Chargery BMS now with Low Temp Cutoff

[DW SD]

I made the final 4/0 connections in to my RV today. Things seem to work perfectly.
But when I went to shut off the LiFePo battery by the red STOP switch, it wouldn't turn off the relays. The button does turn the screen back on if I push it if the screen shuts off (I have it set to power save after 2 minutes.)
At home I had bench tested the STOP functionality countless times. It worked just fine.
Here's two videos showing what's going on.
Anyone seen this before?

Ultimately, I did disable the relays and BMS by turning off the external power switch.
I also tried disconnecting the balance connector and that made no difference.
I plan to email Jason from Chargery.

 

[DW SD]

I made the final 4/0 connections in to my RV today. Things seem to work perfectly.
But when I went to shut off the LiFePo battery by the red STOP switch, it wouldn't turn off the relays. The button does turn the screen back on if I push it if the screen shuts off (I have it set to power save after 2 minutes.)
At home I had bench tested the STOP functionality countless times. It worked just fine.
Here's two videos showing what's going on.
Anyone seen this before?

Ultimately, I did disable the relays and BMS by turning off the external power switch.
I also tried disconnecting the balance connector and that made no difference.
I plan to email Jason from Chargery.

DOH! I guess if battery isn’t under 1.0 amp (storage mode) the manual STOP button is disabled.
live and learn.
Doug

 

[Craigmck]

DOH! I guess if battery isn’t under 1.0 amp (storage mode) the manual STOP button is disabled.
live and learn.
Doug

Thanks for the info. i have run into the same thing with the stop button. Now i know

 

[grizzzman]

Dido !

 

[DW SD]

View attachment 9278
I decided to draw a quick schematic of how I wired my load / charge disconnect relays (IE. Common port configuration). A picture is worth 1k words, right?

Admittedly, my handwriting could use some improvement. Functionally, this is identical to having two contactors wired in series (any fault condition will interrupt charging or loads) But, the Bosch cube relay is much cheaper and also uses modest power (2W @ 12V) like an expensive GV200M.
Note, pins 85 / 86 are the trigger pins controlling closure of the solenoid contacts.
Hope this helps someone.

Steve,
Your modification of the instructions will be very helpful. I appreciate the investment of your time all over this forum.
Cheers,
Doug

Note, I also added a simple SPST switch interrupting the ground trigger (85) on the Bosch cube relay (see schematic photo in post 262). This allows me to manually de-energize the contactor relay, well both relays. As posted above, I found out after using the Chargery BMS that if current is flowing >1.0 amps, it won't allow manual shutdown of the battery, which I need when I put the camper away in storage.

I guess this might be a safety for example in an electric vehicle. For my purposes, I need to be able to shut down the battery and put the BMS in sleep.
The switch I added is a Blue Sea Systems Carling switch.
I attached two photos, one of the battery as I was installing and second, now complete with plastic cover made from a cut up cutting board.

One final note, I need to bring my hot glue gun to glue the warning lamp in to the lid after drilling a hole. I'll also add the warning alarm.

Cheers, Doug

 

[greyghost]

@Steve_S Do you know if Jason's Chargery BMS the same one being sold at electriccarpartscompany.com? It certainly looks the part.

Doug

 

[DW SD]

It sure does look absolutely identical. That contactor is slightly different than the Gigavac GV200, but I know they sell (maybe white label) other contactors.

Doug

 

[jaffadog]

I‘m building a system that is going to be on 24x7x365 with limited solar, so need to minimize the overhead consumption of the BMS package.

What is the resting power consumption of the Chargery? Say a BMS8T, with no balancing going on, excluding power consumed by the relays?

Can the LCD screen be disconnected from the unit after configuration - to reduce power consumption? Or must it remain connected full time for the BMS to function?

Could a pair of Victron Battery Protect FET units be used instead of the mechanical relays? Can the Chargery properly switch the BP units?

Thanks!

 

[Craig]

Not sure of standby consumption. It varies I imagine but I can say it is very little. You can remove LCD after setup.
The Chargery can control the BP . However as per Victron the BP is not designed to be used with an inverter due to possible inrushes of current when Inverter is first charged up during initial connection when BP turns inverter on. There are workarounds but not sure if they are automated.

How many amps are you expecting to pull?

 

[vk2emp]

Manual sure looks like that which comes with a Chargery, even the lost in translation parts have been included, and one of the images shows the Chargery logo.

Probs electriccarpartscompany.com bought a pile of them from Jason.

 

[Steve_S]

@Steve_S Do you know if Jason's Chargery BMS the same one being sold at electriccarpartscompany.com? It certainly looks the part.
Doug

Yes, that's a Chargery BMS.

I've hunted down the company that produces the Energy Saver Relay shown in the image.
I've attempted contact with them, they do not respond. The specs on paper look good, I wanted a couple to test myself but no joy.

Main Site: "the DH Series Contactors"

High Voltage DC Contactor(HV dc contactor), automotive contactor - China Dongya Electronic

Kilovac contactor: Both the High Voltage DC Contactor and the automotive contactor are integral to the efficient and safe operation of high voltage DC systems.Ev Dc Contactor all series products get UL508 certificate and comply with RoHS.

www.dc-contactors.com

Buy Energy Saving Type High Voltage Normal in China on Alibaba.com

Buy Energy Saving Type High Voltage Normal and find similar products on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[grizzzman]

That is a clone of this kilovac contactor.Uses .13 amps and is good to 500 Amps I bought from this vendor and tested.

 

[jaffadog]

How many amps are you expecting to pull?

I am aiming for a system that can support a 2000 watt inverter. So call it 200A.

Can the Chargery be configured to actuate a single relay rather than separate charge and discharge relays? i.e. if I purchase a particularly expensive relay, like a Blue Sea 7713, and i want to avoid buying 2 of them, and am willing to deal with common disconnect behavior, can the Chargery support that configuration?

 

[grizzzman]

I am aiming for a system that can support a 2000 watt inverter. So call it 200A.

Can the Chargery be configured to actuate a single relay rather than separate charge and discharge relays? i.e. if I purchase a particularly expensive relay, like a Blue Sea 7713, and i want to avoid buying 2 of them, and am willing to deal with common disconnect behavior, can the Chargery support that configuration?

DW SD shows how to use a single large relay and a small low amp relay in this thread on the previous page. Perhaps you could use this method.

 

[Steve_S]

2000W ÷ 12VDC = 166A @ 24VDC = 83.3A

Each relay serves a specific use. Discharge Relay for cutting off LVD and Over/Under Temp Charge Relay for Charge control to prevent over charge & temp issues. Both Relays dropped when Over / Under temp condition occures.

 

[jaffadog]

2000W ÷ 12VDC = 166A @ 24VDC = 83.3A

Each relay serves a specific use. Discharge Relay for cutting off LVD and Over/Under Temp Charge Relay for Charge control to prevent over charge & temp issues. Both Relays dropped when Over / Under temp condition occures.

I'm building a 12v system - so yes, 167A minimum. Although, if I could get the Chargery to just turn the inverter off rather than switching that load, then i can look at the next highest load - which is a 1000W 12v DC motor - so maybe 85A... with startup transients... so maybe size for 120A.

 

[stronkk]

That is a clone of this kilovac contactor.Uses .13 amps and is good to 500 Amps I bought from this vendor and tested.

So these relais work exactly like the ones you can order with the Chargery BMS? I thought you need some external components since it said it needs an external coil economizer in the data sheet .

 

[Craig]

I'm building a 12v system - so yes, 167A minimum. Although, if I could get the Chargery to just turn the inverter off rather than switching that load, then i can look at the next highest load - which is a 1000W 12v DC motor - so maybe 85A... with startup transients... so maybe size for 120A.

You can use small SSR wired to inverter switch to turn inverter on and off this would have less than 1 amp current draw on the load and .01 Amp on the control side.

 

[grizzzman]

So these relais work exactly like the ones you can order with the Chargery BMS? I thought you need some external components since it said it needs an external coil economizer in the data sheet .

No, the Chargery relay's that I have, pull .58 amps "But the surge at turn on" from the BMS causes a system reboot. This is using the battery for power. My system is BMS8T. There is a warning in the manual. The need to run external power. The Contactor from eBay Has the economizer built-in and works without rebooting the BMS.

 

[Craig]

No, the Chargery relay's that I have, pull .58 amps "But the surge at turn on" from the BMS causes a system reboot. This is using the battery for power. My system is BMS8T. There is a warning in the manual. The need to run external power. The Contactor from eBay Has the economizer built-in and works without rebooting the BMS.

I am unfamiliar with this problem could you give more details as to what is surging etc etc

 

[grizzzman]

Perhaps I did not explain it correctly. They have two coils. Peak and hold. Peak requires more power due to the strong spring. Peak pulls the contactor down.(Hold is the .58 amps) It is the peak that is the issue. It's pulling over three amps during peak ( manual implies 2.5 amps if using the battery instead of external power )

 

[grizzzman]

In fact it entrusted, I could put my DSO on it and capture the peak event.

 

[DW SD]

The Sleep mode draw, according to Jason, is 5mA. I don't think active is too much higher. But I would expect if the balancing is on, it will draw more.
My 2 relay setup draws in the neighborhood of 0.25A to 0.3A (130mA each). 1 Bosch cube relay and 1 high current contactor (Gigavac GV200M). Ironically the small Bosch cube relay draws about the same..... that Gigavac contactor is pretty efficient!
Pretty sure electric car parts company sells the knock off. I think this is referred to above. I also notice the same company pictures (90% certain) the shunts used by Chargery.

If you have limited solar vs. battery bank size, I recommend just spend a little more to buy a contactor with economizer circuit built in. The Gigavac was $135 shipped from evwest.com
They are local to me, so I didn't dig to find a better deal and had it in hand in 1 day.
cheers,
Doug

 

[Bob B]

We had the discussion quite a while ago about external power for a 4S configuration using the BMS8T ..... It will "work" without external power, but the operation is going to be borderline for some functions. I don't like operating things on the edge, so am going to use a boost converter to get the external power into a safer range. I am also trying to switch the inverter off instead of it's DC power.

 

[greyghost]

I’ve ordered the Chargery BMS8T from Jason, the BlueSea 7713, and a few SSRs including the optocoupler @Will Prowse recently demonstrated. When the gear arrives I’ll do some testing and post back with my observations.