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Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?


There have been one or two concerns of late that the IPCC’s scare tactics have sent half the world doolally with climate fear, especially the impressionable young. These criticisms seem to have been taken on board. UN Secretary General Antonio ‘Code Red’ Guterres hailed SYR as a “survival guide to humanity”. All we need to do, continued the Left-wing Portuguese radical, is for all countries to bring forward their Net Zero plans by a decade. Dr. Friederike Otto from Imperial College specialises in so-called ‘attribution’ studies and the pseudoscience of claiming specific weather events are caused by the activities of humans. She helped write the latest report and was also in optimistic mood telling the BBC: “If we aim for 1.5°C and achieve 1.6°C, that is still much better than saying, it’s too late and we are doomed and I’m not even trying. And I think what this report shows very, very clearly is there is so much to win by trying.”

Back on Planet Reality, it might be noted that there are a number of possible disadvantages connected to removing fossil fuels, a reliable, inexpensive energy supply that powers 80% of global needs, within less than 17 years. Starvation, death, widespread warfare, societal and economic breakdown and rampant disease being just a few that come immediately to mind.
 
They should really drop the first 'C' in their name. Some of the fact-checks on them are hilarious.

Like what? Calling out the corrupted ICC?
But now i understand, looks like you are the "vaxx" (aka untested genetic slurry) believer. I rest my case. If before i gave you a tiny bit of doubt, if you are a vaxx believer at this stage in the game, i am afraid its hopeless (or are you a "progressive" shill? i dont know but my gut feeling tells me thats a solid yes)

Even Dinosaur media admits.
 
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...climate-doom report falsely claims global temperatures are highest for 125,000 years
Thanks for another opportunity to show how misdirection is used to sow confusion and make folks believe a false narrative.

First, the IPCC doesn't measure temperatures, write data, or predict anything. They assemble and report on what the science says from around the world. The actual data is from prestigious scientific organizations (e.g., NASA) that run climate models and published scientific data. So "blaming" something on the IPCC is essentially just trying to undermine all of the published data in one go.

It's also well known that the temperature has been higher than now, a few times in the last million years so why would anyone lie about that when it's easy to check? Here's the record for the last million years:

Temperature-fluctuations-past-million-years.jpg

So yeah, the "current" line does look like it crosses over at 125,000 years ago. So, the quote sounds accurate to me.

But who cares? Smoke and mirrors folks, designed to get you to doubt.

In the last million years, the temperature hasn't gone over ~+2C.
The problem is our trajectory has us headed to ~+4C by the end of the century if we continue at our current rate, the rate of temperature increase is currently faster than ever recorded in history.
During the age of Dinosaurs, when the temperature was perhaps 4C degrees higher than today, there were crocodiles living above the Arctic Circle.

The Daily Septic is well known for misquoting and talking things out of context... so what did the IPCC actually say in the SYN report they linked up about 125,000 years ago? I don't know! I searched the entire report for "125" and came back with no hits. Feel free to research it yourself, but sounds like **** made up by ******* for the ******.
 
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I call baloney and you have to stop on selective reading.

"
The Daily Sceptic has reported on a number of science papers that track the higher temperatures in the past, in particular the period since the last ice age started to lift about 12,000 years ago. A sample can be read here, here and here. Earlier this year, a group of European scientists published a paper analysing tree remains that suggested there was a much warmer climate in the Alps during most of the last 10,000 years.

‘Settled’ science, it might be observed, needs consensus from the world and his wife. The recent IPCC minutes, for instance, noted that the SYR team, “should ensure policy relevance and usefulness for policymakers”. Needless to say this is not to the taste of some independent-minded scientists, especially those retired with no need to hustle for state research or Left-wing foundation funds. In fact they can be quite disobliging about the entire IPCC process. In a recent paper titled ‘Challenging “Net Zero” with Science‘, Emeritus Professors William Happer and Richard Lindzen of Princeton and MIT respectively called Net Zero “scientifically invalid and a threat to the lives of billions of people”. In fact they have previously dismissed the peer review system around climate change as a “joke” – pal review, not peer review, they quipped. The IPCC is “government controlled and only issues government-dictated findings”.

“Climate science is awash with manipulated data, which provides no reliable scientific evidence,” they added."



What is a “Global temperature”?

Do government funded data adjusters just stick a thermometer under the earths tongue? So, what was the “global temperature” in 1920? How about 1840? What was it in 1630? Well they won’t know 1630 because that was 100 years before the thermometer was invented. Let’s face it, the temperature record of earth is a total jumble of unreliable sparse thermometer readings, where thermometers were mainly in a few wealthy western countries, very few in poor countries, none in the oceans which is 70% of the planet, and out of all that clutter where they just guess what the temperature was if they have no data, we are expected to believe that some year was one hundredth of a degree warmer than some other year based on readings from non-existent thermometers that were never designed for those type of accuracies.

United Nations people think if they stand at a podium with lots of world press and photographers and simply pronounce TRUTH that TRUTH has now been declared. NOPE, truth cannot be pronounced. Truth needs evidence. This is the biggest pseudo scientific fraud ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public. Almost everything these people say is a smidgeon of the truth elevated into a planetary emergency with zero evidence.

Everything that happens according to these people is “Not inconsistent with what we would expect in a warmer world”, which basically means everything that happens is caused by humans. This is NOT science. When what you say cannot be falsified it is NOT science. When impending doom relies almost entirely on the output from un-validated fanciful models that have so far been totally wrong then this is NOT science. It is “Official Science” which has simply been declared from a political body, not a scientific one called the IPCC, whose conclusions are all POLITICAL.

Start thinking for yourself


ROFL
AverageTempEarth-1679409246.994.png


EVEN MORE LOL
CO2-Temp_Correlation-1679409096.9686.jpg
 
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I call baloney and you have to stop on selective reading.
AverageTempEarth-1679409246.994.png
Thanks for showing another common PR trick design to convince and reinforce deniers.

Note how amazingly flat the curve looks it because of the scale used. That scale is designed to hide the truth, here's one with a little more precision from NOAA:

global_gis_2022_chart.png
 
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Yeah, its BS. 1 Degree of even manufactured BS data is just that - total BS.
 
Thread Recap, Opposing View:


If Solar Panels Are So Clean, Why Do They Produce So Much Toxic Waste?

Not so green: Renewable energy’s land use problem
California Blackouts Have Begun. Thank ‘Green Energy’ | National Review
The Environmental Impact of Lithium Batteries
"Green" Energy Is a Scam. It Isn't MEANT to Work.
Why California’s Climate Policies Are Causing Electricity Blackouts
Electricity Shortage Warnings Grow Across U.S.
Explained: Why Is Electricity So Expensive In Norway Right Now?


Technocracy: The Operating System For The New International Rules-Based Order
This link should be required reading for anyone who is paying attention. Covers a lot of reasons for the seemed crazyness we have been experiencing in the last several years.

Manmade climate change is completely made up BS (See Technocracy link above)

 
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Yeah, its BS. 1 Degree of even manufactured BS data is just that - total BS.
Thanks for posting that as it again provides an opportunity to show how PR sites try to downplay things to keep deniers convinced.

Global warming is about slow but steady changes increasing in small increments year after year. Don't forget that small changes have big impacts, 4° wouldn't even register on your graph, but:
During the age of Dinosaurs, when the avegarge temperature was perhaps 4°C higher than today, crocodiles were living above the Arctic Circle.
Our current trajectory has us headed to ~+4C by the end of the century. That's why every nation on Earth (except Libia and a couple of other small ones) is actively working on becoming net neutral this century. How have countries been doing? It's in the CCPI reports.

Thread Recap, Opposing View:
See post 827 where, usually just by examing the very references provided, they are all disproved.
 
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See post 827 where, usually just by examing the very references provided, they are all disproved.

You have not disproved anything to anyone. You simply posted pro-establishment narrative, the problem is establishment has been caught lying on just about everything. Your belief in "safe and effective" "vaccines" does a huge deal to discredit pretty much everything you post linking to establishment.

I find it ironic that the slogan on your avatar "Works in theory, practice doesn't matter" pretty much summarizes your entire line of thinking on this subject - its all ivory tower theoretical wishful thinking that has absolutely no ground to reality.
 
I find it ironic that the slogan on your avatar "Works in theory, practice doesn't matter" pretty much summarizes your entire line of thinking on this subject
Hmmm, that's interesting evidence/conclusion. It does explain a lot about the references you post that are the opposite of what say they are.
 
This was interesting...


(If you listen to the next segment, Veni Weedy Vici is hilarious)​
 
Hmmm, that's interesting evidence/conclusion. It does explain a lot about the references you post that are the opposite of what say they are.
How so? The only thing i post in this thread is the answer to the question that you are asking -
Can Solar/Wind replace traditional energy if Battery Tech was to make a breakthrough. The answer is NO, even if batteries somehow made a magical breakthrough. Even then, Solar and Wind can not sustain generating required energy even at current level.
You then bring "manmade climate change" into the argument (complete scam to start with, invalidating pretty much all other arguments), and you focus on the "manmade climate change" agenda above all else.
Again, I am saying (and providing links from independent media, but even dinosaur media, but it requires critical thinking to analyze) basically saying that entire "manmade climate change" is scam, just like Covid was, and I also point out that all of your "data" is establishment data, that you continue to cram on everyone, while completely ignoring all opposing points (reposting establishment data and "fact checks" are not a valid rebuttal, just FYI).
You then attempt to discredit independent points of view by attacking independent journalists via some idiotic "fact checkers" that have been shown time and again to be completely controlled/paid for by the same establishment. Your take on covid "vaxxines" however was an eye opener, because you are basically confirming that you are de-facto shilling the official narrative. I would not call you a troll, but you are definitely shilling because you are being very disgenious about how you cherry pick data and ignore "real big" disputes with silly strawman arguments.
 
Can Solar/Wind replace traditional energy if Battery Tech was to make a breakthrough. The answer is NO, even if batteries somehow made a magical breakthrough.

A simple thought experiment proves you wrong. But the real question for me is why one would persist with this obviously false claim?

What would the world look like to you if we did switch to renewables?
 

How much ESS do we need (P2)​

TL;DR: Most consumption already occurs during daylight and there are things we can do to move more there which reduces ESS needs.

Still working through the implications, see post #875 for part 1. We need energy storage for when renewables aren’t generating power, but can we make simple tweaks to meaningfully reduce the amount of storage?

The EPA says the world consumed ~25.3 PWh of electricity in 2021, ~101 PWhe of energy overall (Musk subtracts out fossil fuels need to refine/transport/find fossil fuels at comes up with 82 PWhe as what's actually needed to replace fossil fuels). How much of that can we move into the daylight?

Let's look at it sector by sector.

Agriculture
You can't change when the cows need to be milked or the heat needed to keep the baby chicks warm at night.

The electricity used by the agriculture sector is accounted for in the electricity sector, so the power consumed
in this sector is direct fossil fuels for heat and machinery. Heating occurs primarily during the night and
machinery usage is primarily during the day. Those of you in the sector can make a better call than me, I'd say 70/30, or ~3 PWhe.
1625918155028-png.55661


Transportation
From the graph to the right, most transportation occurs during the day. But, that doesn't help us
as electric vehicles are recharged while they are at rest, not on the road (except the Aptera). Using
batteries to recharge other batteries incurs additional round-trip penalties.

Incentivizing charging EVs during the day at work (or more likely disincentivizing night-time
charging) could lead to a big reduction in the amount of grid storage that would be needed, this
becomes more practical as charging times decrease (e.g., CATL’s new sodium battery can be
completely recharged in 15 min). But it could greatly reduce the need for storage capacity.
Also, as vehicles become autonomous, they could become self-charging.​
Vehicles on the road by hour/day
1679572409532.png

Dunkelfaute Days
An enormous part of transportation is travel to & from work. Letting employees work from home, where possible, on dunkelfaute days would greatly reduce the need for that energy that day. That would greatly reduce the amount grid battery backup needed for periods of low production.​
So, just as we have snow days, we might have dunkelfaute days. Not traveling on dunkelfaute days would not only greatly reduce transportation energy needs, but also reduce industrial energy consumption as workers would have the day off.​
Using dunkelfaute days allows grid operators to have "breathing" space for when weather conditions are worse than anticipated, and not need to tremendously overscale battery backup.​

Industry, Commercial, Residential, & Electricity

As industrial, commercial, and residential are primarily the direct burning of fuels for heat, they'll eventually get
combined into electricity; so let's tackle them together.

As was mentioned previously, the graph to the right is outdated as it doesn't show the electrification of heating,
as such winter curves (blue) will more match summer cures (yellow) except that peak of the curve will occur during
the night when solar isn't available.

Based on that, I doubt there's anything northern climates can do to reduce ESS capacity.

We might be able to alter the workday from 9-5 to 8-4 to shift the curve left more towards solar hours. But most
would probably make use of the daylight time to do things outside because there is light and then retire to do
food prep after the sun went down (I would anyway). So again there would be no real savings.
1679573271911.png

Industry that requires a lot of overnight power might be required to coordinate with grid operators or have their own energy storage.

FERC & Grid Improvements
As mentioned previously, when the sun doesn't shine here, it does shine over there. The U.S. does not ship power coast to coast. But, there is a interstate system that most (The Texas Interconnection is maintained as a separate grid for political, rather than technical reasons) are connected to. This system can be strengthened at lower costs than adding additional days of ESS. The FERC serves as an economic regulator to prevent abuses, but again the system could be enhanced to make it better.

VPPs
Virtual Power Plants (VPP) have been in the pilot stage for years and may soon dominate the ESS market. Tesla for example has become an approved energy provider that utilities can buy power from and has a pilot program to sell excess capacity from customers' batteries (either powerwall or EV) into the grid. The money is passed on to their customers, so when the rates are high enough the battery can discharge to some preset rate and the owner makes money off their investment.

With 1,356,203 Teslas on the road, not including any other car maker, assuming they don't let the battery drain more than 50%, that's 68 GWh of ESS in garages immediately available. With 6,809,322 EVs globally at 50% and 100 kWh battery packs that's 340 GWh.

How Much Storage is Needed?
Master Plan 3 had 240 TWh for the world, but I still haven't seen the white paper to review the assumptions.
Using The Institute of Physics numbers it would be 227 TWh, but their paper is really only looking at Germany.
If you went the old adage of 3 days, you come up with the general number of 674 TWh.

What's that cost over 30 years?
At today's industrial cost of LFP of 118 $/kWh, than 240 TWh is $0.32/d per adult. With Sodium at $77/KWh, it's $0.21/d/p and if the iron flow battery (#840 & #849) can be believed it's $0.03/p per year.

Remember the 1.4 billion cars that needed to be replaced with EVs? If they all had 100 kWh packs and were hooked up to VPPs with no more than a 10% drain that would be 1.4e9 x 100e3 = 140 TWh of energy storage, but of that, only a small percentage would be available as most won't want to drain their batteries more than 20%; so ~28 TWh of storage. But it shows how important VPPs will be.
 
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When formerly legitemate source completely discredits itself by becoming an activist (And this has happened pretty much through out "official" science.)


 
The real agenda behind switch to EV


"So are the elites going to give up their private jets and travel by bicycle? Will they use mass transit? Of course they won’t.

As for their study, if cars are truly only driven 4 percent of the time, they can’t be causing much pollution.

In addition to this, the impact to the global economy of reducing auto sales will crush businesses, jobs, and countries’ financial positions.

Will you let the WEF control your freedom to drive your vehicle? Once they start walking themselves and taking mass transit, which they never will, then this is pure hypocrisy. I call BS to anyone who foolishly goes along with these absurd ideas."
 
Autonomous driving cars - pipe dream (And thats a good thing, another opportunity for total control over everyone)



LOL, total control over you is the goal!
 
I know @MurphyGuy believes his rude/derogatory messages are a socially acceptable way to try and shock someone to thinking more carefully.
For me at least, it's the exact opposite, I tend to discount everything in such posts. Obviously, just because someone is rude doesn't mean that they don't have a valid point and so it's not really smart to discount the whole thing. But like conspiracy theories, it requires great proof rather than be taken at face value. So, in reading #886 it dawned on me that I'd been horrifically wrong.

I do believe you have both honesty and integrity, that you hold true to your opinions. So I deeply apologize for any angst I may have caused, I just didn't truly understand before despite the warnings.

I'll leave it there; that we can as reasonable human beings be respectful of another, and can have different opinions.
 
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I know @MurphyGuy believes his rude/derogatory messages are a socially acceptable way to try and shock someone to thinking more carefully.
For me at least, it's the exact opposite, I tend to discount everything in such posts. Obviously, just because someone is rude doesn't mean that they don't have a valid point and so it's not really smart to discount the whole thing. But like conspiracy theories, it requires great proof rather than be taken at face value. So, in reading #886 it dawned on me that I'd been horrifically wrong.

I do believe you have both honesty and integrity, that you hold true to your opinions. So I deeply apologize for any angst I may have caused, I just didn't truly understand before despite the warnings.

I'll leave it there; that we can as reasonable human beings be respectful of another, and can have different opinions.

So he said she said.
The only problem is that all of your official sources have discredited themselves time and time again. Their refusal to admit being wrong on Covid idiocy and instead doubling and tripling down on the idiocy (to a point where official science is questioning that there are only 2 genders) basically invalidates all the other "fear porn" that they are pushing our way, with manmade climate change being the biggest.

Add to that the hypocracy by the biggest pundits (private jets, megamansions, "elite" lifestyle, etc) and the whole thing goes down the toilet. Do as they do, not as they say.
 

Does the blob of seaweed Help?​

TL;DR: Not really, it just makes a big mess and creates more CO2 to clean up (we could do better)

...A 10-13 million-pound blob of weeds is riding ocean currents, heading for the tip of Florida... a 5,000-mile-long belt of seaweed, ref

My first question was, if this year is double a normal year... what's that do to the climate models? No surprise, the models do actually incorporate it, but I'm not sure if they could have anticipated the doubling.

The reason it's so big this year (largest on record) is it got an early start due to warm weather (we even ran the air conditioner in December and January, that's unusual even here). Like trees, it's one of the normal ways CO2 is removed from the atmosphere.

So, while it grows it's absorbing CO2. When the seaweed rots, it's not sequestered... when it breaks up and sinks to the ocean floor a good part of it probably is sequestered.

When it washes up on shore, it would normally rot... but most cities collect it because the delicate aroma destroys tourism. The rub is, it generally goes into a landfill and isn't sequestered.
1679588049964.png

My second question was, how much carbon was in that blob? Just like the algae (#812), the mass is mostly water. Carbon accounts for around 30% of the dry mass of Sargassum, which means that with 7500 tons of wet weight Sargassum, you can sequester 1000 tons of CO2 ref. So, 13,000,000 lbs x 1 ton/2000 lbs / 7500 tons / ton CO2 = 0.9 tons of CO2. As 36.8 Gt of new CO2 was emitted in 2022, that represents 0.9 / 36,800,000,000 ... well a really tiny number. Even if the mass estimate is off by 100 it's still way small.
 
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"All of this scare-mongering is based on a small 200-year rise in global temperature of about 1°C. It is a scientific fact that such a rise has been seen many times in the past, possibly over much shorter time periods. The often-quoted 1.5°C warming ceiling has no grounding in science, and is a political invention. IPCC estimates of over 4°C warming by the end of the century are just the product of computer models."

The eminent Australian geology professor Dr. Ian Plimer has little time for opinionated activists. After all, geologists spend their life surrounded by the evidence thrown up by more than 600 million years of life on a habitable planet. In his view, the number of geologists who believe humans are responsible for most climate change can be counted on the fingers of a sawmill worker’s hand. In a recent article for Quadrant, he wrote:

During human times on Earth, the atmospheric temperature has varied by over 10°C, with increased disease and mortality during cold times. Humans thrived in far warmer times which saw longevity, populations, empires and wealth increase. There has been no recent increase in droughts, hurricanes, bushfires, temperature extremes, rainfall, flooding or death by climate disasters. A 30-second smart phone search shows this.
There has never been a public debate over climate change, he continued, yet we are told the science is settled.

Bearers of validated facts are denigrated, cancelled and deemed controversial by those who have no counter-argument, no ability to critically analyse, and who rely on self-interest and feelings. … We are reaping the rewards of 50 years of dumbing down education, politicised poor science, a green public service, tampering with the primary temperature data record, and the dismissal of common sense as extreme Right-wing politics.
But the United Nations knows best. In fact it “owns” climate science, at least according to its Under-Secretary for Global Communications, Melissa Fleming. We think the world should know it, she told delegates at a recent World Economic Forum disinformation seminar, so we partnered with Google to ensure only UN results appear at the top.
 
Not made yet no one making still uses lithium Stated in video not made because of cost so…. All of this is covered in the video… did you watch it? Vaporware until we can see it and afford to buy it. Repeat vaporware. He _ guy in video states a factory is in planning stages for usa. Every week or so some bubble head states on youtube that Tesla has a new battery coming too. About every week.
Show us products on the shelf… or being made right now. If you walked into a board saying you needed money from company board to buy this … what would they tell you?

did you not follow the computer developments over the years? Most is was hype or it took years…sometimes a long damn time. Sometimes never.

a 10 mb hard drive from ibm use to cost over $500 a 4 mb stick of memory was over $160

unless the market and production drastically changes then you are looking at years. YEARS.

JUST look at BB batteries they are assembled here and a single 12v 100ah BB smart battery is over $1000 for just 1. Let’s say this company gets built in 2025 how much do you think they will charge if everything is built here in USA vs the price of the expensive BB smart battery? They already stated in video it won’t be affordable…. even for automobiles and only aviation will pay the demanded high prices. The guy is already stating just half the technology vs get whole deal as advertised for the output. The space system and airlines have always had trickle down advancements for most everything besides nuclear power generation. Government heavy hand and mountains of red tape with nuclear will keep it down.

The chinese will simply steal the technology and send it back in at cheaper or equal prices and then the UsA will raise import tariffs…. The people getting bent over will be me and you. I’ve explained this over and over… because it historically happens over and over…. So it is like betting on a sure thing…. It won’t happen for years and then high prices will make what we have available now seem cheap. Some ppl still use lead acid.
 
"All of this scare-mongering is based on a small 200-year rise in global temperature of about 1°C. It is a scientific fact that such a rise has been seen many times in the past...
Truth & falsehoods, see #879.

There has never been a public debate over climate change
There's been non-stop debate in all manner of public forums such as this thread.

But science isn't resolved with a public debate, the speed of light was not determined by a public debate.
It is settled via the experimental process, repetition of experiments that have similar results, and no dissenting evidence.
 

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