EcoFlow DELTA 1300 (Plug-N-Play)

[Bob142]

Edited 1/24/2020 to remove inaccurate assertions and conclusion based on EcoFlow official response.

Wow. That's an egregious annoying error for a US$1,200 unit. I wonder if there are other errors that we can't see.

(Safety assertions and conclusion removed. They were incorrect and misleading.)

 

[Curb71]

Appreciate your thorough reply. I already have my deltas and would be willing to test to see if it's wired incorrectly but am unsure how. Ecoflow just released this statement on Facebook:

This post is mainly for some US backers asking about the three polarized plugs for grounding recently.

First of all, this use case only involves the DELTA US version. The Majority of US home appliances do not use this configuration of plugs.

Secondly, for backers who inquired about the possible safety issue related to this matter, we would like to address that because we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires. DELTA has passed all UL testing including R, RL, RC, RCD, and many other load tests with all kinds of plug configurations. We stand behind every product we make and take your safety very seriously.

For customers who need to use a device with a three-pronged polarized plug for grounding, please contact our customer service team at support@ecoflow.com and we can provide a polarized grounding adapter to accommodate your needs.

 

[Bob142]

From EcoFlow:
"we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires"

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)



That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

 

[mxp]

Hi,

Just wondering if EcoFlow will ever fix the reversed polarity issue, despite them saying the Delta passed all of UL safety certifications?
Suppose they won't fix it, would it be easy for us to open the enclosure, and reverse the face plates around (or perform whatever necessary to right it..) ?

Just hoping someone here on the forum might know....
Thanks!

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)

View attachment 4997

That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

 

[John Frum]

That must be the case since they have a floating ground (not connected to earth ground). So perhaps the hazard I discussed doesn't apply like it does for your home wiring. Although based on that response it makes me suspect that they have it wired backwards from what you would expect. Looking at pictures of the unit, it looks like they just got the bottom row and top row reversed (move the green to the bottom, move the red to the top...)

View attachment 4997

That just leaves a really dumb and inconvenient mistake for users to work around on their expensive Deltas. Weird that nobody caught it at any point. Hopefully the unit works really well for you and other backers and this isn't indicative of overall quality from EcoFlow. Good luck.

I wonder if its a sub assembly that is inverted for the top row.
Neutral is usually on the left but doesn't really have any meaning without a bond to ground, or at least that is the way I understand it.

 

[Bob142]

I wonder if its a sub assembly that is inverted for the top row.
Neutral is usually on the left but doesn't really have any meaning without a bond to ground, or at least that is the way I understand it.

Agreed. I don't think I had it right before as my mind was in house wiring mode. Looks like the Delta problem is down to a mechanical issue. You can't plug three-prongs in! Perhaps someone qualified will be willing to open up their $1200 unit and see if they can do the swap I outlined above.

 

[John Frum]

Agreed. I don't think I had it right before as my mind was in house wiring mode. Looks like the Delta problem is down to a mechanical issue. You can't plug three-prongs in! Perhaps someone qualified will be willing to open up their $1200 unit and see if they can do the swap I outlined above.

Since its black on black I thought there was a hole for the ground.
Similar devices have a hole that the ground plug goes into but its not an electrical connection.
I think this is relevant but I have not read it.
separately derived systems

 

[pnwsun]

Hey guys, I just received my unit early this week, a little later than some others.

Yes it has the same issue however I'm still very happy with the DELTA. The issue is that the 'larger' slot is on the right whereas if you look at a normal US outlet, the 'larger' slot is on the left. This would only be a problem if you have a 3 prong cord that does have one blade larger than the other. If the 3 prong cord has 2 blades of the same size, it will work fine, there is a hole for the grounding plug (not actually grounded of course). Any 2 blade cord works fine, no matter if one blade is larger. I have been checking all my cords in the house, including my fridge, expensive surge protector strip, computer, TV, even my 100' 12 gauge outdoor extension cord for yard work - all these grounded plugs have the blades of the same size and work fine in the DELTA as is. Go ahead and check all your cords, I think the grounded plug with 2 different size blades is a rare one, in that rare case, they provide the adapter.

I wrote to them about the issue as well and got a fairly quick response similar to what Curb71 posted:

"First, the majority (>95%) of home appliances do not use this configuration of plugs. This configuration of plug is a very specific type, which features three-prongs and also where one blade is bigger than the other blade.

Second, all the other plugs works as intended. A normal three-prong plug, two-prong plugs would work - which are featured in most of home appliances. Also two-prong plugs where the one blade is bigger than the other blade would work without any problems with DELTA.

Third, we are cooperating with the UL standard, DELTA is using off-grid inverters which do not require a specific orientation between the neutral and hot wires. DELTA has passed all UL testing including R, RL, RC, RCD, and many other load tests with all kinds of plug configurations. We stand behind every product we make and take your safety very seriously.
If you need to use a specific appliance that features a three-pronged polarized plug, we can provide a polarized grounding adapter to accommodate your needs."

Yes I wish it was built perfect in the first place. But I'm not worried about it all and I think this is a minor issue, I'm just going to get an adapter for the super rare cord and call it good. They would not have passed all the UL testing if there was a risk of shocking yourself by using it as intended. I'm definitely not going to open up my brand new unit for this.

I'm just ready for some sun now so I can test my PV modules.

 

[Ely]

I was surprised about the lifetime battery guarantee. That is brave. At the other side after 800 cycles the batteries down to 60 %? Not a surprise, I suspect the cells are normal Li-NMC and the extreme short time to charge this thing is full stress for the battery. The extreme discharge rates too.

And what should doing a European user if the batteries are dead? Send the whole unit to get a guarantee service back to the US?

 

[mxp]

I have a 2011 Nissan Leaf, and the manufacturer supplied L1 (110V) charger does not work with the Delta battery unit.
The charger is attempting to detect a ground, before operation. Therefore, it won't work for me.

I will be contacting EcoFlow to see if they can figure out a solution. Similarly, I believe Tesla owners will have the same issue if using their manufacturer supplied charger.

Since its black on black I thought there was a hole for the ground.
Similar devices have a hole that the ground plug goes into but its not an electrical connection.
I think this is relevant but I have not read it.
separately derived systems

 

[John Frum]

I have a 2011 Nissan Leaf, and the manufacturer supplied L1 (110V) charger does not work with the Delta battery unit.
The charger is attempting to detect a ground, before operation. Therefore, it won't work for me.

I will be contacting EcoFlow to see if they can figure out a solution. Similarly, I believe Tesla owners will have the same issue if using their manufacturer supplied charger.

Hold the phone, are you attempting to charge your Nissan Leaf from an EcoFlow delta?
Cause that just won't work for a bunch of reasons.

 

[mxp]

During the Kickstarter period, I messaged them that I had a Nissan Leaf which came with a 110V manufacturer supplied portable charger. This is a slow charger which owners keep in the trunk of the Nissan Leaf for emergency purposes. The EcoFlow admins messaged me back, stating that it will work with the Nissan supplied portable charger. No special cables are needed they said.

Similarly, there is a video from EcoFlow showing how someone can charge their Tesla with what seems to look like a "special" cable. I didn't ask EcoFlow anything about the Tesla since I don't have a Tesla.

Currently, what I discovered is that the Nissan portable charger is showing a "blinking" green led when the 3-prong cable is attached to the Delta without the ground connected to anything Ie. the pin is hanging out in the center cavity of the Delta. The Nissan manual clearly states that the error condition of a "blinking" green led on the charger is an indication that no ground was detected and the charger cannot begin operation.

So, perhaps something like this adaptor on Amazon could work for me:

Amazon.com

Hold the phone, are you attempting to charge your Nissan Leaf from an EcoFlow delta?
Cause that just won't work for a bunch of reasons.

 

[John Frum]

Currently, what I discovered is that the Nissan portable charger is showing a "blinking" green led when the 3-prong cable is attached to the Delta without the ground connected to anything Ie. the pin is hanging out in the center cavity of the Delta. The Nissan manual clearly states that the error condition of a "blinking" green led on the charger is an indication that no ground was detected and the charger cannot begin operation.

So, perhaps something like this adaptor on Amazon could work for me:

Amazon.com

According to you, the ground pins on the charger and the adaptor have nothing to electrically mate with on the Delta.
That is a problem for this charger.
Another problem is that the Delta can only supply < 5% of the capacity of the Leaf.
I guess you could look at it as a gerry can of electrons but it will take most of an hour to empty and will stress the delta to the breaking point.
Have you verified that the charger works with a proper mains supply?

At this point I would get the company to either make good on their claim or provide some other remedy.
This video may help, been a while since I watched it though.

 

[mxp]

Thanks for the video. In the early part of the video it mentioned that there was no continuity of earth to the circuit board. So, is it true that ground circuit is not a requirement for operation? I am simply going with the manual from Nissan, indicating the blinking green LED indicates no ground detected. This 110V charger that I currently have, works properly in any other regular AC wall outlet.

I understand, the Delta can only supply a small fraction of the capacity.
Then only practical use case is to use it simply as an emergency battery charge for a few miles...
It will not be used as a daily charge pack. I have my regular L2 EV chargers at home which does it.

I don't mind stressing out the Delta every once in a while either.
Kickstarter backers get lifetime warranty on the batteries.

I simply want the manufacturer supplied charger to work off the Delta.

According to you, the ground pins on the charger and the adaptor have nothing to electrically mate with on the Delta.
That is a problem for this charger.
Another problem is that the Delta can only supply < 5% of the capacity of the Leaf.
I guess you could look at it as a gerry can of electrons but it will take most of an hour to empty and will stress the delta to the breaking point.
Have you verified that the charger works with a proper mains supply?

At this point I would get the company to either make good on their claim or provide some other remedy.
This video may help, been a while since I watched it though.

 

[John Frum]

So, is it true that ground circuit is not a requirement for operation?

Nope.
There can not be any ground because there is nothing on the delta for a ground pin to connect to, confirm?

This 110V charger that I currently have, works properly in any other regular AC wall outlet.

Here is a test you can do to validate my assertion.
Find a cheater adaptor or a two prong extension cord to put between the charger and the mains that isolates the ground.
You will see the same behaviour that you see with the Delta.
Please share your test results.

 

[mxp]

I just tested with the cheater plug. You are correct.
My 110V charger behaved the same on the Delta. i.e. the green blinking LED.

So, EcoFlow responded back today to my charger issue.
They will be sending me a couple of "polarized grounding connectors".

I have no idea what these connectors are. Do you know?

Nope.
There can not be any ground because there is nothing on the delta for a ground pin to connect to, confirm?



Here is a test you can do to validate my assertion.
Find a cheater adaptor or a two prong extension cord to put between the charger and the mains that isolates the ground.
You will see the same behaviour that you see with the Delta.
Please share your test results.

 

[John Frum]

I just tested with the cheater plug. You are correct.
My 110V charger behaved the same on the Delta. i.e. the green blinking LED.

So, EcoFlow responded back today to my charger issue.
They will be sending me a couple of "polarized grounding connectors".

I have no idea what these connectors are. Do you know?

My WAG is that it is a device that bonds neutral to ground and passes hot and neutral to the delta.
Please don't try that on your own, I have not thought through the safety aspects.
Pretty sure it would be a bad idea to plug the device I imagine into a mains outlet.

 

[Kevin.E]

Hello
Can someone with a Delta connect a 48v battery to the solar charge port and see if the charge controller inside the delta limits the current to below 10 amps?

I am interested to see if a 48v battery could be used to expand the capacity of the Delta. Understanding it will be limited to the 400 watt input on the solar input connection.

tks
Kevin

 

[Curb71]

I'm not sure about the Nissan Leaf, but I was able to charge my Tesla with the Delta.

 

[Curb71]

I just tested with the cheater plug. You are correct.
My 110V charger behaved the same on the Delta. i.e. the green blinking LED.

So, EcoFlow responded back today to my charger issue.
They will be sending me a couple of "polarized grounding connectors".

I have no idea what these connectors are. Do you know?

Yeah. It's a polarized grounding adapter. Only necessary if you actually have a 3 prong polarized plug. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-So...8DUNCrlleQOZFwpf5iBoCZ7MQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds