cheap Mppt any good ?

[Mattb4]

My experience with MSB. The first one I bought was version V116* and it damaged a SLA battery by not going into float properly. It took about 2 years to do the damage and before I notice the reduced capacity. The second one is version V118 and seems to work fine. I am presently using it in lithium battery mode.

The first one I tossed. If you buy a MSB check the version number.

*MSB in some advertisements stated that V116 units were rip offs of them and that they did not sell this model. Considering I bought it direct from their distributor it was unlikely they would sell me a fake.

 

[jjchvl]

It’s not the manufacturing that matters - it’s who has the technical expertise to specify the product and technically support it.

PowerMr is a reseller, plain and simple. The products they sell change year by year.

I’ve even seen that PowerMr was at one point reselling Epever’s products rebadged as ‘PowerMr’

As Epever has succeeded to establish success in the US market, they appear to have gained the leverage to shut down any rebadgers.

I don’t know anything about MSB.

Im pretty sure Ive seen examples of what youre saying, specifically involving PowMr brand name. While shopping for controllers recently, Ive seen controller models I had once associated only with higher quality name brands now rebranded as PowMr or some other brand that Ive never even heard of. Thats going to complicate my choices now that I have to buy another controller. Who is really who? Id think that a company like, say Epever would contract with a manufacturer to produce a certain product at certain standards, thus giving Epever a certain amount of control over the quality of the product. But if Epever is buying in bulk from a controller manufacturer and just putting their name on the controllers, just like ten other lesser known brands are doing, then who is dictating a higher standard? Probly no one so youd be no better off paying more for a controller with Epever's name on it than you would for the same model controller with an unknown name on it. At that point it would seem the only reason to pay more would be for better customer support purposes-if you were sure that Epever did indeed provide better customer support. Disclaimer here! Im not accusing Epever of not being a quality product. Just using it for the purpose of making up an example.

 

[jjchvl]

PowrMR advertises on Amazon identifying makeskyblue as a knock-off of powrMR right in their listing. And I can’t remember the manufacturer’s name exactly but Epever and several other cheaper ‘reputable’ brands are manufactured by that same company that makes powrMR

I dont know what theyre doing now, but when I bought my 1st PowMr controller 3yrs ago, seemed like PowMr and MSB were in a war with both accusing the other of being the "fake". I think maybe both still make the same accusations somewhere in their listings but in a more muted way than I saw 3yrs ago. 3yrs ago, the accusations were so prominant on their listings, you'd think they were the major selling point.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

putting their name on the controllers, just like ten other lesser known brands are doing, then who is dictating a higher standard? Probly no one so youd be no better off paying more for a controller with Epever's name on it than you would for the same model controller with an unknown name on it.

Purchase Order manufacturing usually incorporates certain hardware specifications that can be opted for at additional/lesser unit cost, and with electronics that includes firmware customization.
When we buy cheap to a large degree we are at the mercy of our own choice to dismiss wisdom. If we acknowledge that compromise then we only have reviews and market experiences over time to indicate whether “x” cheap product is ‘better’ than alternative or competing cheap products.
I can’t really compare Epever and… Victron for example, but both have a moderately long history of positive reports from users- albeit with Epever having a couple commonly experienced software issues, a known failure rate, and not having an integrated highly engineered product group like Tier 1 suppliers. So Epever clones are likely not the same as knockoffs even if Epever itself is a knockoff…
But the several hundred dollar difference from Epever to Victron in some products is easily explained with Victron having the engineering, integration, and support.

Then you take the super cheap stuff and I question whether there’s any monetary overhead for post-sale support. There isn’t imho. YOU/WE take the post-sale risk on ourselves. At least with Epever we can get an eventual response (even if that response involves chasing our tail which is my experience)

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Hey, something else I just saw about that controller you linked to. Its only for variations of Lead Acid batteries. It doesnt have charging parameters for Lithium. Im not sure if you noticed that or not.

I purchased a 60A powermr with a fan last week or so and I swapped out the Epever for it last night. It has two settable options; one for Lead Acid, and one for Li.
Appears to have expected early morning output, and fan dB is not that obtrusive, cycling on/off at ~275W 58V PV. So: “not clear whether PowerMr is even still selling those older-model HHJ SCCs any more” so I am saying they must.

Q?: does the Lead Acid option incorporate an “equalize” cycle?

I could not set the Li option to absorb at 14.4 and float at 13.6 as the unit constantly made these match regardless of what I tried setting them at.

So I selected Lead Acid and used 14.4 and 13.6. But I’d like it not to send 15.x Volts monthly and can find no documentation of that function.
If this does not have an automatic “equalize” feature I’ll be happy.

I’m actually quite disgusted that this cheap thing appears to be working well but a bit relieved at the same time.
As long as it doesn’t have the cutout issues of the epevers and works as well as the MPPSolar 1012LV-MK I’m probably going to buy more including several spares for obvious reasons.
The included “owner’s manual” documentation lists 190V max PV and does not indicate that overpaneling watts-wise has any negative ramifications other than clipping production.

Time will tell.

Just would like confirmation that the ‘equalize’ function is not a feature.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Well it charged to 14.8 with the parameters set to limit 14.5 without going to float 13.6 and shut the inverter down. LOL
I dropped it to 14.2 and it moved to “float”
Still wanna know if the ‘equalize’ feature is present or not.

 

[Samsonite801]

Well it charged to 14.8 with the parameters set to limit 14.5 without going to float 13.6 and shut the inverter down. LOL
I dropped it to 14.2 and it moved to “float”
Still wanna know if the ‘equalize’ feature is present or not.

Is yours this model?

60A 12V 24V 36V 48V MPPT Solar Charge Controller

A 60A MPPT solar charge controller is suitable for most types of 12V/24V/36V/48V solar batteries. It boasts a remarkable conversion efficiency of up to 98.1%.

powmr.com

Manual:

60A 12V 24V 36V 48V MPPT Solar Charge Controller

A 60A MPPT solar charge controller is suitable for most types of 12V/24V/36V/48V solar batteries. It boasts a remarkable conversion efficiency of up to 98.1%.

powmr.com

In that manual anyways, they show the following (search the PDF for the keywords 'equaliz'), Page 7 seems to give description of equalizing. There are also some other references in the doc related to equalizing...

"
Equalization:
Is carried out every 28 days of the month. It is intentional overcharging of the battery for a controlled period of time. Certain types of batteries benefit from periodic equalizing charge, which can stir the electrolyte, balance battery voltage and complete chemical reaction. Equalizing charge increases the battery voltage, higher than the standard complement voltage, which gasifies the battery electrolyte.
"


I know on my Magnum charger/inverter, if you want to disable any possibility of equalization (it is only a manually triggered action on the Magnums anyways), but for further safety, you can go into the 'User' charge profile and set the equalize stage voltage to the same voltage as the absorption voltage, which renders it essentially off.

So I wonder if you can set it to manual mode on the PowMr or if not, just set the voltage on equalization stage to match absorption voltage.

EDIT:
Page 15 in that manual seems to show more info about equalization voltage adjustment. I didn't read the whole manual since I don't have a ton of time right now...

 

[Vigilant24]

Is yours this model?

60A 12V 24V 36V 48V MPPT Solar Charge Controller

A 60A MPPT solar charge controller is suitable for most types of 12V/24V/36V/48V solar batteries. It boasts a remarkable conversion efficiency of up to 98.1%.

powmr.com

Manual:

60A 12V 24V 36V 48V MPPT Solar Charge Controller

A 60A MPPT solar charge controller is suitable for most types of 12V/24V/36V/48V solar batteries. It boasts a remarkable conversion efficiency of up to 98.1%.

powmr.com

In that manual anyways, they show the following (search the PDF for the keywords 'equaliz'), Page 7 seems to give description of equalizing. There are also some other references in the doc related to equalizing...

"
Equalization:
Is carried out every 28 days of the month. It is intentional overcharging of the battery for a controlled period of time. Certain types of batteries benefit from periodic equalizing charge, which can stir the electrolyte, balance battery voltage and complete chemical reaction. Equalizing charge increases the battery voltage, higher than the standard complement voltage, which gasifies the battery electrolyte.
"


I know on my Magnum charger/inverter, if you want to disable any possibility of equalization (it is only a manually triggered action on the Magnums anyways), but for further safety, you can go into the 'User' charge profile and set the equalize stage voltage to the same voltage as the absorption voltage, which renders it essentially off.

So I wonder if you can set it to manual mode on the PowMr or if not, just set the voltage on equalization stage to match absorption voltage.

EDIT:
Page 15 in that manual seems to show more info about equalization voltage adjustment. I didn't read the whole manual since I don't have a ton of time right now...

I'm sure 12voltinstalls will chime in shortly, but I think he got a different controller, the 60A PowMR with a raw aluminum case and a fan (see this post).

BUT--do you happen to have that 60A PowMR controller in your post (with the grey/orange plastic front, heat sink on the back?). I'd be interested in hearing about it, if so.
I'm happily watching and learning from 12voltinstalls, hoping to benefit from his experiences. Reading the Amazon reviews, the PowMR documentation seems sketchy on all of their products. That doesn't mean they are bad, but it can make it hard to find out if they are good.
Mark

 

[Samsonite801]

I'm sure 12voltinstalls will chime in shortly, but I think he got a different controller, the 60A PowMR with a raw aluminum case and a fan (see this post).

BUT--do you happen to have that 60A PowMR controller in your post (with the grey/orange plastic front, heat sink on the back?). I'd be interested in hearing about it, if so.
I'm happily watching and learning from 12voltinstalls, hoping to benefit from his experiences. Reading the Amazon reviews, the PowMR documentation seems sketchy on all of their products. That doesn't mean they are bad, but it can make it hard to find out if they are good.
Mark

I don't have one myself, just a 3rd party observer here is all, trying to help out. I had only noticed it seems PowMr had manual downloads on their product pages, so that was a start (not saying the manual is the holy grail of info but maybe has some clues)...

 

[12VoltInstalls]

had only noticed it seems PowMr had manual downloads

The page and a half that covers programming has only five parameters.

watching and learning from 12voltinstalls, hoping to benefit from his experiences

That’s stinkin dangerous and causes severe jeep fabrication and boat customization euphoria.

yours this model?

Nope

 

[Vigilant24]

The page and a half that covers programming has only five parameters.

That’s stinkin dangerous and causes severe jeep fabrication and boat customization euphoria.

Nope

FWIW, the manual for the OTHER 60A PowMR charge controller, which they call the "0 Layer Series" (grey and orange plastic front, heat sink on the back) says (pg 2 "battery safety" bullet 8) that "equalization is carried out only for non-sealed /vented /flooded wet cell lead acid batteries."
This solar charge controller apparently has an "LI (LFP)" and a "user" mode among others (pg 14 and 15 of the paper manual). The documentation on programming this charge controller is not very complete, maybe it all becomes clear with the LCD screen prompts. I doubt it. A better booklet would go a long way. The hardware looks like it might be okay, and the price is right ($99 on Amazon for the 60A model). Hey, maybe you can buy one, figure it out, and do a write up!
Sorry--just just joshing.

Mark

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Hey, maybe you can buy one, figure it out, and do a write up!

I’m not sure I want to experiment with those.
Having said that I’m fully aware I’m already experimenting with the cheapest of the cheap mppt SCCs with that “raw aluminum” one.
The menu options are “00” for Lead Acid and “01” for lithium. “Step 5” indicates “01” has no float discrimination, while page 10 says that overcharge protection is 60V which I assume is the 48V value, so 15V for 12V nominal systems.

Inside cover is titled “Important Safety Instructions” with one of the bullet points under “Charge Controller Safety” stating, “Ensure input voltage does not exceed 190VDC to prevent permanent damage. Use the Open Circuit Voltage (Voc) to make sure the voltage does not exceed this value when connecting panels together.”
^^^While that leaves out important information it gives me one key datapoint for my setup: my six 310W panels are ~45.x VOC ~8.6A so I could potentially 3S2P them but I will be better off with two controllers and 3S or three controllers and 2S.

price is right ($99 on Amazon for the 60A model).

So maybe I’ll do that. Probably will LOL
But with cheap stuff the price is not $99 it’s $198 cuz you need a spare on hand ?
Once you buy several and buy the spares, a couple Victron’s aren’t that expensive anymore.

Really I need to decide what the next step is. It might be adding another 1012LV-MK but I’m not sure about that with the no-load consumption. (The QZRELB 2000W psw I just reinstalled is doing ~18W but two 1012’s would be ~56W+).

Once I’m confident in stuff I’ll know where I’m headed. My ‘house’ situation is handled fine at 12V but within a year perhaps by fall I want to online the forty 60W thin films I picked up (96VOC) and grid-feedback with a UL1741 device. 2400W of those isn’t “a lot” but it should eliminate powerco connection costs and maybe some usage (welders and table saw, wood lathe)

But this is getting off-topic.
The cheapo powerMR units look like they might take care of my jump to 3200W solar- I use a fraction of that potential daily but I’m configuring for Nov through Feb/March

on topic is these cheap mppt SCCs and it appears several of the one I posted will work. It’s “60A” but I photo’d it next to the dollar bill for perspective- it’s smaller than the 40A Tracer on the wall by a lot. I’m not going to ask it for 60A

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Read the instruction manual.

I posted where it says 190VDC as max VOC

I saw the specs you are referring to but I am unable to find any explanation. I've never seen any other charge controller with different VOC limits depending on battery voltage. Trying to figure out if their specs are wrong or if there is something unique/strange about this specific controller.

That is poor English in the manual. Those are the preferred mppt volts operating range. And it does hunt severely as you get closer to full charge. Mine was ranging today from 4A to 25A charging seconds apart. This issue has been brought up before.

also might get lousy watt production if you exceed the 1.5 to 2 times battery voltage that is recommended

My panel input voltages seem to be ‘suppressed’ to 55V automatically. Epever typically ran ~80V
my stinkin test conditions have been wrecked due to all the smoke from alberta. Even my 200W microinverter setup struggled to make 100W at peak sun time

you don't have to multiple the charge voltage by 4

I don’t know what that means

I’d worry about longevity running maxed-out

I think 30 or 40 seems comfortable

 

[BuffaloTrace]

Keeping tabs for updates. Loving my 24v hand truck setup and will be sticking with 24v for my next system. Got the panels for a 40'x 10' carport with about 30-35ft of usable distance depending on season. Still hunting for some reasonable controllers. Don't mind buying extras. Two is one and one is none. My preference is fanless.....

 

[sunsurfer]

Everyone always focuses on amps which is fine. No one ever talks about tracking speed. The whole point of MPPT is being able to capture more drops of sunshine. A slow MPPT misses those drops between clouds.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Everyone always focuses on amps which is fine. No one ever talks about tracking speed. The whole point of MPPT is being able to capture more drops of sunshine. A slow MPPT misses those drops between clouds.

Of course this is subjective but when watts rise substantially after variable clouds pass by I’m thinking this isn’t really an issue of any practical concern.

Still hunting for some reasonable controllers. Don't mind buying extras. Two is one and one is none. My preference is fanless.....

The fan isn’t obtrusive imho. I like that it comes on; comforting.

This is a reasonable controller. No extra required. I’d like to see it way less money- it’s high value but expensive when you think about it.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Is yours this model?

60A 12V 24V 36V 48V MPPT Solar Charge Controller

A 60A MPPT solar charge controller is suitable for most types of 12V/24V/36V/48V solar batteries. It boasts a remarkable conversion efficiency of up to 98.1%.

powmr.com

I’m noticing the similarities to a Tracer.
Am I wrong?

 

[Vigilant24]

I’m noticing the similarities to a Tracer.
Am I wrong?

Just based on pictures/externals:
Buttons:
PowMR "0 Layer" Grey and orange: 4 buttons
EPEVER 4210AN Tracer: 2 buttons
EPEVER TRacer 4210N "EXTRA": 2 buttons

Display:
Similar across all three models (icons, layout), but not identical (PowMR "MPPT" text, "work mode" display. Neither is on the Epever controllers.

They might be related, but typically a rebadged product keeps almost all the "guts" the same and just changes the cosmetics.

The PowMR 40A "Pow-Keeper" MPPT model (also, confusingly, grey and orange plastic cover) has 2 buttons like the Epever Tracers and is passively cooled like they are, but I don't think they are the same inside. The POW-Keepers have USB ports on the front, different display items than the Tracers.

 

[Vigilant24]

Everyone always focuses on amps which is fine. No one ever talks about tracking speed. The whole point of MPPT is being able to capture more drops of sunshine. A slow MPPT misses those drops between clouds.

There may be something to that, and I'm not sure why the "recompute frequency" can't be higher and tracking computation can't be faster (we're not talking about computing with moving cogs or analogue vacuum tube electronics here). But, to me, the bigger issue is where an MPPT controller "hangs-up" for inexplicable reasons and sticks at a tiny fraction of the available voltage/wattage for hours or a whole sunny day. There are lots of people who experience this with their Epevers on a continuing basis. That's not just a failure to capture some "drops of sunshine," it's like forgetting to put the rainbarrel out before the rainstorm.
There are still folks out here with lead acid batteries, and we want to get a full charge at the first available opportunity. Having to monitor the PV system, notice a problem, disconnect the panels, and reconnect the panels to just make things work is (IMO) ridiculous.

 

[sunsurfer]

Of course this is subjective but when watts rise substantially after variable clouds pass by I’m thinking this isn’t really an issue of any practical concern.

The fan isn’t obtrusive imho. I like that it comes on; comforting.

This is a reasonable controller. No extra required. I’d like to see it way less money- it’s high value but expensive when you think about it.

There may be something to that, and I'm not sure why the "recompute frequency" can't be higher and tracking computation can't be faster (we're not talking about computing with moving cogs or analogue vacuum tube electronics here). But, to me, the bigger issue is where an MPPT controller "hangs-up" for inexplicable reasons and sticks at a tiny fraction of the available voltage/wattage for hours or a whole sunny day. There are lots of people who experience this with their Epevers on a continuing basis. That's not just a failure to capture some "drops of sunshine," it's like forgetting to put the rainbarrel out before the rainstorm.
There are still folks out here with lead acid batteries, and we want to get a full charge at the first available opportunity. Having to monitor the PV system, notice a problem, disconnect the panels, and reconnect the panels to just make things work is (IMO) ridiculous.

Its why I sent back my epevers and went victron. Victrons are fast.

Epever should just install a knob so users can adjust when a cloud comes by.....