Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[Bob B]

There just is no documentation of the success Bob. Saying something does not make it true.

Here is information from Spain where they picked up on Dr Chetty's use of antihistamines and corticosteroids in his 8 day plan.

https://8days.org/success-in-spain

Look what happens when government officials and the media actually listen to critical care doctors ..... Dr Chetty gave one of the doctors in this group his protocols to get them started.
Watch the video on the page below ... this Dr clearly lays out a strategy that is saving a LOT of people.

https://8days.org/success-in-honduras

 

[Bob B]

We have methods and procedures for scientific evidence. You cannot see what is wrong because you do not understand the parameters. I don’t mean that in an offensive way. I just mean you do not understand the protocols and underlying rational because you have no background in it. You cannot ask the right questions. Again, that is not a criticism or meant to diminish you. I am not name calling— for the moment. If the things they described worked, especially as effectively as they claim, then they would have no trouble proving it. They don’t and can’t. In addition to my medical training I have decades of legal experience in recognizing fraud, inconsistencies and lies. They are saying things that consistently blend fact and distortion of truth. They say enough so sound legitimate. Whenever you put the right questions to them they deflect. They never have data which amounts to anything more than “trust me”. The overwhelming thing is that if what they said is true they could easily document it. They never do. This is fraud.

Science is supposed to help you see the truth .... not figure out ways to deny it. No amount of data will ever convince you because you have too much bias.

You seem to think you know so much more than the critical care doctors who are successfully treating and saving people .... that is simply delusional.

 

[Cdkipp]

Here is information from Spain where they picked up on Dr Chetty's use of antihistamines and corticosteroids in his 8 day plan.

https://8days.org/success-in-spain

Look what happens when government officials and the media actually listen to critical care doctors ..... Dr Chetty gave one of the doctors in this group his protocols to get them started.

https://8days.org/success-in-honduras

I just read the first one. This is what I am a talking about. It reads like a promotional brochure. If it is that great why was t it documented. Why didn’t they do a clinical trial? This reads like “People a raving about our luxury condos and they could not be happier” Come on….. if you have the goods you deliver. This is not how any serious medical scientists writes.
How do you trust Chetty when you know he believes the virus was intentionally created and that the vaccine is part of an organized plan for world domination? Doesn’t that give you pause? Do you believe that? Do you think you can just ignore that and think everything else is rational?

 

[Cdkipp]

Science is supposed to help you see the truth .... not figure out ways to deny it. No amount of data will ever convince you because you have too much bias.

You seem to think you know so much more than the critical care doctors who are successfully treating and saving people .... that is simply delusional.

That is absolutely wrong. I still think ivermectin may be of some benefit. I actually WANT them to do real studies. I will change my mind tomorrow. I won’t think twice. Look you keep giving me this song and dance about those critical care doctors. They are doing fing you tune videos with links for contributions and to their supplement stores. There are actual doctors and nurses, thousands of them, actually working 16 hours a day and watching people die. The people you admire are far from noble and by undermining science, they kill.

 

[Cdkipp]

Here is information from Spain where they picked up on Dr Chetty's use of antihistamines and corticosteroids in his 8 day plan.

https://8days.org/success-in-spain

Look what happens when government officials and the media actually listen to critical care doctors ..... Dr Chetty gave one of the doctors in this group his protocols to get them started.
Watch the video on the page below ... this Dr clearly lays out a strategy that is saving a LOT of people.

https://8days.org/success-in-honduras

Every country uses steroids and antihistamines. What is the point of this?

 

[Bob B]

I just read the first one. This is what I am a talking about. It reads like a promotional brochure. If it is that great why was t it documented. Why didn’t they do a clinical trial? This reads like “People a raving about our luxury condos and they could not be happier” Come on….. if you have the goods you deliver. This is not how any serious medical scientists writes.
How do you trust Chetty when you know he believes the virus was intentionally created and that the vaccine is part of an organized plan for world domination? Doesn’t that give you pause? Do you believe that? Do you think you can just ignore that and think everything else is rational?

He is merely trying to fill in the blanks of so many things that don't add up .... All these front line doctors have experienced things that just don't add up.
That is how the clinical mind works .... you see a problem or something that doesn't add up and you try to come up with something to explain it ... I have worked with computers, electronics, and troubleshooting of complex systems my entire life .... That is the same thing as a clinician does, only the thing being troubleshot is a patient .... so, I guess I understand them because my mind is built to resolve problems ... sometime a large amount of imagination is necessary .... Do you understand the Sherlock Holmes method?

Sitting around analyzing data is a COMPLETELY different skill set.

 

[Cdkipp]

He is merely trying to fill in the blanks of so many things that don't add up .... All these front line doctors have experienced things that just don't add up.
That is how the clinical mind works .... you see a problem or something that doesn't add up and you try to come up with something to explain it ... I have worked with computers, electronics, and troubleshooting of complex systems my entire life .... That is the same thing as a clinician does, only the thing being troubleshot is a patient .... so, I guess I understand them because my mind is built to resolve problems ... sometime a large amount of imagination is necessary .... Do you understand the Sherlock Holmes method?

Sitting around analyzing data is a COMPLETELY different skill set.

Yes I am an INTP just like Holmes. Of things didn’t add up they could prove that. If they were computer people they could run diagnostics, or whatever it is you do, and do printouts and prove the source and type of error. The situation here though is that you have actually millions of doctors that disagree with a handful and that handful not only has no documentation and the theory itself is incoherent involving a conspiracy for computers to take over the world. That is the analogy. And, if I without a computer background came to you and said “I saw these guys in you tube and I find them convincing” you would rightly call me a damn fool.

 

[Bob B]

Every country uses steroids and antihistamines. What is the point of this?

Watch the video of the Honduran doctor I linked to .... maybe that will help you understand.
It is using medicines in concert and adjusting the meds used and the dosages based on the patients trajectory. Using your experience from previous patients you have treated ... If people are working in a hospital where their hands are tied and they can only use Remdesivir , etc, etc .... it is nowhere near the same as a good clinical doctor who is turned loose to use his skills.
If you don't understand how that mental process works ... you will never get it. You simply can't test this kind of medicine in any other way that looking at the end result .... Honduras went from one of the worst countries to one of the very best by figuring out how to use medicines in concert.
You simply can't take one of these meds stand alone at a fixed dose and put it in a study and expect to see results that make any sense.

 

[Bob B]

Yes I am an INTP just like Holmes. Of things didn’t add up they could prove that. If they were computer people they could run diagnostics, or whatever it is you do, and do printouts and prove the source and type of error. The situation here though is that you have actually millions of doctors that disagree with a handful and that handful not only has no documentation and the theory itself is incoherent involving a conspiracy for computers to take over the world. That is the analogy. And, if I without a computer background came to you and said “I saw these guys in you tube and I find them convincing” you would rightly call me a damn fool.

Right .... just run a diagnostic and it spits out what the problem is .... I have worked on all kinds of electronic devices ..... some people can ace the theory but just can't put it together in their head in a way that they can fix a problem. They look brilliant on test scores .. but are no value whatsoever when your radar is down and you are in a dense fog.
I don't know why I'm wasting time trying to convince you ... You seem to be simply unable to understand how a true clinical doctor operates.
Image for a moment you are in South Africa with virtually no resources and you have to try to help your patients thru a pandemic. These doctors in Honduras did the same thing with virtually no resources ... somewhat different protocol with the same results .... which they have documented.

Imagine that you are one of the front line doctors .... you have used both hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin and observed a real benefit ..... You look at the health care organizations and see that they are totally vilifying it and trying to post false studies that hydroxychloroquine is killing people. You see them only recommending it for use in the hospital .... when you know it only works if used early ...... You write to your government official and try to inform them of the protocol you have that is saving your patients .... they don't want to acknowledge it .... What are you going to think? Dr Chetty has experience all those things .... just as many other clinical doctors have. What are you supposed to do or think when you have seen things with your own eyes but are told they aren't true? When you speak out .... they get you fired and try to take away your license .... What are you supposed to think?
Dr Chetty figured out which way the wind was blowing and just hunkered down for a long time and saved his patients ... he is tired of hiding his success and how he did it. He thinks it is criminal that these protocols aren't being used everywhere ..... any doctor worth their salt would think the same way. If they try to fire him now, his patients will have an uprising. They have seen people die before they found him to treat them ... They have family members who died who didn't need to die.

You just can't break free from the idea that the ONLY thing that is going to save us is the vaccine.

 

[Cdkipp]

Right .... just run a diagnostic and it spits out what the problem is .... I have worked on all kinds of electronic devices ..... some people can ace the theory but just can't put it together in their head in a way that they can fix a problem. They look brilliant on test scores .. but are no value whatsoever when your radar is down and you are in a dense fog.
I don't know why I'm wasting time trying to convince you ... You seem to be simply unable to understand how a true clinical doctor operates.
Image for a moment you are in South Africa with virtually no resources and you have to try to help your patients thru a pandemic. These doctors in Honduras did the same thing with virtually no resources ... somewhat different protocol with the same results .... which they have documented.

You just can't break free from the idea that the ONLY thing that is going to save us is the vaccine.

Your arrogant. Look, I understand if you are in a third world country or stranded on an island you make due with what you have. I have always been a strong proponent of sharing omedial resources with the world. That is not what is happening here. They are not saying this is how we get by in third world countries, they are directly attacking stablishmemt medicine and established procedure. They are not saying we need more stuff they are saying your stuff doesn’t work. And we know the way. Even though they have no evidence.

 

[Cdkipp]

Watch the video of the Honduran doctor I linked to .... maybe that will help you understand.
It is using medicines in concert and adjusting the meds used and the dosages based on the patients trajectory. Using your experience from previous patients you have treated ... If people are working in a hospital where their hands are tied and they can only use Remdesivir , etc, etc .... it is nowhere near the same as a good clinical doctor who is turned loose to use his skills.
If you don't understand how that mental process works ... you will never get it. You simply can't test this kind of medicine in any other way that looking at the end result .... Honduras went from one of the worst countries to one of the very best by figuring out how to use medicines in concert.
You simply can't take one of these meds stand alone at a fixed dose and put it in a study and expect to see results that make any sense.

Yes it am be done. That is how we get protocols.

 

[Johnson]

Please stop posting CDC data and making up things I have never said ..... We all know CDC data is corrupt

Normal people don't, know that, conspiracy theorists on the other hand...

I'm also completely dis impressed with testing accuracy ..... I think we need to know the symptoms of each variant.

Why do you need to know? The virus is mutating all the time. I will leave that to the specialist working for your CDC or other authorities.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck .... it's probably a duck.

You are talking like a conspiracy theorist, so you are probably a conspiracy theorist.

That is not meant as an insult, that is an honest observation.

 

[Johnson]

Nobody believes your side anymore. Lies, lies and more lies

The fast majority of people are vaccinated. Again proving that you are a liar and not a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

 

[Johnson]

If that's the case .... you need to REALLY do some self examination to figure out why you routinely try to delegitimize those who are doing great work.

That depends on what you believe is "great work." I know that I am not qualified to question the medical profession and follow the advice of my doctor. Just like I trust the structural engineer when it comes to bridge safety. Sure even professionale make mistakes, but they would do a much better job than I could.

 

[MurphyGuy]

That depends on what you believe is "great work." I know that I am not qualified to question the medical profession and follow the advice of my doctor. Just like I trust the structural engineer when it comes to bridge safety. Sure even professionale make mistakes, but they would do a much better job than I could.

That's it for you.. You are banned from the ivermectin lollipop club..

 

[Batvette]

LG Chem cells for the Chevy Volt and Chevy BOLT are made in South Korea. You should check your facts because someone is leading you around with misinformation.


Yes they are.. that's because they're mostly low quality, which means they're cheap.. and American's love low quality cheap crap. Looks like China took a page from our capitalism and is better than we are at it.

Meanwhile, American's want social security, unemployment, medical insurance, and to sue their own employer when they do something stupid.. and then they wonder why there aren't any jobs here or why they don't make more money from the crappy jobs they do have.

You're whining and crying about China kicking our ass.. and how its not fair.. and you want to blame someone.. When the truth is, its your own fault.. but you won't admit that to yourself so all it takes is an orange idiot to point the finger, assign blame, and you're on board.

Keep it up.. you might want to consider teaching your kids to speak Chinese because your bullshit excuses and crying don't mean squat.



LOL.. Every one of these politicians are self serving, your statement implies republicans don't do the exact same thing.

If its any interest to you, it was your own conservative greed that caused it. You should google Citizens United v. FEC and read about how the conservative supreme court allowed big business to have personhood in their political aspirations.. Then come back and tell me all about how democrats are ruining this country.

Damn are people utterly stupid... Reminds me of a drunk driver claiming "I can drive just fine after 4 beers"..

And I said that.... Never.

No the point was that your crooked imbecile President's policies are enriching the people who paid his son millions of dollars.
Not surprising you went off in a rant full of insults in all other directions and pretending I said things I didnt.

 

[Batvette]

If and when there are effective treatments, I am sure that they will make it to the mainstream over time.

The problem is that there have been too many false claims and I can't be expected to check them all. The same goes for the risks, regardless if it is a vaccine or any treatment.

For example drinking your own urine could cure something, now we probably agree that it is unlikely, but it has not been proven that it doesn't.

The one thing I have learned from flat earthers is that it doesn't matter what evidence I produce, they will never believe it. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting that you are a flat earther and that what you believe what you claim. The question you need to answer for yourself is how likely do you think it is that the whole world gets it wrong, but a doctor working on a shoestring budget gets it right? It isn't impossible and while I hope he or some other people have found a working solution, it would be irresponsible for me, a regular person, to advocate people ignore their doctors and put their faith in this guy until there is evidence.

It all comes down to trusting the experts, it is the smart play.

Who in this thread is arguing that the earth is flat? If your position is sound you neednt falsely label the opposition.

You cite "experts" as if the whole medical community is homogenously agreed on a sole course of treatment. Not only is that untrue, its unscientific to discourage alternate treatments. The other users have been producing references from other experts. They arent pulling theories out of their ass or thin air. Im not saying theyre right or wrong, but asserting that youre listening to experts and they arent isnt whats going on here.
In the case of Covid 19 the "experts" are only part of the input over public policy. Officials take their advice as well as that of economists, educators, psychologists, etc. Experts have often issued conflicting orders and guidance steered by agenda of the politicians who control them.
As Americans we are still free to choose what medical treatments to seek for our ailments, whether mainstream or alternative. I would seek the advice of my doctor but if he was infallible then I wouldnt have switched primary care physicians 4 times in the last 20 years.

 

[Batvette]

There ARE effective treatments right now. Maybe you want to ignore that .... but some doctors are treating this VERY effectively.

Why do you guys keep bringing this up? ... Is it because you need to have something you can make fun of? I haven't seen any of the doctors mention something like that in any context.

You must be one because I have presented plenty of evidence that your are ignoring.

This guy has actually treated a massive amount of patients ... successfully ... It doesn't matter if I ignore my doctor because he has no treatment options to offer.

The smart play is to do what works. It is not smart to have no treatment options available to front line doctors.

This illness changes at the 8th day .... that is why I am calling it an illness rather than a virus. While the first phase is a virus ... what happens after that is NOT viral pneumonia ... it is a systemic reaction to the spike protein. The treatment before the 8th day is pretty much as you would treat any virus .... what happens on the 8th day after the first symptom determines how serious it is going to be and the treatment from that 8th day on needs to be much different than while it is still acting like a typical virus.

I didnt see you post anything about drinking urine.
Assuming you didnt, thats either a red herring or strawman. Bring up stupid **** repeatedly for something to ridicule, and hope you take the bait and defend that point as your own.

Me thinks someone has seen the movie "Dune" too many times, or has a golden showers fetish.

 

[Batvette]

Here is what I do if anyone is interested.

My wife and I have not had a sniffle since the pandemic started. My sisters and their family have not either. There is no miracle. Use your head.

A. Never expose yourself to the virus
1. Don't be stupid.
2. Wear an N95 mask whenever you are in inside contact even if momentary. I wear the 3M 9025 mask. I have worn that in public spaces since February 2020.
3. Make sure any indoor space you are in is well ventilated. 2 and 3 are how South Korea and Japan do it. Do not go in restaurants. Do not go to other crowded places. Things will get better. Do not sacrifice your long-term health or endanger others.
4. Consider every contact and whether you can make it lower risk. I use amazon and pick up for groceries etc.
5. Make a Corsi box so it is ready if you have guests (don't) or if someone in yourhouse of gets sick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi–Rosenthal_Box

B. Stay healthy
6. Relax and do things outside. Keep up moderate exercise.
7. Eat healthy. No need for supplements. If you live in winter cloud country supplement with Vit D only to recommended daily level. If you don't eat healthy--daily multivitamin.
8. Sleep!!!!!!!!

C. Get vaccinated. 9. No one should simply rely on vaccination. We are in the middle of a pandemic with a mutating virus. However, vaccination is a safety net and considerably improves your odds regarding hospitalization and death.

D. What if?
10. Buy a pulse ox. (20-30 dollars) They are easy to use. Covid sneaks up on you and people come into the hospital with O2 in the 80's. This will cause brain damage. If you have Covid symptoms and your O2 is below 94. GO IN TO THE HOSPITAL. You may think you feel fine but Covid spirals fast. Early on my friend an ICU nurses said he had never seen anything like it. People talking one minute and then tanking.
12. Buy at home tests but if you are positive-contact your doctor and get an actual test. Paxlovid will be extremely effective against any variant but you need to early on to prevent immune system overreaction. Sitting at home without a formal test puts you days behind. Hopefully, they get a better system but for now be proactive. Assume it will get worse and act now.
13. Have antihistamines, cough syrup, possibly zinc pills, sore throat pain relief, already on hand. Make a Covid kit.
14. Have a plan in place how you will protect other family members if someone test positive. If you have symptoms assume you have Covid and implement the plan. Omicron especially will still test negative even though symptoms are present. You need to be 2-3 days into it. The first twenty minutes of this podcast is excellent in explaining the difference between tests and timing. This discussion will also get into the difference between early immune response and systemic infection. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca...ns-answered-with/id1504128553?i=1000547396721

Oh my.

 

[Batvette]

So BM, I got to thinking today about you and Batvette both thinking you are Batman and driving around in Batman cars. And you are both science deniers are ardent conspiracy fans. What are the odds? I don’t believe in coincidences of this nature. You both are emotionally immature and prefer to live in a fantasy world.

We think we are Batman? You're the one living in a fantasy with these strange unfounded characterizations of other users. Im flattered my presence has had such an impact on you that you spend time dreaming up visions of me putting on a cape and mask and tearing around my community in the middle of the night making life miserable for hoodlums and thugs, but that isnt the case. I sold the Corvette 7 years ago, and it hadnt been on the road for 7 years prior. Its just a username that I thought up as a lark when I first got an AOL account around 1995.

 

[Batvette]

I don't care what party they are from. If they do something illegal, the DOJ will investigate, and if you don't trust the DOJ, then you should probably leave the country because not much else will matter.

You have no knowledge, zero, zip, nada, of any illegal political activities by either party.. the only thing you know is what propagandists tell you, or what the media has told you. You are acting like a farm animal being lead around by their nose ring. They tell you what to think and you're gullible enough to believe it.

This is why you think everything is a conspiracy, its simply because someone told you it was a conspiracy.


Yup, that's a typical response.

Lol, sure they will. Because the DOJ is completely free from political influence, right?
Because Joe Biden wasnt a direct superior to upper management in that agency for 8 years prior, and isnt again.
Funny you talk about propaganda, when the media now is virtually a propaganda arm of the DNC.
All I was saying is that its pretty funny that Joe Bidens policies are benefitting the people that paid his son a lot of money to do seemingly nothing at all.
The fact is Hunter Biden did get a lot of money from China. Lack of action by the DOJ is not an argument something crooked isnt going on there.

 

[Cdkipp]

I didnt see you post anything about drinking urine.
Assuming you didnt, thats either a red herring or strawman. Bring up stupid **** repeatedly for something to ridicule, and hope you take the bait and defend that point as your own.

Me thinks someone has seen the movie "Dune" too many times, or has a golden showers fetish.

He says as he lowers his cup of urine. Maybe we saw the Trump hotel tapes.

 

[Johnson]

Who in this thread is arguing that the earth is flat? If your position is sound you neednt falsely label the opposition.

I think everyone here is convinced that the earth is not flat. And likewise we probably agree that flat earthers sound crazy. It gives you an idea how normal people view people who don't want to take the vaccines but do want to take invermectim.

You cite "experts" as if the whole medical community is homogenously agreed on a sole course of treatment.

I follow the fast majority of the medical experts. There are always outliers, I just take their advise with a grain of salt.

Not only is that untrue,

I agree, but the way you put it is a strawman, I never said that, quite the opposite. (Maybe you missed that)

its unscientific to discourage alternate treatments.

That is not how the scientific method works. People can encourage others to drink their own urine, that does not make it "scientific"

The other users have been producing references from other experts.

So what, experts can be wrong. That is why we follow the scientific method.

They arent pulling theories out of their ass or thin air.

People have a tendency to do just that, most often it leads to nothing, once in a while it pays off.

Im not saying theyre right or wrong, but asserting that youre listening to experts and they arent isnt whats going on here.

Again I follow the science, not next it is always right, but because it is the best available information at the time.

In the case of Covid 19 the "experts" are only part of the input over public policy. Officials take their advice as well as that of economists, educators, psychologists, etc.

I am reading a book about ethics, there are a lot of compromises we have to make. For example "How many people should we allow to die each day if we open up entertainment?" That number will be different for any one here, but lie between 0 and something over 2500 a day.

Experts have often issued conflicting orders and guidance steered by agenda of the politicians who control them.

We elected politicans to make those decisions managable.

As Americans we are still free to choose what medical treatments to seek for our ailments, whether mainstream or alternative. I would seek the advice of my doctor but if he was infallible then I wouldnt have switched primary care physicians 4 times in the last 20 years.

You are free to make decisions when it comes to your own health, and I strongly believe that you should. But a pandemic effects not only you it effects every one. If we want freedom we also need to be responsible, and include the plight of others in our decision making process.

 

[Cdkipp]

Ivermectin Didn’t Save Japan From Covid-19

Why basic critical thinking is quite important when it comes to repurposed medications

gidmk.medium.com

 

[Cdkipp]

"Many people who experience neurologic symptoms that linger after acute COVID-19 are less than 50 years old and were healthy and active prior to infection" https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm2052