Does Solar Pay for Itself? Is it worth it?

[PhiPhi]

Back to the original question of the post, yes and no is the unsatisfactory but correct answer. For me in S.E.Asia a few degrees off the equator it is a resounding yes with my DIY 5.5kW off grid system, for those elsewhere it seems that mark-ups and installation costs are incredibly high which probably has something to do with subsidies. My ROI is under 3 years but I have taken the perhaps unusual step of including my own usage behavior modification into account not just pure kW/h consumption:

• Ceiling fans everywhere vs. air-con (geothermal air-con is planned est. 100w usage)
• Low power, inverter tech appliances
• Separate gaming and entertainment PC's,
• Central immersion insulated hot water tank for energy sink vs. discrete 'on-demand' multi-point water heaters
• Low voltage led interior lighting plus self-contained discrete external solar lighting

I am planning to increase my ROI by a couple of years by adding the following mostly for reduncancy:

Spare 5.5kW AIO invertor
Additional 48v battery bank and BMS
Additional panel and fittings to max out string (450v OC)
6,500kW Diesel Genset

We have been living totally off-grid for 9-10 months with a reliable and stable electricity supply, along with the usual stuff powering cement mixer, mig welder, air compressors without issue, for the last 18 months we've endured an almost continuous monsoon season with a lot of cloud cover due to convergence of La Nina and the Indian Ocean equivalent but managed to squeak by on batteries, in more normal years the power produced is far in excess of our needs.

When going solar I revised my consumption habits and methods mainly to reduce nighttime consumption, I am not foregoing anything or living a smaller life because of it. In conclusion, in my particular case going solar was a very worthwhile, low cost investment.

 

[Goboatingnow]

I think young people are great. Lots of diy just different diy. Look at the huge “ maker “ growth area.
The planets in good hands certainly better ones than my dads day

 

[svsagres]

To answer the original question, my system is to provide house power on my sailboat. From a strictly financial perspective it absolutely does not make sense. But it’s oh so nice to have stupid amounts of power while away from the dock, and enough solar so that I don’t have to run the noisemaker (engine) as often to recharge.

 

[32 volt boater]

On the other hand, DIY types are becoming a rare breed. Many young people can't change a tire, much less build a solar power system. The average age here is probably 60.

I have a friend who is 87 years old she loves telling here life story. Many chapters include 'we built a house'.

Good luck building your own house today the permit gestapo so far up your rear end at every turn.

I could do a long long funny rant on how dumb the current generation is but I decided to defend them with some memes.

 

[efficientPV]

Sure, it will pay for itself. And I keep Skittles in my pocket for when Unicorns show up.

I'm not worried about the economy because everyone here has way too much money to spend.

I set out to create an amazing solar system, exclusive of panels, cost almost nothing to build. After years of successful operation, I bought a 50AH lithium battery. That increased the equipment cost by three times. Now I've become like the rest of you, leaving lights on and wasting energy. It will never get paid off.

 

[Alkaline]

Very doubtful it will pay for itself unless you are offgrid where you have no grid power or you are using it in a mobile environment. But I'm assuming you are also getting batteries.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Sure, it will pay for itself. And I keep Skittles in my pocket for when Unicorns show up.

I'm not worried about the economy because everyone here has way too much money to spend.

I set out to create an amazing solar system, exclusive of panels, cost almost nothing to build. After years of successful operation, I bought a 50AH lithium battery. That increased the equipment cost by three times. Now I've become like the rest of you, leaving lights on and wasting energy. It will never get paid off.

Buy more Lipos before the WEF realizes that cargo ships burn 5000 gallons of diesel per hour.

 

[Goboatingnow]

To answer the original question, my system is to provide house power on my sailboat. From a strictly financial perspective it absolutely does not make sense. But it’s oh so nice to have stupid amounts of power while away from the dock, and enough solar so that I don’t have to run the noisemaker (engine) as often to recharge.

As I live 9 months on a boat , I agree it’s not about money , it’s about providing electricity

But in a house with a reliable grid , that’s different

 

[Goboatingnow]

Sure, it will pay for itself. And I keep Skittles in my pocket for when Unicorns show up.

I'm not worried about the economy because everyone here has way too much money to spend.

I set out to create an amazing solar system, exclusive of panels, cost almost nothing to build. After years of successful operation, I bought a 50AH lithium battery. That increased the equipment cost by three times. Now I've become like the rest of you, leaving lights on and wasting energy. It will never get paid off.

With a 50AH battery , you must only have one light to leave on ?

 

[Goboatingnow]

I have a friend who is 87 years old she loves telling here life story. Many chapters include 'we built a house'.

Good luck building your own house today the permit gestapo so far up your rear end at every turn.

I could do a long long funny rant on how dumb the current generation is but I decided to defend them with some memes.



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I flew a lot for leisure , 30 years ago I could rock up 10 minutes before and board , however the ticket cost , adjusting for inflation , close to 100 times the current ticket ( I flew 400 miles into London last week for €9.99 , the G&T cost more)the two hours wait in the airport for €9.99 was worth it.

So if I’m prepared to fork out the equivalent , ie about €1000, I’m sure the private jet would allow me board in 10 minutes.

Noone has become an electrical engineer without a university degree in 40 years , so let’s ignore that nonsense

The world we created is a fairer , better off place , when I went to college , less then 20% of working class kids received any form of third level education , today , with free fees and subsidised accommodation , close to 75% now go on to receive higher education

Smoking deaths have dramatically drooped , health outcomes are better , Median age life has increased , the coal fired smog in the capital is gone largely due to the ban on domestic coal , the water quality in lakes and rivers is improving since mandatory public sewerage treatment has been funded , the roads are better , the country is much wealthier and unemployment is way lower then when I graduated in the late 70s.

Sure nothing perfect , but we did a good job building a better society, and as the father of two very high paid successful girls , I can only pat my generation on the back , good job people

 

[Rednecktek]

I'm coming around to it as an idea. Let me elaborate:

I've got a cabin out in NE Washington and I get to be there maybe 4 weeks a year on average. I've been trying to get utility power up there for about 4 years now but deployments and seasons have really slowed that down, and life just went sideways so no idea when I'll be able to go for my next (and hopefully final) inspection.

But, what I do have is an 8x16 shed/pump house where the grid is going to come in. With the NEC2020 in my state making DIY pretty much impossible I'm looking into getting a dozen or so panels on top of the pump house and grid tying them. The net metering out there is currently slated as $0.54/Kwh and I figure if I'm only up there for 1 month a year, and the panels are generating 7 months a year (because winter is worthless) then I'll basically get free power for life out of it.

Down side is that it's confusing as they say it's worth credits and that they send you a check so I'm not sure if I'll turn a profit or just have a $0 balance every year and lose whatever is left. That's a question for the future.

I figure it doesn't hurt to pick brains and get estimates just to see, but I think in my case if it is a check back at the end of the year then I'll break even in not too much time and still make enough to cover the property taxes in the future.

Too bad I'll never find someone out there that will install my used panels I have up there already.

I think in the right circumstances it's a viable cost option, or at least handy enough to make it worth it. With the way power companies are lowering the rate they pay all the time and the NEC making things harder and harder it might not be for much longer though.

 

[Warpspeed]

With a 50AH battery , you must only have one light to leave on ?

I only have a 50AH battery too, but its 100v.
5kWh storage is just enough here.

 

[Goboatingnow]

I only have a 50AH battery too, but its 100v.
5kWh storage is just enough here.

I had that on the boat 4900Wh , it’s very small ( 24x 200Ah).

 

[efficientPV]

I only have a 50AH battery too, but its 100v.
5kWh storage is just enough here.

Well, I'm not leaving a 70 inch TV on all day with nobody watching. I live quite well with PV providing all the usual things, refrigeration, hot water, dishwasher, large capacity LG clothes washer and all cycles are done with hot water. It can rain for days and there is no issue. I could afford a bigger battery. It costs me several thousand dollars each summer for lawn care services just so I can get this free energy at the summer home.

Excep things have changed since I bought the place 40 years ago. Believe what you want, but summers are a lot hotter than they used to be. Maybe I'm just older, but i need air conditioning. I'm in unbelievable shade and most panels get only an hour of sun. With that many panels I can operate with ambient light. For AC I need a different power source. Thinking of buying an EV to run the AC. Our town has charging stations on almost every corner. So, a ride to the grocery store for food and to charge up for a night of AC. I'll just leave it here. It would take a week of travel to take it back home.

 

[houseofancients]

yep, and in the netherlands ( my location) its even worse

and to add, initial payback for my system was going to be 5 years, it would have already paid for itself after 2, but got a deal on a pallet 540w panels ( 32 , jinko tiger 545w panels at 0,22 euro cents/w) i took too expand and become even less dependend on the grid, as things seem to completely go hay-wire here atm

i'm 40 going on 41

so, just got my new rates in, which are, to say the least outragious.
peak 0,95411 Euro/kwh
night 0,72172 Euro/kwh

payback just went to less than 1 year

i am sure these rates will not stick, as they were enlarged right after the gov here set a maximum pricing up to 2400kwh.

i really feel back for a lot of folks here as this is such an obvious corporate money grab

 

[nc73]

I was tired of being a miser with electricity so I went solar and now I don't have to worry about how much I use. Payback..ha funny.

 

[Hedges]

On a related note, Do panels age out from exposure, or energy usage, or a combination of both? I have always assumed the former, and strive to use everything my panels produce to do something beneficial. I am currently smelting some aluminum with my excess power.
Am I wrong?

I think moisture and heat are the main things causing panel degradation.
Full sun on some panels making current flow, with shade on another panel so diode carrying current, may cause failure due to inadequate engineering.

As far as electricity not heating the panels.. i dont know even close to enough to quantify any of it, ... Whether it reflects less when producing electricity, and less of what, at what wavelengths etc, is far beyond me.

Sun hits the panels. The photons of sufficient wavelength knock electrons across a barrier; any higher energy photon and the extra energy is converted to heat. Lower energy photon passes right through the silicon. If no backing it would illuminate what's behind the panel (with IR), but likely instead turns to heat. Maybe some reflects back out toward the sun.

If you draw current from the panel, you use some of the energy. If you don't, voltage across panel rises higher until 100% of the current conducts back through the diode, and it's energy heats the panel further (instead of doing work at the far end of your wires.) Sure, a bit of IR drop heating in the PV cell conductors, but most delivered elsewhere when you use the current. Short circuit, I'd guess much of the IR drop and heating would be back in the panel. Max power delivered is somewhere between open circuit and short circuit.

close to 75% now go on to receive higher education

University professor teaches remedial math to freshmen.

The real crime is our schools took out the shop classes that could have captured interest of the students who aren't college material, and sent them to a good career. Instead they either flunked classes in abstract thinking or were awarded a bone-head diploma while wearing a dunce cap.

 

[EPicTony]

Everytime I plug the solar PV costs into my long running spreadsheet , it’s returns 10 years plus return on capital. System install costs are rising if I want grid tied plus FIT ( and the gov 20 % grant, ) , I can’t DIY

My home is 1800sq feet modern 4 bed detached , dual tariff day and night saver electricity ( all washing dishwasher , water heating at night )these costings includes charging my Leaf !!!

10 year plus ROI is bunkum, especially if you factor in opportunity costs of money.

I can buy shed loads of power from the grid , and a few more vacations instead for the capital costs.

Forget the cost, I look at it as an insurance policy. You never need insurance, until you need insurance. With the wack jobs in Washington creating enemies all over the world, don't be surprised when our fragile grid goes down. Even if it's not terrorism or sabotage, the push to green is making the grid more fragile. I don't even care if my system never pays for it self, the peace of mind is worth the cost.

 

[EPicTony]

Let me start at stating my age….46 years young.

In my case, my solar array and batteries will payback in 5 years. Mine was not DIY, it cost $56k, but I received rebates of about $35k. SDGE cranked up the rates and converted customers to TOU at the beginning of this year, I think we have the highest rates in the nation. I needed to replace a woos patio cover and built a solar pergola, no panels on my roof. It is almost 9kw and has 2 Powerwalls, even in peak summer I almost 100% self powered. In my case, it was a great decision and I don’t have to worry about power outages. Next is a 1.4kw DIY system for my trailer that will also charge my wife’s plug-in hybrid.

I thought the rebates were 26% (now 30% with Build Back Broke) ? How did you manage to get $35k (63%) ????? Seems excessive. Thanks

 

[Goboatingnow]

Forget the cost, I look at it as an insurance policy. You never need insurance, until you need insurance. With the wack jobs in Washington creating enemies all over the world, don't be surprised when our fragile grid goes down. Even if it's not terrorism or sabotage, the push to green is making the grid more fragile. I don't even care if my system never pays for it self, the peace of mind is worth the cost.

Sorry not interested in “ end of civilisation “ scenarios. If that happens I’ll squat in my neighbours house