Paralyzed by information overload

[jdufford]

I have watched so many videos and I think I have it all together until it's time to actually implement something. I'm paralyzed by information overload! I currently have (3) and soon to be a total of (4) solar panels. Each are 370 Watts, 41V and 11amps. Will be making a mobile ground mount for them. Currently I have them connected to a cheap plug-in grid-tie inverter. Not ideal. I'm wanting to buy an inverter. I was hoping to start with a small setup and expand over time, initially without a battery, but I'll buy a battery if completely necessary. I don't want to buy something now though, that I can't use later as I expand. That's part of the trouble I'm having. I'm wanting to start using solar to offset some of my grid usage. I'm not sure the best way to do it. Without counting the cost of the solar panels themselves, can you give me ideas on starting a system in the $3k-$4K range? Not really looking to necessarily do net metering, but with what panels I've already got, I have to be careful as I've seen my meter start to go backwards a time or two in the late afternoon when nothing is really on in the house. It's my understanding that the smart meter reports back to the energy company once an hour. Does that sound right? We have a septic tank that has an aerator motor on a timer. I believe it runs 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off. The times I've seen the meter start to feed backwards is when the septic motor is not running. I don't have near enough panels currently to offset my usage so I don't believe the meter has ever been in a negative reading for any given hour.

I live in Ohio and have Duke Energy for my energy company, although our supplier is through the community aggregate. The delivery charges on my bill are greater than the actual energy charges. Ugh! I'd love the simplicity of an AIO but not opposed to going another route. I've started wondering if I should get a Victron because they're so reliable and I do realize they require multiple accessories. I'm okay with that as long as I know exactly everything I need. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Q-Dog]

It is difficult to add on to a small system, unless you use componenets that, like the Victron stuff, can be stacked for more capacity. There are other brands that can do stack for additional capacity, but Victron is what I know.

 

[hwy17]

You almost can't go wrong by starting with 1 48v Lifepower4 battery and then building your thoughts around that. EG4 3k, 6000xp, SW4048, lots of options to consider anchored around a 48v starting point.

 

[jdufford]

You almost can't go wrong by starting with 1 48v Lifepower4 battery and then building your thoughts around that. EG4 3k, 6000xp, SW4048, lots of options to consider anchored around a 48v starting point.

Thank you. I was thinking if I start even with just one battery, maybe it should be a 48V 100ah LiFePO4.

 

[Q-Dog]

You really need to start with a FINAL plan, then see how you can break that up into smaller pieces that will eventually get you to the final plan.

 

[Mattb4]

Unless you have an interconnect agreement, or eventually planning on having one, I would avoid using any pirate grid tie setup. The cheap plug in (120vAC) grid tie units are a fun toy and will get you into trouble if your utility catches you back feeding. If you are serious about solar start looking into an Off grid with GAB (Grid as Backup) AIO. This can be done as a critical load panel or even a Transfer switch setup. Understand that even the hybrid types with CT for Zero grid feed still require an interconnect agreement. Yes you will need batteries.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

You almost can't go wrong by starting with 1 48v Lifepower4 battery and then building your thoughts around that. EG4 3k, 6000xp, SW4048, lots of options to consider anchored around a 48v starting point.

Agree 100% with starting smaller and 48v if you plan for significant power (>3000w) later on. A big pro for a small but functional system is that you'll get hands-on experience and things will begin to get clearer.

My #1 advice is to pick a spot with room for expansion - more batteries, more inverters on the wall, more wiring, ... As things get clearer and you get the bug (solar is sooooo cool), you're going to want to expand

 

[jdufford]

Agree 100% with starting smaller and 48v if you plan for significant power (>3000w) later on. The big + is that a small but fully functional system will let you get 'hands-on' educated and things will begin to get clearer.

My #1 advice is to pick a spot with ROOM for expansion - more batteries, more inverters, more distribution panels, etc.... as you things get clearer and you get the bug, you're likely going to want to expand

My main panel (in the basement) is in an inconvenient location to build a setup next to it. So I'm thinking a different location in the basement. Shouldn't be a problem right? Ceiling is open. I can make room for solar panel expansion when husband agrees to let me put panels on the roof. We have a swimming pool that takes up a bit of space in the backyard. He says I can get many more panels if we move and get land but that wouldn't be for years.

 

[Q-Dog]

You can put panels on a pergola or other shade structure, a carport, a roof ... that is really the easy part. First come up with an idea of what you need. You can figure out the rest after you know what you need.

 

[Bluedog225]

A big fork in your road is grid tie or not.

I like Victron stuff but I’ll never tie to the grid. It will always be a stand-alone system.

Others will have to help with the grid tie stuff.

For Victron, look at the current connected kits. But don’t buy Victron batteries.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

My main panel (in the basement) is in an inconvenient location to build a setup next to it. So I'm thinking a different location in the basement. Shouldn't be a problem right? Ceiling is open. I can make room for solar panel expansion when husband agrees to let me put panels on the roof. We have a swimming pool that takes up a bit of space in the backyard. He says I can get many more panels if we move and get land but that wouldn't be for years.

Sure it's OK. My 'solar room' is 100ft away from the main panel in an opposite corner under the house. The issue for me was running wire to the main panel to tie in my solar inverters - but this is not 'bad' it's just extra effort and $ but I got the room I needed to expand. This pic is the result of 6 years of gradual expansion.


I'm off-grid w/grid assist so I distribute my solar produced power to my main panel via an ATS/MTS combination - e.g. small footprint at the main panel.


Depending on the inverter you buy (off-grid w/assist or hybrid), for 240v/120v AC you'll likely need to run at least 1 run of wire but maybe 2 runs (out and in). I'm US 240v/120v split-phase so that's 6awg THNN (3 wires + ground) from my inverter output to the main panel area. But its OK to run 100ft of wire from a functional perspective - there are inverter choices that do not have to be right next to the main AC panel.


PV wise, I have several hundred feet of wire to combine 51 panels over to the 'solar room'....

I started with 1 battery, 15 panels, and a single 2000w inverter powering a single 115v socket. Now I'm up to 51 panels, 10 batteries, and 24,000w of inverters.... just leave room to expand

 

[ricardocello]

But don’t buy Victron batteries.

I have to admit, I don’t know why anyone ever would do that.

 

[jdufford]

You really need to start with a FINAL plan, then see how you can break that up into smaller pieces that will eventually get you to the final plan.

Yes, I agree. Kind of hard to know what final plan I can get to where I'm at. I'd like to eventually get more panels and put some them on the roof. Husband not on board with that yet. We have a pool in the backyard that takes up a bit of space. So I'm wanting to start with the 4 panels I have but be able to expand my system if (when lol) he agrees to let me put some on the roof. I'm afraid to buy too big of an inverter, my 4 panels may not be enough to even run it.

 

[jdufford]

A big fork in your road is grid tie or not.

I like Victron stuff but I’ll never tie to the grid. It will always be a stand-alone system.

Others will have to help with the grid tie stuff.

For Victron, look at the current connected kits. But don’t buy Victron batteries.

Do you have Victron stuff?

 

[Bluedog225]

Yes. I’m all in with Victron. And SOK 48 volt rack batteries. One 48/5000 Quattro and may get another. Not cheap. Works. Solid. Good support available.

Sort of like the Toyota truck of solar.

But I don’t think any capability of grid tie. And no UL listing if that matters to you. They grew out of the mobile (boat/RV) market is my understanding.

Once you pick a path, the rest will fall into place. but buying stuff before you know where you are going gets expensive.

No regerts.

 

[Browse]

EG4 6000XP $1449
EG4 Lifepower4 $1267

Done.

 

[Bluedog225]

That all in one post above is the other path. Tempting as heck.

Research your vendors here before you buy. Some good; some bad.

 

[jdufford]

You can put panels on a pergola or other shade structure, a carport, a roof ... that is really the easy part. First come up with an idea of what you need. You can figure out the rest after you know what you need.

My back yard is surrounded on two sides by trees. We do have a shed in the back of the yard that I could put some panels on; I guess some sun is better than none. In the summer it will get more obviously, but at this time of year with the location of the sun, the top of the shed is completely shaded by the trees by 3-4pm. Other than that, we have a covered deck. It's a second story deck and our basement is walkout. So it's really almost 3 stories up from the back. My house faces east/west. Husband is a firefighter. He's not afraid of getting on the roof, but at his age (56) with bad knees, getting up there to install solar panels is not in his forseable future (but it's in mine!! lol). Not really a whole lot more space to add panels. I should put some pics up. I bet you guys could give me some ideas.

 

[jdufford]

Yes. I’m all in with Victron. And SOK 48 volt rack batteries. One 48/5000 Quattro and may get another. Not cheap. Works. Solid. Good support available.

Sort of like the Toyota truck of solar.

But I don’t think any capability of grid tie. And no UL listing if that matters to you. They grew out of the mobile (boat/RV) market is my understanding.

Once you pick a path, the rest will fall into place. but buying stuff before you know where you are going gets expensive.

No regerts.

If I don't get a grid tied system, I'd be moving loads to a separate sub panel, right?

 

[jdufford]

Sure it's OK. My 'solar room' is 100ft away from the main panel in an opposite corner under the house. The issue for me was running wire to the main panel to tie in my solar inverters - but this is not 'bad' it's just extra effort and $ but I got the room I needed to expand. This pic is the result of 6 years of gradual expansion.
View attachment 205322

I'm off-grid w/grid assist so I distribute my solar produced power to my main panel via an ATS/MTS combination - e.g. small footprint at the main panel.
View attachment 205323

Depending on the inverter you buy (off-grid w/assist or hybrid), for 240v/120v AC you'll likely need to run at least 1 run of wire but maybe 2 runs (out and in). I'm US 240v/120v split-phase so that's 6awg THNN (3 wires + ground) from my inverter output to the main panel area. But its OK to run 100ft of wire from a functional perspective - there are inverter choices that do not have to be right next to the main AC panel.

View attachment 205325
PV wise, I have several hundred feet of wire to combine 51 panels over to the 'solar room'....

I started with 1 battery, 15 panels, and a single 2000w inverter powering a single 115v socket. Now I'm up to 51 panels, 10 batteries, and 24,000w of inverters.... just leave room to expand

That's absolutely amazing!! I love to hear where you started from and where you are now!