Camper Van install, Information overload

[Pisti]

Hi,

I'm new in this forum, thus my questions might have tons of threads already.

I'm researching a solar installation for my Ford Transit Camper Van conversion, the amount of information is huge and really difficult to make a decision.

Perhaps through my "wish list" someone can point me in the right direction:

a. 850-1000W solar panel installation
b. It seems to me that a 12V installation will be more efficient despite the upfront cost of cables and connections, a technical argument/suggestion is welcome here.
c. Since this van is for leisure, it will be parked in my driveway during weekdays. I'm planning to use this installation to run my home AC or use it as backup during blackouts. It won't be integrated with the grid.
d. Based on "c" what's the recommended minimum inverter? I believe a 3KW pure sine wave inverter should be enough, any thoughts?
e. I'm also planning to use such available solar power to charge my EV (Chevy Bolt), any special consideration in the project?
f. I want short power and alternator imput as well.
g. I'm planning to install most of the components (except the batteries) in the voids on transit walls, so I'm OK with multiple components, however a integrated solution is desirable, suggestions?

example:

 

[Isaac-1]

I personally feel a 3000 watt inverter is right at the largest inverter that is practical with a 12V system, and given your likely loads, a high quality 2000 watt inverter might be a more practical choice, just be aware a lot of the cheaper inverters out there seem to be rated by wishful thinking of the marketing department. In addition to this fitting 850+ watts worth of panels on the roof of that size van may be a challenge. I am not saying it can't be done, just it may require more effort than it is worth.

Can you share with us how you plan to accomplish item C, I am not saying it can't be done, just that there are many ways to potentially do this, most are questionable in their economic advantage.

 

[Pisti]

Hi Isaac-1, thank you for your reply!
I have a Ford Transit High Roof extended, based on my measurements I can fit 3 x 200W + 2 x 100W + 1 x 50W and still have a small area to fit a Maxx fan.

Regarding "c" I'm planning to use an automatic transfer switch such as the one exemplified here:

I installed the AC myself and can easily access the grid distribution.

 

[RV8R]

Hi @Pisti

IMO, it would be best to design your system before buying or building any of it.

The Transit has some factory connection points for a DC2DC if that is a desire? This can also provide a fair amount of charger energy depending upon what your Transit has from the factory. Loads of information in this thread;

B2B using CCP1

www.fordtransitusaforum.com

Once you are past the Transit specific items ,,, mostly alternator charging, then I suppose your system is just like any other.


The 1st step in designing your system is identifying the loads you intend & a load chart / energy audit to pencil out your energy requirements. That will point you in the right direction to designing your system.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not clear, have you already purchased the items shown in your photos? If not, I hope I can help you make better purchase decisions than I did.

What your intended loads? AKA, what do you want to power with your system. Look at @MisterSandals signature and he has a good link for how to do an "energy audit". An audit will tell you fairly accurately how many energy you will consume per day. Knowing this will help you discern how much solar, battery and size of inverter and charge controller. Without this info, you can get caught blindly buying the wrong parts for your van, which is an expensive lesson (ask me how I learned!)

 

[Isaac-1]

Note you can't just mix and match solar panels like that without taking potentially major performance hits, see https://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/ and https://footprinthero.com/solar-panel-series-and-parallel-calculator

 

[Pisti]

Thank you all for your advice, here are some answers I have so far.

@ RV8R
The CCP is located near the collum where Transit have the roof factory holes to guide the solar cables down on the cargo area, that's why assembling the solar components on the wall behind the driver is so compelling.

@ Tomthumb62
Thank you for sharing that link, I used the spreadsheet and it seems that for the van load 3KW inverter is an overkill, however, it will be just right to power my home AC, here's what I got on the van load:



@ Isaac-1
I did some reading on the issue you pointed out, if I understand correctly, for instance, if i use these Renogy panels I should have no problem since they are roughly in the same Vmp range https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRJYJ22/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Here's what I got from the handly calculator you provided:

In general what's the acceptable loss when combining solar panels?

Following you guys suggestions, I feel more confident in defining an squematic diagram with required parts, then will need some help defining the best maker/models for the main components.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Thank you all for your advice, here are some answers I have so far.

@ RV8R
The CCP is located near the collum where Transit have the roof factory holes to guide the solar cables down on the cargo area, that's why assembling the solar components on the wall behind the driver is so compelling.

@ Tomthumb62
Thank you for sharing that link, I used the spreadsheet and it seems that for the van load 3KW inverter is an overkill, however, it will be just right to power my home AC, here's what I got on the van load:

View attachment 183363

@ Isaac-1
I did some reading on the issue you pointed out, if I understand correctly, for instance, if i use these Renogy panels I should have no problem since they are roughly in the same Vmp range https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CRJYJ22/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

Here's what I got from the handly calculator you provided:
View attachment 183366
In general what's the acceptable loss when combining solar panels?

Following you guys suggestions, I feel more confident in defining an squematic diagram with required parts, then will need some help defining the best maker/models for the main components.

Excellent! You did the energy audit, this will save you so much headache and money!

As someone who bought a full Renogy kit, I warn you against that brand. Some maybe b 5-8 years ago, they were a better company. They have since been bought out and quality and customer service has suffered.

Aside from those two issues of the Renogy brand, they are no longer competitive, in my opinion. Their designs are maddening and have caused me many headaches. I have since replaced my Renogy kit with Victron and the headaches have gone away.

Victron is vastly better designed. They have also reduced prices on some of their equipment. For example, the Renogy Rover 30A MPPT charge controller retails for $139.99 at Renogy.com ($116 at Amazon). I paid $89 for this MPPT four years ago. Why the huge increase in price?? And the Bluetooth dongle is required for programming all of the parameters, another $39. I paid $129 total back then. Would be $155 from Amazon today.

In September 2023, I paid $192 for the similarly sized Victron SmartSolar 100/30, which has Bluetooth built in. Just a few weeks ago, Victron lowered prices on many devices, including the SmartSolar MPPT series. Price today from a good reputable dealer (important for any needed support or warranty) is $128.35, free shipping.

So it’s a no brainer, at least for the MPPT. Victron is actually cheaper than the crap Renogy sells.

Finally, as for Renogy panels, those usually still get a thumbs up in this community. I disagree:

In August 2023, I compared output between the Sunpower 100W flexible panel and the Renogy 200W rigid solar folding suitcase. The flexible panel was placed flat on the ground. The Renogy was angled toward the sun. The flexible Sunpower produced about 15% more watts than the Renogy!! This defies logic and I tried several times to confirm this. I used a good multimeter to measure voltage and amp output and came up with the same results each time. I tried adjusting the angle of the Renogy suitcase and it didn’t help improve the output. Why the difference? I don’t know for sure, but knowing that the manufacturer of Sunpower is a company called Maxeon (made in France), I can best chalk it off to a guess that Renogy hired the cheapest solar panel manufacturer they could find, one with poor quality control.

Based upon your energy audit, I would recommend either a Victron Multiplus ( @sunshine_eggo can help you decide which model) or a Victron 12/3000, which I think is a 2400W inverter with an an excellent very low idle draw. Idle draw is extremely important in a van or mobile situation. If you have a high idle draw (current the inverter uses just to be powered on), then you need more panels and batteries to compensate. Batteries are expensive and take up space and panels are limited to your roof space or a pita if you want to setup portable ground panels. So a low idle draw reduces your choices. It was the main reason we sold our Renogy 2000W inverter, the idle draw was very high, consuming about 50% of our battery storage each day. Our new Victron inverter (1000W but amazing surge power to 2400W for 30s) consumes less than 15% of our battery now. What a relief for cloudy days!

Our inverter power needs are actually very low once I did a real energy audit, hence the Victron 12/1200VA Phoenix inverter (1200VA= approximately 1000-1100W due to power factor losses). If I needed more power, the 12/3000 model would be my choice as the idle draw is still very low despite it being almost 3x as powerful.

 

[Isaac-1]

You might want to double check those numbers, some of them don't seem to pass the sanity check (the max amp draw numbers) for a 12V system which you mention using in your initial post, and which I would assume from talking about wiring in parallel, as a rule of thumb you can expect about a 100 amp draw for every 1,000 watts of inverter capacity. You also don't talk about the type of battery you will be using, it is not just about amp hours, if you are using LiFePo4 then you also need to consider BMS amp rating, if lead acid you need to consider voltage sag under high amp loads. As to running all the solar panels in parallel you will have to deal with the 30 amp max capacity of the MC4 connectors, this can be done, but will likely require fusing each panel, and added wiring complexity with a bus bar, etc.I don't have the max ampacity ratings of those panels, which is probably in the detailed spec sheet, but is not listed in the ad copy. On the topic of solar losses, that is up to you to decide, however in some extreme cases it may be more than what is gained by adding the extra smaller panels.

 

[Rocketman]

Victron’s products are great! I full-time in a MotorHome. We have a Multiplus 12/3000 inverter and a diy 544ah LifePo4 battery and 1400w of solar. You said you want to run the home air conditioner with your system.

I put a Micro Air EZ start on my RV A/C’s - I can run one off inverter for about an hour (I might be able to go for two if I didn’t have to worry about running every thing else overnight). If it’s needed longer than an hour - I need to turn on the generator.

Be sure and do a good plan (and have it vetted) before you start buying stuff. For example, if you are putting a bunch of different sized panels on the roof, you will probably want several smaller mppt SCC’s and thus will need several sets of wires from the roof.

Good Luck

 

[RV8R]

You might want to double check those numbers, some of them don't seem to pass the sanity check (the max amp draw numbers) for a 12V system which you mention using in your initial post, and which I would assume from talking about wiring in parallel, as a rule of thumb you can expect about a 100 amp draw for every 1,000 watts of inverter capacity. You also don't talk about the type of battery you will be using, it is not just about amp hours, if you are using LiFePo4 then you also need to consider BMS amp rating, if lead acid you need to consider voltage sag under high amp loads. As to running all the solar panels in parallel you will have to deal with the 30 amp max capacity of the MC4 connectors, this can be done, but will likely require fusing each panel, and added wiring complexity with a bus bar, etc.I don't have the max ampacity ratings of those panels, which is probably in the detailed spec sheet, but is not listed in the ad copy. On the topic of solar losses, that is up to you to decide, however in some extreme cases it may be more than what is gained by adding the extra smaller panels.

I thought the same as @Isaac-1 when I read your initial post @Pisti

I have a low resolution understanding of what you are planning & needing to run, but a quick read thru your initial post & my thoughts were around the rough idea & numbers was I wonder how that will work in the real world.

Running any AC on batteries & solar is a steep task.