EcoFlow DELTA 1300 (Plug-N-Play)

[mxp]

Thank you for sharing that picture.
I am somewhat relieved that there is a possibility the EVSE charger that came with my Nissan Leaf could work.

In their marketing videos, they've used the Tesla as an example, but I always assumed, any manufacturer supplied 110V charger should just work. I hope I am right about that...

Glad to hear some more backers posting thoughts. I'm looking forward to December so I can play around with my DELTA. In regards to the grounded AC outlets. This image was taken directly from EcoFlow's video of the DELTA charging up the Tesla model 3:

View attachment 1588

It looks to me like there is a hole for the grounding lug of the extension cord to sit in. Now obviously there is no actual connection to a ground rod like there is in normal house wiring, but the cords should work.

I wanted to attach the full video in mp4 format but the forum won't let me, check it out on their campaign page though. I hope to own a Tesla one day, been dreaming about it for years. This could buy someone with an EV a few miles at least in an emergency.

 

[MrWegas]

The max output is 1800W at 120V, which would make it 15 amps. I suppose you could use the adapter but don't expect 30 amps.

How many amps yopu get from Delta if ypu p[lug several things at opnce like TV, computer, monitor, phone charger, and more...

 

[NinjaDeathMonk]

How many amps yopu get from Delta if ypu p[lug several things at opnce like TV, computer, monitor, phone charger, and more...

It can do 1800W continuous (15 amps) but it can handle a surge of 3300W (27.5 amps).

On another note, my pledge got canceled.

 

[mxp]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that your EcoFlow pledge was cancelled.
Not sure whereabouts you're located, but it must be impossible to ship large batteries to your location....

It can do 1800W continuous (15 amps) but it can handle a surge of 3300W (27.5 amps).

On another note, my pledge got canceled.
View attachment 1626

 

[mxp]

Hi pnwsun,
Are you able to help me check out this brand of panel/specs and see if 2 of these connected in series would not cause problems charging the EcoFlow Delta 1300?

SunEdison 335 Watt SILVANTIS F-SERIES Mono 72 Cell 35mm Frame

Solar Panel 335 Watt

www.mlsolar.com

Thanks!

DELTA Solar Panel Sizing

Most PV inverters and charge controllers that I'm aware of do not have any Over-Voltage protection on the PV input. Meaning if you put too much voltage in, you will fry your unit. Amps are easy to use an inline breaker or fuse typically. Something else to be aware of in regards to PV module operation: A Clear Sunny COLD day will be the best production and can spike the PV voltage. For this reason PV system designers typically take the VOC of the series string and then multiple by 1.25 for a safety factor for those few Sunny Cold days that pop up.

For me personally, I'm not usually a fan of 'flexible' and 'foldable' PV modules due to their lack of long term reliability. I like reputable PV manufacturers that offer a standard industry warranty on a framed, glass enclosed, durable PV module. I also like to support North American PV manufacture when possible (it can be difficult). EcoFlow wants to sell you PV modules with the unit however I opted not to for this reason.

PV module options that should work well:

Heliene 180W 36 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.74A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 23.79V
Standard Warranty - 10 Year workmanship 25 year linear power output to 80%
Made in North America

(2) of these in series would be 360W input. 23.79 VOC * 2 = 47.58V * 1.25 (safety) = 59.48V


Trina Tallmax Plus 380W 72 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.94A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 48.8V
Standard Warranty - 10 Year workmanship 25 year linear power output to 80%

48.8 VOC * 1.25 (safety) = 61V

Only problem: I have not been able to find a solar distributor who carries either of these yet.


Rich Solar 190W 36 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.86A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 24.3V
Warranty: 5 Year workmanship 25 year power output to 80%

(2) of these in series would be 380W input. 24.3 VOC * 2 = 48.6V * 1.25 (safety) = 60.75V

My one hesitation is that 5 year material warranty, the PV industry standard is a 10 year material warranty. Some high quality panels even have a 25 year material warranty to match the power output warranty (Panasonic HIT+ series are some of my favorite).

That said, I know Will has done some testing on various 12V nominal PV modules and he did like the Rich Solar. That could be the way to go for the Delta.

Any other good PV module choices you guys can come up with?

 

[pnwsun]

mxp -

Two of them would be too much voltage, max input is 65V. One would work just fine though.

SunEdison 335W 72 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.29A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 46.4V

46.4 VOC * 1.25 (safety) = 58V

 

[mxp]

Hi pnwsun,
Thanks for your analysis.

Recently, a friend of mine also suggested purchasing a used solar panel.
Assuming there are known methods to test/verify the panel's operational condition, do you think it's a reasonable path to take?

Rgds,
mxp

mxp -

Two of them would be too much voltage, max input is 65V. One would work just fine though.

SunEdison 335W 72 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.29A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 46.4V

46.4 VOC * 1.25 (safety) = 58V

 

[NinjaDeathMonk]

Hi pnwsun,
Thanks for your analysis.

Recently, a friend of mine also suggested purchasing a used solar panel.
Assuming there are known methods to test/verify the panel's operational condition, do you think it's a reasonable path to take?

Rgds,
mxp

Sure. Several members here have purchased used panels.

 

[mxp]

Hello pnwsun,
I think I am likely going with these panels: 160W Renogy Mono panels
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MZKY9H5

(2) of the Renogy 160W modules in series: 22.9 VOC * 2 = 45.8V * 1.25 (safety) = 57.25V

Pls let me know what you think about Renogy solar panels...

mxp - Absolutely, happy to help. I think the (2) Rich Solar 190 watt modules in series is probably the best option. As I mentioned, I don't even know where I can buy those other 2 options right now.

Connecting panels in series on the higher end of the Voltage limit is the best way to do it, more efficient and you save on wiring compared to parallel. I calculated a generous safety factor (1.25 is the industry standard) for the modules. The DELTA has a max input of 65 V.

(2) of the Rich Solar 190W modules in series: 24.3 VOC * 2 = 48.6V * 1.25 (safety) = 60.75V still well under the 65 V.

I would have no hesitation with this configuration at any temperature.

 

[pnwsun]

I think Renogy would likely be a fine choice. They are probably on the same quality level as Rich Solar. As you show in the above calculation the (2) 160s in series would be well below the 65V input limit. Personally between the two I would choose the (2) Rich Solar 190s just for more power.

Buying a used PV module could also be a good choice if you get a really good deal. I would caution you on older models as tech has improved in regards to bypass diodes and the robustness of internal connections (longer life) and you would definitely need to test it for power output as it's possible the module has degraded significantly sometimes due to hairline fractures in the cells.

In regards to the longer warranty, high build quality options that are utilized in large quantity installations across the globe; I have more trust that they will last for a very long time. Here are 2 options of 72 cell modules that you can buy right now. The advantage of 1 large module (compared to 2 smaller ones) is lower wiring cost and complexity and less racking depending on how you plan to mount them or orient them to the optimal sun angle. Disadvantage of course is portability. Trina is one the the largest PV module manufacturers in the world, they are a Chinese company. Mission Solar is a good option if you are looking for American manufactured.


Trina 380W 72 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.94A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 48.8V

48.8 VOC * 1.25 (safety) = 61V

https://a1solarstore.com/trina-380w-pv-module-ts4-connector-pv-wire-tsm-380-de14a-ll.html

Mission Solar 375W 72 cell Mono
Short Circuit Current (ISC) : 9.826A
Open Circuit Voltage (VOC) : 48.16V

48.16 VOC * 1.25 (safety) = 60.2V

https://a1solarstore.com/mission-solar-375w-solar-panel.html


If anyone else has PV module ideas for the EcoFlow DELTA, please continue to post them.

 

[Kevin.E]

Hello Will
I just watched your YouTube review thank you It was very informative.


Can you test a battery connected to the solar input?
- will the delta regulate the current?
- ie. 24v battery get limited to 240w input?

 

[Deleted member 783]

@pnwsun , what is your affiliation with EcoFlow?

 

[pnwsun]

I have Zero affiliation with EcoFlow. I'm just a guy interested in Solar PV, batteries and related tech. I thought the DELTA looked like a great unit compared to others out there so I bought one on the earlybird kickstarter and wanted to start some discussion with this thread.

Will -
Thanks for the thorough review of the unit, I knew your look and tests would be much more complete than the 'others'. I'm looking forward to see what else you come up with over the next couple months. I intend to use it for camping, power outages, and emergencies. It sounds like it fits the bill perfectly for that and I'm more excited to receive my unit now. I never expected it to compare with a standalone LiFePO4 system (such as Battle Born) with high quality components, that is the direction I would go if designing a system for stationary everyday use at an off-grid cabin or house. For the price though, the DELTA looks amazing.

For those of you who have not seen Will's review of the DELTA, here it is:

 

[Deleted member 783]

I give up.

 

[Curb71]

Surprised this thread hasn't got a bump since I and quite a few others have received their Delta(s). Somehow, NOBODY until today, has noticed that the AC outlets on the US versions are backwards. Even the pictures of the prototypes from Kickstarter and the owner's manual show the same. Usually the larger prong is on the left however it's the opposite on the delta.

I guess only items that have a polarized ground plug actually matter. I checked a bunch of things at home and nothing has a polarized plug that I've found. Another member mentioned his pressure washer and a couple power tools did. So those cannot be plugged into the Delta because the larger prong slot is on the wrong side. He recommended using This adapter but it's unclear if this poses a safety risk. No one seems to know if the outlets are actually wired incorrectly or if just the faceplate is backwards.

I'm betting my money there's a lot more knowledgeable people over here than on Facebook. Ecoflow still hasn't chimed in yet. Wondering how this is going to play out.

Maybe it's a non-issue as polarized plugs are rare and the adapter is an easy solution? Maybe the unit is wired incorrectly and will need to be recalled?
What do you guys think?

 

[Bob142]

Edited 1/24/2020 to remove inaccurate assertions and conclusion based on EcoFlow official response.

Wow. That's an egregious annoying error for a US$1,200 unit. I wonder if there are other errors that we can't see.

(Safety assertions and conclusion removed. They were incorrect and misleading.)

 

[Curb71]

Appreciate your thorough reply. I already have my deltas and would be willing to test to see if it's wired incorrectly but am unsure how. Ecoflow just released this statement on Facebook:

This post is mainly for some US backers asking about the three polarized plugs for grounding recently.

First of all, this use case only involves the DELTA US version. The Majority of US home appliances do not use this configuration of plugs.

Secondly, for backers who inquired about the possible safety issue related to this matter, we would like to address that because we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires. DELTA has passed all UL testing including R, RL, RC, RCD, and many other load tests with all kinds of plug configurations. We stand behind every product we make and take your safety very seriously.

For customers who need to use a device with a three-pronged polarized plug for grounding, please contact our customer service team at support@ecoflow.com and we can provide a polarized grounding adapter to accommodate your needs.

 

[Bob142]

From EcoFlow:
"we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires"

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)



That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

 

[mxp]

Hi,

Just wondering if EcoFlow will ever fix the reversed polarity issue, despite them saying the Delta passed all of UL safety certifications?
Suppose they won't fix it, would it be easy for us to open the enclosure, and reverse the face plates around (or perform whatever necessary to right it..) ?

Just hoping someone here on the forum might know....
Thanks!

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)

View attachment 4997

That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

 

[John Frum]

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)

View attachment 4997

That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

I wonder if its a sub assembly that is inverted for the top row.
Neutral is usually on the left but doesn't really have any meaning without a bond to ground, or at least that is the way I understand it.

 

[Bob142]

I wonder if its a sub assembly that is inverted for the top row.
Neutral is usually on the left but doesn't really have any meaning without a bond to ground, or at least that is the way I understand it.

Agreed. I don't think I had it right before as my mind was in house wiring mode. Looks like the Delta problem is down to a mechanical issue. You can't plug three-prongs in! Perhaps someone qualified will be willing to open up their $1200 unit and see if they can do the swap I outlined above.

 

[John Frum]

Agreed. I don't think I had it right before as my mind was in house wiring mode. Looks like the Delta problem is down to a mechanical issue. You can't plug three-prongs in! Perhaps someone qualified will be willing to open up their $1200 unit and see if they can do the swap I outlined above.

Since its black on black I thought there was a hole for the ground.
Similar devices have a hole that the ground plug goes into but its not an electrical connection.
I think this is relevant but I have not read it.
separately derived systems

 

[pnwsun]

Hey guys, I just received my unit early this week, a little later than some others.

Yes it has the same issue however I'm still very happy with the DELTA. The issue is that the 'larger' slot is on the right whereas if you look at a normal US outlet, the 'larger' slot is on the left. This would only be a problem if you have a 3 prong cord that does have one blade larger than the other. If the 3 prong cord has 2 blades of the same size, it will work fine, there is a hole for the grounding plug (not actually grounded of course). Any 2 blade cord works fine, no matter if one blade is larger. I have been checking all my cords in the house, including my fridge, expensive surge protector strip, computer, TV, even my 100' 12 gauge outdoor extension cord for yard work - all these grounded plugs have the blades of the same size and work fine in the DELTA as is. Go ahead and check all your cords, I think the grounded plug with 2 different size blades is a rare one, in that rare case, they provide the adapter.

I wrote to them about the issue as well and got a fairly quick response similar to what Curb71 posted:

"First, the majority (>95%) of home appliances do not use this configuration of plugs. This configuration of plug is a very specific type, which features three-prongs and also where one blade is bigger than the other blade.

Second, all the other plugs works as intended. A normal three-prong plug, two-prong plugs would work - which are featured in most of home appliances. Also two-prong plugs where the one blade is bigger than the other blade would work without any problems with DELTA.

Third, we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires. DELTA has passed all UL testing including R, RL, RC, RCD, and many other load tests with all kinds of plug configurations. We stand behind every product we make and take your safety very seriously.
If you need to use a specific appliance that features a three-pronged polarized plug, we can provide a polarized grounding adapter to accommodate your needs."

Yes I wish it was built perfect in the first place. But I'm not worried about it all and I think this is a minor issue, I'm just going to get an adapter for the super rare cord and call it good. They would not have passed all the UL testing if there was a risk of shocking yourself by using it as intended. I'm definitely not going to open up my brand new unit for this.

I'm just ready for some sun now so I can test my PV modules.

 

[Ely]

I was surprised about the lifetime battery guarantee. That is brave. At the other side after 800 cycles the batteries down to 60 %? Not a surprise, I suspect the cells are normal Li-NMC and the extreme short time to charge this thing is full stress for the battery. The extreme discharge rates too.

And what should doing a European user if the batteries are dead? Send the whole unit to get a guarantee service back to the US?

 

[mxp]

I have a 2011 Nissan Leaf, and the manufacturer supplied L1 (110V) charger does not work with the Delta battery unit.
The charger is attempting to detect a ground, before operation. Therefore, it won't work for me.

I will be contacting EcoFlow to see if they can figure out a solution. Similarly, I believe Tesla owners will have the same issue if using their manufacturer supplied charger.

Since its black on black I thought there was a hole for the ground.
Similar devices have a hole that the ground plug goes into but its not an electrical connection.
I think this is relevant but I have not read it.
separately derived systems