Community Solar power.

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Yep, belongs in Chit Chat.

BTW, you are correct about one thing in your comment, that being 100%. As in you are 100% ignorant of this particular subject. The One Small Town concept as actually is based on volunteering about 5 hours a week to a community project which no one is obligated to participate in. So unless you are one of the weed-smoking-lazy failures who only works 5 hours a week, no one is giving up 100% of a their productive capacity or being forced to accept anything that someone else dictates. That's kind of what we have now, YES?

I'm not promoting or advocating for anything and have no personal affiliation with Michael Tellinger or the OST group. Was just throwing it out there since many of the Forum participants are decidedly in favor of more self-reliance, healthy communities and less Government overreach. The present broken-down, corrupt, rotten system run by criminals is never going to change unless we are open to alternative ways of organizing ourselves that doesn't include 100% top down dictates from a ruling class.

Quote of the Day:

Dumb people gossip about other people
Average people talk about events and things.
Smart people discuss ideas & concepts.

Edit: You are correct. I have zero knowledge of this concept.

 

[AntronX]

Should we add a district heating system?

??

 

[AntronX]

#2 aluminum 15kV direct burial cable $6.22/foot. Can handle 170A 14kV = 2380kVa. If each house is 1000' apart then $13k for cable and 25kVA transformer per house. Financed over 15 years = $113/mo. For that price you could indefinitely sustain 100kWh of batteries replaced every 10 years. Edit: OK maybe not indefinitely.

 

[DIYrich]

Not really interested in selling to POCOS.
This would just be for homeowners of the trust..

Still have to live with state law on what they define as a utility. Might be able to get away with a Home Owners Association owning it as Common Property.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

My shaky memory is that this was the initial concept for the Sunny Island. One central location would house the Sunny Island(s) and the battery bank. All of the satellite locations would have a SunnyBoy and PV. As new structures were added to the grid they would be responsible for installing enough PV on their site to produce thier energy thus maintaining the system balance while still benefiting from the community grid.

That still requires some sort of distribution.
I need to find out how and what.

That sounds ideal though rather than trying to add on to the main distribution building and solar field.

It’s definitely something I will have to delve into..

 

[Nobodybusiness]

It ain't easy being small. Should we add a district heating system?

Far beyond the scope of what I was thinking.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Still have to live with state law on what they define as a utility. Might be able to get away with a Home Owners Association owning it as Common Property.

The whole parcel and its improved structures would be in the trust.

Whomever bought into it would have to agree to the trust and be part of the trust.

For what I’m thinking this is more of a generational thing. Family thing initially.

If it works we can look into a real estate venture for public consumption.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

#2 aluminum 15kV direct burial cable $6.22/foot. Can handle 170A 14kV = 2380kVa. If each house is 1000' apart then $13k for cable and 25kVA transformer per house. Financed over 15 years = $113/mo. For that price you could indefinitely sustain 100kWh of batteries replaced every 10 years. Edit: OK maybe not indefinitely.

That makes sense.

I guess I’m still a little fuzzy on the step
Up portion or if substation needed.

Little beyond my knowledge base.
Will be fun to figure out though.

 

[AntronX]

How many customers do you want to serve at 100A each?

 

[hwy17]

And how close are the houses clustered. 120/240v distribution might be possible within maybe a 10 acre service area.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

How many customers do you want to serve at 100A each?

Unknown at this time.
Like I said it’s more of a thought experiment.

I imagine if it’s just family from 5-9 houses total over 100 acres.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

And how close are the houses clustered. 120/240v distribution might be possible within maybe a 10 acre service area.

I am imagining it would be in a circle with 10 acres lots around the solar field/ distribution building in the center.

No house would be any further away than the rest respectively.

 

[AntronX]

9 houses * 100A * 240V / 1.2 = 270kVA. You could do 3 x 75kVA pad transformers ($10k ea.) feeding 3 separate branches.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

9 houses * 100A * 240V / 1.2 = 270kVA. You could do 3 x 75kVA pad transformers ($10k ea.) feeding 3 separate branches.

Those pad transformers require 19200 Volts on primaries to output 240 split on secondaries don’t they?

That means 3 phase inverters and some kind of step up at generation source?
One phase per branch?

See this is where I lack the knowledge.
I know zilch about power distribution on such a scale.

 

[DIYrich]

The whole parcel and its improved structures would be in the trust.

Whomever bought into it would have to agree to the trust and be part of the trust.

For what I’m thinking this is more of a generational thing. Family thing initially.

If it works we can look into a real estate venture for public consumption.

Do it as a condo or HOA project.
Put solar on each home.
Then you only need to wheel supplemental power between homes, and not build an entire distribution system.

 

[AntronX]

You can have various primary voltages.

Those pad transformers require 19200 Volts on primaries to output 240 split on secondaries don’t they?

13.2 kV primary is common. It should work in reverse but possibly at reduced capacity due to internal physical bracing designed for step down. But this could be BS rumor I read from a power company electrician.

 

[AntronX]

Then you only need to wheel supplemental power between homes, and not build an entire distribution system.

Problem is you need grid forming inverter to provide stable AC power source and sink to make all those home grid tie inverters work. They will not black start themselves.

 

[OzSolar]

That still requires some sort of distribution.
I need to find out how and what.

That sounds ideal though rather than trying to add on to the main distribution building and solar field.

It’s definitely something I will have to delve into..

This might help. https://www.solarelectricsupply.com...stom/upload/sunny-island-off-grid-catalog.pdf

No need for all of this nonsense about high voltage distribution systems.

I was involved in a few similar systems back in the years back when I traveled for work.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

You can have various primary voltages.

13.2 kV primary is common. It should work in reverse but possibly at reduced capacity due to internal physical bracing designed for step down. But this could be BS rumor I read from a power company electrician.

I follow what you are saying.

See this is where I am lacking.

I’m going to have to do some serious research to determine what we need and can use.

I thought perhaps will all the EE on here someone would be proficient in power distribution.
Maybe give me a basis to start with with.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

This might help. https://www.solarelectricsupply.com...stom/upload/sunny-island-off-grid-catalog.pdf

No need for all of this nonsense about high voltage distribution systems.

I was involved in a few similar systems back in the years back when I traveled for work.

View attachment 188833

I’m reading through this and I think this is exactly what we need.

Thank you!!

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

I'd tack against the wind (along w/ DiyRich) and make this more a collection of independent diy off-grid homesteads:

- 100 acres is divvied up into tracts for each home, and one or more common areas, all part of the trust. needs a great design to get into the 100-acre parcel, and then into each homestead (ingress/egress, services, etc.). needs a great trust arrangement, which I think means much lawyering; probably need a benevolent dictator to get it going, as long as the dictator bows out at some point.
- Each homestead is fully off-grid w/ solar/battery-bank/generator/propane ... no central authority (which never works right anyway), and the *excess* is sent only to neighbors in need; see other threads on this forum about what to do with excess power. Personally, I'd just put it to work on the homestead (ev charging, etc.), and then move those results around.
- no power poles ... please. they just break under weather conditions, anyway. in the above, no need for power poles.

All of this is "community" ... it's very hard to do (but not impossible), and fits well with a thought experiment. I'd suggest the community forums of many websites (permies.org is a great start), and other org's discussing the pros/cons of community.

Love the thought exercise effort ... last I checked, nobody dies from it ...

Hope this helps ...

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I'd tack against the wind (along w/ DiyRich) and make this more a collection of independent diy off-grid homesteads:

- 100 acres is divvied up into tracts for each home, and one or more common areas, all part of the trust. needs a great design to get into the 100-acre parcel, and then into each homestead (ingress/egress, services, etc.). needs a great trust arrangement, which I think means much lawyering; probably need a benevolent dictator to get it going, as long as the dictator bows out at some point.
- Each homestead is fully off-grid w/ solar/battery-bank/generator/propane ... no central authority (which never works right anyway), and the *excess* is sent only to neighbors in need; see other threads on this forum about what to do with excess power. Personally, I'd just put it to work on the homestead (ev charging, etc.), and then move those results around.
- no power poles ... please. they just break under weather conditions, anyway. in the above, no need for power poles.

All of this is "community" ... it's very hard to do (but not impossible), and fits well with a thought experiment. I'd suggest the community forums of many websites (permies.org is a great start), and other org's discussing the pros/cons of community.

Love the thought exercise effort ... last I checked, nobody dies from it ...

Hope this helps ...

We are definitely going to do the Trust.

One of the things we are trying to ascertain is central generation or just individual generation.
Individual would be very easy to do.

Trying to see if there is a cost benefit to doing central vs individual power.

If we did central power all utilities would be in ground.

The rest is fairly easy.
We have an attorney who only does Trust.

The physical layout is not hard.
One road in from state access to a rather large roundabout with individual driveways off that in a spoke.
We were thinking of putting central generation in the middle of the roundabout so no ones home is far away.

 

[AntronX]

The cost of HV power distribution equipment for 9 houses is $150k alone not including engineering, earthworks and labor. Assuming those remaining costs add another $100k then total grid cost per house is $28k not including cost of central power plant. For that price you could buy and install 14kW 60kWh dual inverter offgrid ground mount solar system. And save yourself a ton of headache setting up legal logistics of it all.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The cost of HV power distribution equipment for 9 houses is $150k alone not including engineering, earthworks and labor. Assuming those remaining costs add another $100k then total grid cost per house is $28k not including cost of central power plant. For that price you could buy and install 14kW 60kWh dual inverter offgrid ground mount solar system. And save yourself a ton of headache setting up legal logistics of it all.

Won’t be doing HV.

Talked with Sol-Ark and Sunny island.
Not needed.

Legal is pro bono. He’s a friend.

 

[DIYrich]

Central generation is a field of ground mount solar. Easier to have optimal orientation and to maintain than distributed solar on roofs.

Central generation requires large grid wire and 3k to 6k volts that is stepped down to each house (or groups of houses).