build we also must destroy.



what is going up in flames here are old memories that never should be remembered let alone found by others.

then back to the chain selection.

A 3 ⁄₈ ″-pitch, 1-inch-wide HV silent chain with a 25-tooth driver on our 28 mm motor shaft easily carries 4 kW at 8500 rpm and leaves >10× power reserve.

All in favor? If I hear nothing then I am going for that.

Nah.... I do want to hear something. Something like.

Yeah dude. that might rock hard!!

 

[brandnewb]

i think 25mm wide is too much of a good thing. I think we can aim for at max 2KW and then also see how well 12.5mm of chain will behave. I am well confident that PLA as per usual will play ball with those dimensions. Also taking into account the amount of teeth the PMA sprocket will have.

The sprocket for the motor might fail with but only 13 to 19 teeth. But then we can always go off the shelf.

What is one's gut feeling regarding this?

 

[brandnewb]

today I took my family to a windmill nearby

De Vriendschap te Weesp

In 1694 werd door vier windkorenmolenaars en brandewijnbranders bij de Domeinen en Rekenkamer van Holland het recht van de wind aangevraagd voor de te bouwen achtkante stellingkorenmolen, die Het Bosch zou worden genoemd. Een naam die in 1810 veranderd zou worden in Het Bosch in het Anker waarna...

www.molens.nl

even at around 4m/s wind speed, according to the guy in charge, it cranks out around 40 HP. which translates to around 40/1,3 = 30.7 kw.

why does this seem off? the diam is about 26M of the mill..

A according to the wind turbine calculator there should be only 20.812 KW available in the wind. Let alone what can be extracted.

I think the mill master just was mistaken.

 

[brandnewb]

also at another mill we visited before that they mill guy told me to expect like 54 KW when translated to conditions like at that moment. around 4m/s.
But he was not interested in harvesting that as they are only pumping water.

now even if only half of the values mentioned are realistic then I still am going to buy a mill

 

[brandnewb]

btw never forget the rise of the phoenix.

with a little imagination you understand what that is supposed to mean.

 

[brandnewb]

in the meantime I think I am forming an intuition on what was meant with this high density low field strength 'will never work'

Well work it will but I am guessing the following;

High density translates to a high frequency of field reversal which translates to a high open circuit voltage at lower RPMs when compared to the more traditional configurations.

We have already seen that low RPMs (even at this rather large diameter) does not translate well into amps. My latest hunch is that that is because the magnets do not have enough angular velocity to generate 'power'
Especially given that the magnets are certainly not toys but also not of the bigger kind.

Only experiments can help me as even asking my parrot just goes far too technical far too quickly with the added bonus of most likely this damned AI is wrong most of the times. And confidently wrong at that.

 

[brandnewb]

arggg. if only things were always simple as eating pie.



I honed in on a chain. This one will rock hard!!

Rollenketting S52 lange steek - Rollenketting langesteek| INDI

Rollenketting S52 lange steek

www.indi.nl

it will allow for a lot of PLA between the rollers. Both in width and height as to give it a fair chance of pulling it's intended load.

But as I tried an easy way of printing the sprockets I ran into issues. You see this S52 chain is not something I found a generator for yet online or for OpenSCAD.

So here I go again modeling things my self, knowing full well that this equates to burning time and a lot of trail and error.


Should there be anyone that knows a good (so not the Fusion360 or other cloud based terror out there) way of modeling/generating sprockets then now is your time to shine !

 

[brandnewb]

here goes our parrot again but I lack the knowledge to validate its output.;

Key facts for S52 chain (ISO 487 / DIN 8189)

Property	Value
Pitch p	38.10 mm (1 ½ ″)
Roller Ø	15.24 mm
Minimum tensile strength	18 kN (average 36 kN)
“Maximum working load” (USA Roller-Chain data)	1 389 lb ≈ 6.18 kN

How that translates to power

Allowable chain pull (conservative) ≈ tensile ÷ 12 → 18 kN ÷ 12 ≈ 1.5 kN
Power = Force × Speed → P [kW] = F [kN] × v [m/s]

Pitch-line speed v	Power @ 1.5 kN pull	Power @ 6.2 kN “working load”
0.3 m s⁻¹ (very slow conveyor)	≈ 0.5 kW	≈ 1.9 kW
0.5 m s⁻¹	≈ 0.8 kW	≈ 3.1 kW
1 m s⁻¹	≈ 1.5 kW	≈ 6.2 kW
2 m s⁻¹	≈ 3.0 kW	≈ 12 kW
3 m s⁻¹	≈ 4.5 kW	≈ 18 kW
5 m s⁻¹ (practical upper limit)	≈ 7.5 kW	≈ 31 kW

The vendor’s 6.2 kN “working load” already includes some margin. Always apply your own service factor for shock, lubrication, and mis-alignment.

Bottom line

• S52 is an agricultural / conveyor chain, not a high-speed power-transmission chain.
• At around 1 m s⁻¹ chain speed, design on ~1.5 kW (safe) to ~6 kW (aggressive).
• For anything above ~3 kW or speeds above ~5 m s⁻¹, move to a true transmission chain (e.g., 10B-1 or duplex 08B-2).