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Cells from Luyuan and Box/BMS from Seplos to Australia

Mariner62 said:
I'm all ears ... I was planning to fully charge and final balance then apply a constant load until empty while monitoring the voltage and current each minute. Quick integration on a spreadsheet gets me Wh and Ah.
Is there a better way? (Without buying more kit?)
Click to expand...
This is all I plan to do - properly top balance all the cells, then do a discharge test of all 16 in series. The battery will only be as strong as the weakest cell, so this will give a good indication of the overall quality without the equipment and massive amount of time required to charge and discharge each individually. I'm not really bothered by a few Ah difference between each cell, this should be expected in any case as they're B grade.
 
Mariner62 said:
Ah ok, now I understand what you would prefer. It's a good point. Let me look into that a bit more.
Click to expand...
Ok, to buy a ZKE 40 is around A$500. Too much investment. There is a cheaper option which discharges at 5A, but I would be testing till January with that one.

So, it's a nogo from me on the single cell tests. I will test as a battery. I'm happy with that test as it's how I plan to use the cells, and as @octal_ip noted, the result will be dictated by the weakest cell.

I've done this previously with 4 cell and 8 cell configurations and was happy with the results.
 
Mariner62 said:
Hopefully the Seplos enclosure will turn up soon.
Click to expand...
No sooner mentioned ... the SEPLOS Mason 280Ah enclosure arrived today. Interestingly, the courier said there is a second package that will be delivered tomorrow.
SEPLOS have separated the delivery into two packages, presumably to keep the weight down. The package I received contained the enclosure, the BMS (fitted) and some plastic separators only
Presumably the busbars, fuse and other hardware is in the second package coming tomorrow.
 
They do that - split into multiple small packages. That is why my 48 cells arrived in 12 boxes with 12 separate tracking numbers.

I would not advise on one cell at a time capacity testing. Your approach is good. You will know what is the least potent cell at the end, but if you get expected Ah and Wh output then you don't care what would the best cell be.

A cell by cell test makes sense to me if I'm testing a seller. I would go with 4 cells and if everything is OK then get more. This is what I did with Docan - got 4 EVE 105Ah cells, build a battery, tested that everything is OK, and ordered 16 280Ah cells.
 
Mariner62 said:
No sooner mentioned ... the SEPLOS Mason 280Ah enclosure arrived today. Interestingly, the courier said there is a second package that will be delivered tomorrow.
SEPLOS have separated the delivery into two packages, presumably to keep the weight down. The package I received contained the enclosure, the BMS (fitted) and some plastic separators only
Presumably the busbars, fuse and other hardware is in the second package coming tomorrow.
Click to expand...
How much did it cost you for it to clear customs? Mine has arrived but they want $1200 to clear!
 
jpetrak said:
How much did it cost you for it to clear customs? Mine has arrived but they want $1200 to clear!
Click to expand...
@jpetrak the first box was delivered with no additional charges. The second package still has not arrived.

Did you order just an enclosure kit or did you order cells too?
 
Mariner62 said:
@jpetrak the first box was delivered with no additional charges. The second package still has not arrived.

Did you order just an enclosure kit or did you order cells too?
Click to expand...
Just the empty kit but with base stand and cables. Looks like I got tricked by the freight forwarding company Airwave. I got the arrival email with a vauge do you have a customs broker assigned yet if not sign this. Well I signed it thinking 165 roughly and all the other fees are just what they charge for a full shipping container. Well they charged me all those fees and more. $58 Cartage-Fuel hints at how ridiculous it is.
 
Mariner62 said:
Ok, to buy a ZKE 40 is around A$500. Too much investment. There is a cheaper option which discharges at 5A, but I would be testing till January with that one.

So, it's a nogo from me on the single cell tests. I will test as a battery. I'm happy with that test as it's how I plan to use the cells, and as @octal_ip noted, the result will be dictated by the weakest cell.

I've done this previously with 4 cell and 8 cell configurations and was happy with the results.
Click to expand...

YOu dont need to buy that you can get this one it is much cheaper:


only $50
 
Mariner62 said:
No sooner mentioned ... the SEPLOS Mason 280Ah enclosure arrived today. Interestingly, the courier said there is a second package that will be delivered tomorrow.
SEPLOS have separated the delivery into two packages, presumably to keep the weight down. The package I received contained the enclosure, the BMS (fitted) and some plastic separators only
Presumably the busbars, fuse and other hardware is in the second package coming tomorrow.
Click to expand...
The courier was wrong. The second package from Seplos was not delivered the next day and has now gone AWOL. The local courier company who delivered the first package (Couriers Please) are asking for the Con Note number to track it, but they don't recognise the Con Note number printed on the first package, so they tell me they cant do anything.

Seplos initially said they will investigate, but now they wont answer my emails. What a frustrating shemozzle!
 
Alkaline said:
YOu dont need to buy that you can get this one it is much cheaper:


only $50
Click to expand...
Thanks Alkaline, that looks like a better value gizmo at US$50. Advertised max discharge is 25A, assuming that is possible, then the process would still take me a few weeks to complete, not to mention X weeks for delivery of the gizmo to Oz.
I'll stick with the "test as a pack" philosophy for now.
 
Mariner62 said:
The courier was wrong. The second package from Seplos was not delivered the next day and has now gone AWOL. The local courier company who delivered the first package (Couriers Please) are asking for the Con Note number to track it, but they don't recognise the Con Note number printed on the first package, so they tell me they cant do anything.

Seplos initially said they will investigate, but now they wont answer my emails. What a frustrating shemozzle!
Click to expand...
It's now more than 2 weeks since part of my Seplos Mason DIY Kit was delivered. The other part is still AWOL. The fault is with the local freight company Border Express who have now assured me three times that it will be delivered "tomorrow", but as the old song says, tomorrow never comes. Very very frustrating. Seplos can't dispatch a replacement package until this one is officially "lost". Border Express keep saying its not lost, but despite their promises, they seem incapable of actually delivering it. What a contrast to the slick and professional delivery of the Eve Cells from Luyuan.

Based on the parts of the Seplos Kit I've seen so far, I'm pretty happy with the quality, and assuming the BMS operates as expected, I would like to order another one ... but I don't want this chaos again!
 
So finally, the missing package was delivered, and I have the Seplos Mason 280 battery now operating properly.

Here is my overall summary of how the ordering, delivery and commissioning of this Seplos product worked out for me.

The Good
Overall, the product itself is great. I like it.

It's a well-designed and solidly-built enclosure which does a nice job of housing the 16x280Ah cells and the Seplos 200A BMS with it's screen. The communication buses (CANBus and dual RS-485) work just fine for monitoring with PC and the CAN bus interface to the Victron CerboGX works, although the depth of information provided across CAN is a bit limited.

The "sales engineer" that I dealt with was consistently available on email to deal with issues as they arose. While the communication was consistent, it was often not accurate... see "The Bad" below.

The shipping process was generally good, except for the local courier who screwed up, but that wasn't the fault of Seplos.

The Bad
The system comes as standard with an internal ANMH fuse, specified to operate up to only 2000A. I asked for a Class T fuse (which operates to 20,000A) and was told that I would get one. I didn't get one, and what is more concerning is that the Seplos engineer tried to convince me that the ANMH fuse WAS a Class T fuse. (He didn't succeed!) Don't bother asking for a Class T fuse because Seplos engineers don't know what that is. I have added an external Class T fuse for my own peace of mind.

I was told by Seplos that the V16 BMS I was getting had Bluetooth functionality. It did not. I learned that the BT function is physically provided in the display module of the BMS, so while a V16 BMS might have Bluetooth "functionality" (whatever that means), there actually is no Bluetooth transceiver unless you specifically ask for a Bluetooth Display.

There was a missing busbar in my delivery, which Seplos have promised to send me. I fabricated a temporary replacement to make the system work.

The Ugly
There is an error in the 200A BMS Manual which has incorrectly labelled the CAN-L and CAN-H pinouts on the CANBus connector. The signals are in fact reversed. The manual for the 100A BMS is correct. According to the Sales Engineer, Seplos don't consider this an "error", just a different interpretation.. go figure. Its one of those crappy manual mistakes that never get fixed because once you know about the error its an easy fix and you move on, so no-one bothers to fix the documentation. It remains a trap for new players.

The BMS is rubbish at balancing. My cells were pretty close, but I ended up manually balancing a couple of outliers with a bunch of resistors on alligator clips. I will be keeping a close eye on cell balancing for a while. Note to self - buy a 16S balancer :)


Ok so that's a very brief summary. I'm happy enough with Seplos and the product that I'm ordering a second unit and have specifically not asked for a Class T, but have specifically asked for a Bluetooth display (Extra $10).

Happy to respond to any specific queries.
 
Mariner62 said:
I was told by Seplos that the V16 BMS I was getting had Bluetooth functionality. It did not. I learned that the BT function is physically provided in the display module of the BMS, so while a V16 BMS might have Bluetooth "functionality" (whatever that means), there actually is no Bluetooth transceiver unless you specifically ask for a Bluetooth Display.
Click to expand...

Yep, the Bluetooth is in the display itself. Based on what I'm seeing as functionality the display can communicate with the BMS and they have added another mechanism for tapping into that communication channel.

But consider this - why would you need Bluetooth on the battery? Do you really need that or this is going to be just another Bluetooth gadget burden?

My personal opinion is that the system should be set and forget. I'm buying a pretty expensive BMS that should take care of the battery. I don't want BMS that enables me to do its job.
 
Mariner62 said:
There is an error in the 200A BMS Manual which has incorrectly labelled the CAN-L and CAN-H pinouts on the CANBus connector. The signals are in fact reversed. The manual for the 100A BMS is correct.
Click to expand...

This is something that everybody should consider. It is not that CAN-L/CAN-H are swapped, but the whole pin numbering is in reversed order.

And the reason for that is in the standards - RJ45 standard ping numbering is from left to right when you are looking at the bottom of the RJ45 connector. In the manual, the pin numbering is based on the female port on the PCB. As result, it is not the standard one but is reversed.

Seplos not considering this an issue may have an impact on their sales. DiY community will hit issues with that and prefer other options. Recently I commented on a dedicated thread about that.
 
ocular said:
@Mariner62 how are the B Grade cells supplied by Luyuan performing?
Click to expand...
I ordered my LF280K's around the same time as Mariner62, and mine have been excellent, I couldn't be happier.
I don't run my cells to their bleeding limits, but they've performed exactly as I need. I keep a close eye on my BMS statistics day to day and there doesn't appear to be any particular cell that has trouble charging or discharging.
Accoring to the BMS the pack has had 7 full cycles now, so still early days, but they seem to have settled in well.
 
Mariner62 said:
Ok, to buy a ZKE 40 is around A$500. Too much investment. There is a cheaper option which discharges at 5A, but I would be testing till January with that one.

So, it's a nogo from me on the single cell tests. I will test as a battery. I'm happy with that test as it's how I plan to use the cells, and as @octal_ip noted, the result will be dictated by the weakest cell.

I've done this previously with 4 cell and 8 cell configurations and was happy with the results.
Click to expand...
I think you're really underestimating the value of being able to to load test individual cells. I've learned so much about the performance of my cells by running all kinds of discharging tests and in a world where you have no idea if you're getting garbage Grade B or good Grade B a discharge test is the only way to really know for sure.

The ZKE Tech EBC A40L is $199 USD shipped right now on Aliexpress, there's this Atorch 40A fan discharger for $77USD shipped, and there's a new 50A tester under the Hel Tec brand name and some alphabet soup brand name like YDPSZ that I've seen under $200 USD shipped.
The Atorch can be extremely flexible with its voltage range but without charging the A40L and new 50A tester are really an amazing bargain. A 40A electronic load is typically more than $500, I can only think of two that have the ability to do 40A under $400. They will save your ass when one day you get sent shitty cells. I've seen sellers dispute series connected cells by using the argument that buyer has not properly top balanced blah blah blah with enough bullshit to confuse the arbitrator. My A20 cost me $90 USD shipped and it has already paid for itself in the refunds I've gotten (while still keeping the product in some cases). I regret getting the A20 due to its 85W limit but it does have the ability to charge up to 20V 4.5A (based on your power adapter) and discharge up to 30V as long as you stay under 85W and under 20A. So a bit more flexible and the A40L couldn't be found so cheap when I purchased the A20, the A40L used to be $270+ pretty much everywhere and this week I've seen it for $199 USD and $212 USD shipped.
At the very least a $35 to $40 USD shipped DL24 150W or 180W max 20A model is good to have around. They have several variants that do 20A, 23A, and 25A then the splicable version that depends on if you have 1, 2, 3, or 4 cooling units to do 25, 30, 35, and 40 amps at 150W, 300W, 450W, and 600W respectively but like I said once you pass the $40 USD mark just bite the bullet and get the A40L or the 50A tester.
ZKE Tech also make a tester that can handle batteries up to 100V (72V or 84V nominal) and do either 10A or 20A discharging. EBC-B10 and EBC-B20. I believe both have inputs for you to add your chargers leads if you want to set up cycling tests.
 
ocular said:
@Mariner62 how are the B Grade cells supplied by Luyuan performing?
Click to expand...
Sorry just noticed this!
The Luyuan B grade cells are performing very well. I ordered some more (which had shipping delays), but both sets are good. I am happily working about 250Ah through them most days. No balance problems on either bank.
 
MarcoWasRight said:
I think you're really underestimating the value of being able to to load test individual cells. I've learned so much about the performance of my cells by running all kinds of discharging tests and in a world where you have no idea if you're getting garbage Grade B or good Grade B a discharge test is the only way to really know for sure.

The ZKE Tech EBC A40L is $199 USD shipped right now on Aliexpress, there's this Atorch 40A fan discharger for $77USD shipped, and there's a new 50A tester under the Hel Tec brand name and some alphabet soup brand name like YDPSZ that I've seen under $200 USD shipped.
The Atorch can be extremely flexible with its voltage range but without charging the A40L and new 50A tester are really an amazing bargain. A 40A electronic load is typically more than $500, I can only think of two that have the ability to do 40A under $400. They will save your ass when one day you get sent shitty cells. I've seen sellers dispute series connected cells by using the argument that buyer has not properly top balanced blah blah blah with enough bullshit to confuse the arbitrator. My A20 cost me $90 USD shipped and it has already paid for itself in the refunds I've gotten (while still keeping the product in some cases). I regret getting the A20 due to its 85W limit but it does have the ability to charge up to 20V 4.5A (based on your power adapter) and discharge up to 30V as long as you stay under 85W and under 20A. So a bit more flexible and the A40L couldn't be found so cheap when I purchased the A20, the A40L used to be $270+ pretty much everywhere and this week I've seen it for $199 USD and $212 USD shipped.
At the very least a $35 to $40 USD shipped DL24 150W or 180W max 20A model is good to have around. They have several variants that do 20A, 23A, and 25A then the splicable version that depends on if you have 1, 2, 3, or 4 cooling units to do 25, 30, 35, and 40 amps at 150W, 300W, 450W, and 600W respectively but like I said once you pass the $40 USD mark just bite the bullet and get the A40L or the 50A tester.
ZKE Tech also make a tester that can handle batteries up to 100V (72V or 84V nominal) and do either 10A or 20A discharging. EBC-B10 and EBC-B20. I believe both have inputs for you to add your chargers leads if you want to set up cycling tests.
Click to expand...

A compelling argument for some, however for those of us not ordering cells on a regular basis, it makes sense to run the them through their paces connected to the system first, then invest in a tester later if there seems to be a problem.

Like @Mariner62, my Luyuan B grade LF280K cells have been working perfectly (delivering 14kWh per charge) since they arrived, and have now been through about 20 full cycles, so I have no reason to spend the extra money to test them individually.

That being said, I recently purchased the ATORCH DL24 for just $22 USD including delivery, and fit my own heatsink. They're a great little tester, though have a flaw that can be mitigated with a very simple modification (15v zener to clamp the MOSFET gate/source over-voltage due to ringing).
 
Mariner62 said:
~AUD200 per cell delivered in a batch of 16. Don't know yet if I'll be hit up for customs charges on arrival.
Click to expand...
I got in contact with Amy to buy these 304ah cells, 16 in total to build own 48v system. She says cant do door to door as pack too heavy. Can only ship to closest port. How did you get them? Thanks
 
octal_ip said:
I ordered my LF280K's around the same time as Mariner62, and mine have been excellent, I couldn't be happier.
I don't run my cells to their bleeding limits, but they've performed exactly as I need. I keep a close eye on my BMS statistics day to day and there doesn't appear to be any particular cell that has trouble charging or discharging.
Accoring to the BMS the pack has had 7 full cycles now, so still early days, but they seem to have settled in well.
Click to expand...
Are you also in Australia QLD?
 
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