zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Ah ok. Where does all the money come from for the programs then?
How do Calif. Community Enegery Electric Generation Charges work with solar PV?
- Thread starter Calvin98
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sparrowhawk
Christian Prepper
I lived in the San Diego area for 30 years and left 10 years ago because I saw the writing on the wall. San Diego used to be a beautiful place to live in many so ways. In California it appears the merging of big business & Government is almost complete.
The rest of the country is soon to follow.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
The CCAs have less overhead than the IOUs and they are mission driven rather than profit driven so it is an entirely different business model. The programs are related to their clean energy goals.
The other thing I like about the CCAs is their Board meetings are local so user input is welcomed and and they listen to public comment. It is a refresshing change from the IOU/CPUC model where, as another poster complained, the merger of big business and government is almost complete. If you look at the career path of many former CPUC commissioners after they retire from the CPUC, they either become lobbyists for the IOUs they regulated or end up working for them directly. Something is wrong with that process.
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IMO, the CCA's are simply a diversion enjoyed by the utilities. The rate payer says wow, my CCA is not for profit and they are trying to sell me lower cost electricity and cleaner electricity to boot. EXCEPT, CCA's have no infrastructure. They simply purchase available electricity on behalf of their ratepayers. They have no ability in the marketplace to force down prices and they are not building any of their own clean generation facilities. Until there is an excess of corporate electricity production forcing down supply costs, they are of little to no benefit. And the utilities, who operate and oversee the construction and repair of the physical grid are still laughing all the way to the bank while my CCA saves me $15-$25 a month for now.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
They are taking a significant revenue stream from the IOUs and they are not happy about it, but the enabling legislation specifically prohibits them from saying anything negative about the CCAs.
Of course they don't, they were born out the deregulation at the beginning of the century. If they had infrastructure they would be municipal utilities, which would not be bad because the municipal utilities in California have lower rates.
My CCA, Sonoma Clean Power, has two solar farms and is under contract for a battery facility. I think as others mature they will start building generation. Remember, except for Nuclear and some Hydro, the IOUs no longer own any generation. Those facilities were sold off over twenty years ago with deregulation.
As I mentioned, I don't think the IOUs are laughing. A recent CCA, Clean Power Alliance, has the potential to take over fifty percent of the generation revenue of SCE as it rolls out in the next few year. It is sponsored by the County of Los Angeles and has already moved into Ventura County and is still adding cities within LA County. I do agree that an excess of supply will force down supply costs and that has already happened on the wholesale level but we do not see it at the consumer level because deferred maintenance on the distribution and transmission infrastructure was delayed and is now coming back in the form of increase fixed charges. Because of that I do not expect our total cost of electricity will go down. What I have with my CCA is a choice and accessible management.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Yes, California does seem to be a trend setter. A dozen people I have known have moved to Texas and the Texans have a lot to worry about, especially with regard to the isolation and vulnerability of their grid.
sparrowhawk
Christian Prepper
Not so long ago food, water and electricity could be counted on. Now not so much.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Hmm. CPA’s annual cash settlement is on page 3 here and it’s written a lot better than pioneer’s
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
As I have said, I am a free market guy, but after watching Enron game the market in California in 2000 and hearing about the free market prices in Texas this summer and last winter I have purchase solar panels, inverters and batteries in the free market and am moving toward self sufficiency. I also have two EVs so I don't have to worry about world politics affecting the cost of driving my cars.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Before I moved to Northern California, I went to a lot of the community meetings for CPA during its formation six years ago and I learned a lot. They had a lot of resources available to them and got off to a great start. The County's budget ranks it 19th compared to all other Countries (yes, COUNTRIES) in the world.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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- Mar 28, 2020
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SVCE says that if any customers are delinquent, they will be dumped back on PG&E.
"Heads I win, tails you lose"
I thought corporations were people, with constitutional rights like freedom of speech.
www.mylawquestions.com
"Here in the United States, businesses and people alike have the same protections of free speech. This gives them the ability to voice their opinions on matters of public concern in the same way that individuals do."
"Heads I win, tails you lose"
I thought corporations were people, with constitutional rights like freedom of speech.
Do Corporations Have a Right to Freedom of Speech?
Corporations do have a right to freedom of speech, at least in part in the US. The question of whether or not corporations have...
www.mylawquestions.com
"Here in the United States, businesses and people alike have the same protections of free speech. This gives them the ability to voice their opinions on matters of public concern in the same way that individuals do."
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I don't know the details of the prohibition but I am sure it was tested some how. This is in the context of a regulated utility not being allowed to bad mouth a consumer choice. The IOUs have chosen to make the bills more complicated..I did have a staff person tell me I could not hook up a device like a Emporia Vue because I was with a CCA. A quick escalation to a Supervisor corrected that situation.
I don’t have “constitutional rights.” I have unalienable rights protected (supposedly) by the Constitution. But I don’t live in California.SVCE says that if any customers are delinquent, they will be dumped back on PG&E.
"Heads I win, tails you lose"
I thought corporations were people, with constitutional rights like freedom of speech.
Do Corporations Have a Right to Freedom of Speech?
Corporations do have a right to freedom of speech, at least in part in the US. The question of whether or not corporations have...
"Here in the United States, businesses and people alike have the same protections of free speech. This gives them the ability to voice their opinions on matters of public concern in the same way that individuals do."
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I thought PG&E did the billing for CCAs? How does one pay part of a bill and allocate it to only the PG&E portion?
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I read it as meaning the delinquent customers will be fired as a customer, and I guess PG&E might be more obligated to take customers back than a CCA.
I doubt PG&E will do the collections for the CCA part.
Kuma
New Member
Dont know if the calcs are different. The difference is how the surplus credits are counted/banked. PGE in kwh, CCA in dollars. When theirs a CCA January rate increase the CCA "surplus dollars" are devalued the amount of the rate increase. In other words, up to 9 months of credits could be devalued if they are required to help offset charges in the winter/Jan/Feb/March. In April CCA trueup happens and the cycle starts over. If the pv is over producing during the winter then this does not apply.
If credit is in kwh's, PGE, PGE "dollar" rate increase(s) does not change the credits value when being applied to offset winter charges due to credits being in kwh. Put another way, one kwh equals one kwh and price per kwh does not matter. If CCA $35 credit is accrued at .32 kwh, that CCA $35 will not pay for the same amount of kwh when kwh rate increases to .38 kwh.
If this logic and info is flawed or incorrect I'm all ears...
I understand what you are saying. My PCIA charge from my utility is about $0.045 per kW added onto my community power costs each month.
The entire utility bill is like getting one of those smelly sticky substances that won't wash off on your hands. I hate it.
Ah, some may be short sighted here. I suspect and am quite certain that a court, either State or Federal will expand the rights of tax paying corporations and maybe not for profits too, to add the ability to hold an elected office. Then your Senator could be Monsanto or GE!SVCE says that if any customers are delinquent, they will be dumped back on PG&E.
"Heads I win, tails you lose"
I thought corporations were people, with constitutional rights like freedom of speech.
Do Corporations Have a Right to Freedom of Speech?
Corporations do have a right to freedom of speech, at least in part in the US. The question of whether or not corporations have...
"Here in the United States, businesses and people alike have the same protections of free speech. This gives them the ability to voice their opinions on matters of public concern in the same way that individuals do."
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,554
PG&E bills me for their delivery and the CCA's power. And for multiple properties. I make a single payment.
Don't know how PG&E would allocate partial payments.
CCA keeps the good customers, PG&E is forced to take the bad ones. All profits to the CCA with zero risk. All risk and loss to PG&E.
PG&E employs an army of lobbyists to communicate that the State is responsible for the purchasing and supply of electricity to residents of the state, not the utility. If they don't pay, they get disconnected. So they relentlessly lobby for taxpayer and ratepayer monies for all those persons who cannot afford to pay for electricity while residents of the state. They never suffer except by the hands of their own mismanagement.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
PG&E has no incentive to make it simpler. It is in their interest for customers to blame the CCA for complicated billing and then elect to dump the CCA in favor of just PG&E.
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