Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[MurphyGuy]

I have a friend...actually former friend now...who is just like Bobby Bullshit here.

You need to put a warning up before saying stuff like that.. Now I have my drink coming out my nose..

He bought into Trump hook line and sinker. He doubted how bad COVID was. He was against the vaccines. He took hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin instead. He thinks the election was stolen. He thinks that jan6 was a peaceful protest and that the violence was done by ANTIFA.

He lost over 75% of his friends...his wife left him...his kids don't talk to him...he thinks his family is brainwashed. He basically lost his mind to Qanon beliefs.

There are a lot of Bobbies out there...very dangerous!

I've been trying to figure out this new right wing conspiracy stuff for a while.. All my life, approaching 60 years of it, conservatives have been the party of traditions, financial responsibility, and civility.. and they have always resisted the liberal progressives.. sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not so much.. but its always been a stable relationship between the party's and the people.

I'm having a hard time believing normal people would fall for the Qanon-Trump grabage. The claims are so outrageous that no one in their right mind with even a small amount of common sense or a basic education would believe such nonsense.

Which leads me to believe something else is going on.. Maybe some kind of psychological trickery with the right combination of graphics, colors, and speech?
I remember back in the old days they claimed that movie theaters would replace every 30th frame of a movie with a picture of popcorn or something like that. It was said that because the human eye can't process images so quickly, the eye's don't see it but the brain (subconscious) does. I think its called the 25th frame effect or something like that.

It makes me wonder if some form of little known trickery like this is being used.. I just have a hard time believing that people are so stupid.

 

[Johnson]

 

[Cdkipp]

You need to put a warning up before saying stuff like that.. Now I have my drink coming out my nose..


I've been trying to figure out this new right wing conspiracy stuff for a while.. All my life, approaching 60 years of it, conservatives have been the party of traditions, financial responsibility, and civility.. and they have always resisted the liberal progressives.. sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not so much.. but its always been a stable relationship between the party's and the people.

I'm having a hard time believing normal people would fall for the Qanon-Trump grabage. The claims are so outrageous that no one in their right mind with even a small amount of common sense or a basic education would believe such nonsense.

Which leads me to believe something else is going on.. Maybe some kind of psychological trickery with the right combination of graphics, colors, and speech?
I remember back in the old days they claimed that movie theaters would replace every 30th frame of a movie with a picture of popcorn or something like that. It was said that because the human eye can't process images so quickly, the eye's don't see it but the brain (subconscious) does. I think its called the 25th frame effect or something like that.

It makes me wonder if some form of little known trickery like this is being used.. I just have a hard time believing that people are so stupid.

I am 63. My wife and I grew up in a very conservative Christian community. We both attended Christian Schools all the way through college. We have lost a lot of people from our lives over the last 10 years. My wife's maid of honor from our wedding was waiting for Trump's reinstallation last I heard. Many people from our former work places are gone. I liken it to a zombie movie. One day they start babbling garbage and then it keeps progressing. I think it is the confluence of a lot of psychological factors at once. A perfect storm.

 

[Johnson]

I am 63. My wife and I grew up in a very conservative Christian community. We both attended Christian Schools all the way through college. We have lost a lot of people from our lives over the last 10 years. My wife's maid of honor from our wedding was waiting for Trump's reinstallation last I heard. Many people from our former work places are gone. I liken it to a zombie movie. One day they start babbling garbage and then it keeps progressing. I think it is the confluence of a lot of psychological factors at once. A perfect storm.

It has been a long time coming.

Thanks to the celebration of profit over social responsibility, you guys are suffering from growing income inequality, and anything that is done to reduce that is labeled Marxism, Communism or Socialism. Personally I think a mixed economy would be preferable, for example something like that excist in most countries, where the roads are owned by the community while the cars are made by privately owned companies with some strict rules.

Government here is trying to reduce health care spending by moving towards the American system, which ironically actually costs more per capita and has lower outcomes. However people only look at the tax savings and health corporations at the profits, both are ignoring efficiency and outcomes.

 

[Cdkipp]

It has been a long time coming.

Thanks to the celebration of profit over social responsibility, you guys are suffering from growing income inequality, and anything that is done to reduce that is labeled Marxism, Communism or Socialism. Personally I think a mixed economy would be preferable, for example something like that excist in most countries, where the roads are owned by the community while the cars are made by privately owned companies with some strict rules.

Government here is trying to reduce health care spending by moving towards the American system, which ironically actually costs more per capita and has lower outcomes. However people only look at the tax savings and health corporations at the profits, both are ignoring efficiency and outcomes.

Yes, the American health care system is awful. It makes absolutely no sense, with US companies competing in an international marketplace, to saddle companies with the administrative burden and cost of paying for healthcare. We end up with much higher cost, worse healthcare and a system that fails those that need it most.

 

[MurphyGuy]

I am 63. My wife and I grew up in a very conservative Christian community. We both attended Christian Schools all the way through college. We have lost a lot of people from our lives over the last 10 years. My wife's maid of honor from our wedding was waiting for Trump's reinstallation last I heard. Many people from our former work places are gone. I liken it to a zombie movie. One day they start babbling garbage and then it keeps progressing. I think it is the confluence of a lot of psychological factors at once. A perfect storm.

Assuming "lost a lot of people from our lives" means the political differences have divided you?

I have two neighbors who are friends of mine. We help each other out, shared birthdays, weekend bon fires, etc. One is a 70 year old hard core racist who's never been married, lives alone, and leans far into the neo-nazi white supremacist side, complete with the conspiracy theory frosting on top. The other is a divorced once, newly married couple with the wife's father being a minister at a Christian church. All are Trump supporters, and while I wouldn't consider them cult material, they are very much in Trump's camp. Neither of them talk about overthrowing the government or shooting liberals or anything like that.. They're just normal people with different views than mine.

It doesn't bother me any. When the tractor gets stuck, I make a phone call and my racist Nazi will be here within minutes to tow me out.. When I put the solar system in, my racist Nazi was here all day helping pour concrete, and when I started planting a dozen fruit trees every year, my racist Nazi set up bee hives next to them for me. (I'm referring to him as my racist nazi as a joke)

And I can't even begin to count all the stuff my next door neighbor has done.

The beauty of the USA is that we are all free to think, vote and believe what we want, and allowing our social-political views to influence or block our personal relationships is a foolish move. Its one thing to reject someone on the internet, its an entirely different thing to allow these differences to alienate someone from our life.

The two most important lessons I have learned in my life are 1) The most powerful law in the universe is the law of unintended consequences and 2) Never burn your bridges.

 

[bradbill]

An article about one of the biggest misinformation con artists

The Latest Covid Misinformation Star Says He Invented the Vaccines

Dr. Robert Malone says he helped invent mRNA vaccines and has been wronged for decades. Now he’s spreading unfounded claims about the vaccines and the virus.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Cdkipp]

An article about one of the biggest misinformation con artists

The Latest Covid Misinformation Star Says He Invented the Vaccines

Dr. Robert Malone says he helped invent mRNA vaccines and has been wronged for decades. Now he’s spreading unfounded claims about the vaccines and the virus.

www.nytimes.com

I just read a different article about him this morning. This is a guy that you at least put together a profile for of what happened. Did you ever watch the show Breaking Bad? (My all-time favorite). Walter White was largely motivated by resentment for not getting the recognition he deserved as a chemist. In White's case, he became a methamphetamine kingpin. With Malone, he seems dead set on getting name recognition and undermining the mRNA vaccines for which he believes he deserves credit. When you look at his role in the history of mRNA it really is kind of minor. Still, I consider him as someone primarily motivated by disappointment in his own life and sour grapes.

Some of these other FLCCC are pure con artists but I think Malone has even deeper issues. He reminds me of these people that come out of the woodwork and claim they really gave a band the tune or idea for a big hit.

 

[Cdkipp]

Assuming "lost a lot of people from our lives" means the political differences have divided you?

I have two neighbors who are friends of mine. We help each other out, shared birthdays, weekend bon fires, etc. One is a 70 year old hard core racist who's never been married, lives alone, and leans far into the neo-nazi white supremacist side, complete with the conspiracy theory frosting on top. The other is a divorced once, newly married couple with the wife's father being a minister at a Christian church. All are Trump supporters, and while I wouldn't consider them cult material, they are very much in Trump's camp. Neither of them talk about overthrowing the government or shooting liberals or anything like that.. They're just normal people with different views than mine.

It doesn't bother me any. When the tractor gets stuck, I make a phone call and my racist Nazi will be here within minutes to tow me out.. When I put the solar system in, my racist Nazi was here all day helping pour concrete, and when I started planting a dozen fruit trees every year, my racist Nazi set up bee hives next to them for me. (I'm referring to him as my racist nazi as a joke)

And I can't even begin to count all the stuff my next door neighbor has done.

The beauty of the USA is that we are all free to think, vote and believe what we want, and allowing our social-political views to influence or block our personal relationships is a foolish move. Its one thing to reject someone on the internet, its an entirely different thing to allow these differences to alienate someone from our life.

The two most important lessons I have learned in my life are 1) The most powerful law in the universe is the law of unintended consequences and 2) Never burn your bridges.

I don't view things that way any longer. The fact that these folks can be good interpersonally with me, a white male, does not allow me to overlook the fundamental breach of core human values they embrace. I will be courteous. I will help them in a jam but as far as being friends or someone I in any way respect. Never. This expresses my feelings better than I can. https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/12/11/why-ive-lost-respect-for-my-republican-friends/

"I no longer have the desire to give them more information or help them understand the urgency of these days or wake them from some slumber so that they comprehend the inhumanity of their public servants—because I know that won’t make a difference.

Worst of all, I no longer see them as people I can truly respect, because that is saved for those who can admit their mistakes given evidence of them, people who can be swayed by facts and data, people who are willing to change in order to do what is right, even if it means them losing something."

 

[Bob B]

Okay. Bob let's take that pack of lies one by one starting with the bold above. You are mixing two issues. The study included only people over 55 or o had diabetes or who were obese or had another recognized comorbidity. But they were not seriously ill with Covid when the Trial started. In fact, over 44% of them had symptoms for 3 days or less and all of them 7 days or less. Spe

I do not want your snippet from your BS. I want you to show us where in the study it says that. Just so we are clear acutely symptomatic does not mean seriously ill. The protocol specifically states:

"Patients presenting to an outpatient care setting with an acute clinical condition compatible with COVID-19 and symptoms beginning within 07 days from the randomization date."

It then goes on to say:

Patients who meet any of the following criteria are excluded:

• 1. Patients with acute respiratory condition compatible with COVID-19 treated in the primary care and with hospitalization need."

So Bob contrary to what you said above they wanted symptomatic people but not people in respiratory distress. They were testing people in the early stage of Covid to see if :

" The primary composite outcome was hospitalization due to Covid-19 within 28 days after randomization or an emergency department visit due to clinical worsening of Covid-19 (defined as the participant remaining under observation for >6 hours) within 28 days after randomization.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869 https://gatesopenresearch.org/articles/5-117

Kipp is a lawyer who sold his soul a long time ago and is perfectly willing to help block treatments that are saving lives in spite of all the propaganda ... while he pretends or is deluded enough to believe that his motivation is to help humanity .... WHAT A JOKE. He posted 2 studies himself showing 90% and more effectiveness of Ivermectin .... but NONE of you guys are willing to even look at them and countless others linked in that document I posted.

Kipp KNOWS those and other studies are overwhelming proof of how an inexpensive Nobel Prize winning medicine ..... that is only ONE of the effective medicines that can be used as part of a protocol to treat Covid effectively ....... when the treatment is guided by one of the doctors who have spent countless hours learning and sharing how to treat Covid .... who's loyalty is to their patients and the Hippocratic Oath. He KNOWS the ONE study he is SO proud of is fatally flawed .... just like other studies of other medicines. Kipp is perfectly willing to slander these dedicated doctors ..... just like he slanders these life saving medicines and protocols.

The drug companies and their willing accomplices HAD to prevent these medicines from being officially recognized as effective Covid treatments or they could not have gotten the emergency use authorization for the vaccines. That would have cost them 10's of billions of dollars every year ... more than 50 billion in 2021 alone .... Do you REALLY think they wouldn't block other treatments to protect that kind of money?

Kipp or Dhasper .... whatever you want to call him .... is a internet troll who is paid to continue the propaganda you other trolls have bought into. The rest of you trolls are just being taken for a ride and obviously haven't done a single bit of open minded research for yourselves.
At first, I didn't believe the stuff I saw about mass formation psychosis ... but that is the only way to explain the total inability this group of trolls to look at ANY facts that are contrary to what they have been brain washed to believe. You guys actually despise anyone who brings evidence you don't like .... Some of you have even been guilty of doxing ... which could be a potential legal problem.

I am sorry for you guys who are so lost and are Kipps little sheep as he eggs on your trolling.

 

[Cdkipp]

Kipp is a lawyer who sold his soul a long time ago and is perfectly willing to help block treatments that are saving lives in spite of all the propaganda. He posted 2 studies himself showing 90% and more effectiveness of Ivermectin .... but NONE of you guys are willing to even look at them and countless others linked in that document I posted.

Kipp KNOWS those and other studies are overwhelming proof of how an inexpensive Nobel Prize winning medicine ..... that is only ONE of the effective medicines that can be used as part of a protocol to treat Covid effectively ....... when the treatment is guided by one of the doctors who have spent countless hours learning and sharing how to treat Covid .... who's loyalty is to their patients and the Hippocratic Oath. He KNOWS the ONE study he is SO proud of is fatally flawed .... just like other studies of other medicines. Kipp is perfectly willing to slander these dedicated doctors ..... just like he slanders these life saving medicines and protocols.

The drug companies and their willing accomplices HAD to prevent these medicines from being officially recognized as effective Covid treatments or they could not have gotten the emergency use authorization for the vaccines. That would have cost them 10's of billions of dollars every year ... more than 50 billion in 2021 alone .... Do you REALLY think they wouldn't block other treatments to protect that kind of money?

Kipp or Dhasper .... whatever you want to call him .... is a internet troll who is paid to continue the propaganda you other trolls have bought into. The rest of you trolls are just being taken for a ride and obviously haven't done a single bit of open minded research for yourselves.
At first, I didn't believe the stuff I saw about mass formation psychosis ... but that is the only way to explain the total inability this group of trolls to look at ANY facts that are contrary to what they have been brain washed to believe. You guys actually despise anyone who brings evidence you don't like .... Some of you have even been guilty of doxing ... which could be a potential legal problem.

I am sorry for you guys who are so lost and are Kipps little sheep as he eggs on your trolling.

There, you feel better.

I am trying to address each reason you claim the study is flawed one by one.

I have given you the exact language from the study establishing these people were not seriously ill with Covid. Are we agreed on that point?

Also, how does ivermectin work to stop Covid?

 

[Johnson]

Also, how does ivermectin work to stop Covid?

Keep it up, force him to question his "own research" in the mean time expose publicly that he doesn't know the answer and is talking nonsense.

 

[bradbill]

but that is the only way to explain the total inability this group of trolls to look at ANY facts that are contrary to what they have been brain washed to believe.

The standard line!

Sounds like my former buddy that lost his wife and his kids because of the cult machine. He thinks everyone else is brainwashed too.

 

[Cdkipp]

I am sorry for you guys who are so lost and are Kipps little sheep as he eggs on your trolling.

Are you high Bob?

 

[Johnson]

I am sorry for you guys who are so lost and are Kipps little sheep as he eggs on your trolling.

 

[time2roll]

I am 63. My wife and I grew up in a very conservative Christian community. We both attended Christian Schools all the way through college. We have lost a lot of people from our lives over the last 10 years. My wife's maid of honor from our wedding was waiting for Trump's reinstallation last I heard. Many people from our former work places are gone. I liken it to a zombie movie. One day they start babbling garbage and then it keeps progressing. I think it is the confluence of a lot of psychological factors at once. A perfect storm.

I have been saying for more than a decade that the zombie apocalypse that people fear is actually upon us in every day life.
No longer need a movie. We fight this battle every day.

 

[Cdkipp]

"A NETWORK OF health care providers pocketed millions of dollars selling hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and online consultations, according to hacked data provided to The Intercept. The data show that vast sums of money are being extracted from people concerned about or suffering from Covid-19 but resistant to vaccinations or other recommendations of public health authorities.

America’s Frontline Doctors, a right-wing group founded last year to promote pro-Trump doctors during the coronavirus pandemic, is working in tandem with a small network of health care companies to sow distrust in the Covid-19 vaccine, dupe tens of thousands of people into seeking ineffective treatments for the disease, and then sell consultations and millions of dollars’ worth of those medications. The data indicate patients spent at least $15 million — and potentially much more — on consultations and medications combined.'

Network of Right-Wing Health Care Providers Is Making Millions Off Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, Hacked Data Reveals

Hacked data also reveals that 72,000 people paid at least $6.7 million for Covid-19 consultations promoted by America’s Frontline Doctors and Simone Gold.

theintercept.com

 

[MurphyGuy]

I don't view things that way any longer. The fact that these folks can be good interpersonally with me, a white male, does not allow me to overlook the fundamental breach of core human values they embrace. I will be courteous. I will help them in a jam but as far as being friends or someone I in any way respect. Never. This expresses my feelings better than I can. https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/12/11/why-ive-lost-respect-for-my-republican-friends/

"I no longer have the desire to give them more information or help them understand the urgency of these days or wake them from some slumber so that they comprehend the inhumanity of their public servants—because I know that won’t make a difference.

Worst of all, I no longer see them as people I can truly respect, because that is saved for those who can admit their mistakes given evidence of them, people who can be swayed by facts and data, people who are willing to change in order to do what is right, even if it means them losing something."

I understand your point, but I don't think its fair to hang the problems of society on the shoulders of individuals who do nothing but vote.

I see a line in the sand, and that line is one of quantifiable actions. If one of my friends was an activist and publicly advocating for some social-political position I found to be contrary to my moral code, then I would not be friends with them. But that's not who they are.. they're just people and they do not seek to impose their ideologies on others. They do not make their views the topic of casual conversation, post stuff on the internet, or wear badges or symbolic dress attire to advertise their views. And quite frankly, even though my ideologies are the polar opposite, I don't do any of that stuff either.. although I do post on the internet sometimes.

There's a difference between evil and ignorance, even though they are frequently damn near indistinguishable sometimes.

I'm not going to burn bridges and kick people out of my life just because they view things differently..

 

[Bob B]

Well .... They finally decided to do a risk vs benefit analysis for college kids getting the vaccine.

"Using CDC and sponsor-reported adverse event data, we find that booster mandates may cause a net expected harm: per COVID-19 hospitalisation prevented in previously uninfected young adults, we anticipate 18 to 98 serious adverse events, including 1.7 to 3.0 booster-associated myocarditis cases in males, and 1,373 to 3,234 cases of grade ≥3 reactogenicity which interferes with daily activities."

COVID-19 Vaccine Boosters for Young Adults: A Risk-Benefit Assessment and Five Ethical Arguments against Mandates at Universities

Students at North American universities risk disenrollment due to third dose COVID-19 vaccine mandates. We present a risk-benefit assessment of boosters in this

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Yurtdweller]

Well .... They finally decided to do a risk vs benefit analysis for college kids getting the vaccine.

"Using CDC and sponsor-reported adverse event data, we find that booster mandates may cause a net expected harm: per COVID-19 hospitalisation prevented in previously uninfected young adults, we anticipate 18 to 98 serious adverse events, including 1.7 to 3.0 booster-associated myocarditis cases in males, and 1,373 to 3,234 cases of grade ≥3 reactogenicity which interferes with daily activities."

COVID-19 Vaccine Boosters for Young Adults: A Risk-Benefit Assessment and Five Ethical Arguments against Mandates at Universities

Students at North American universities risk disenrollment due to third dose COVID-19 vaccine mandates. We present a risk-benefit assessment of boosters in this

papers.ssrn.com