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EG4 6000EX-48V paired with EG4 LL 100AH battery practical use

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casey2191

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Sep 28, 2022
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New to the forum so feel free to correct anything that I am doing wrong.

I have been wanting a solar set up for a decade now and after a lot of indecisiveness I finally forced myself to pull the trigger. I landed with signature solar and the EG4 6000w split phase inverter and EG4 LL 48v 100 AH battery. The solar panels are Canadian Solar and I can fit 14 of them on my roof at 355 watts a piece.

My hope is I can separate out some home run circuits at my house (obviously lower loaded ones) and have them solely run off the solar set up. Basically try to find a happy medium where I am utilizing the solar power gained but not using the grid to recharge the battery all the time.

I literally just ordered this set up today and while I know you can spend a lot more, it's a lot of money to me so I'm very anxious.

Does anyone have any pointers or see gaping holes in my plan?

Any comments or concerns would be greatly appreciated. I will post my progress and set up as everything comes in and I get it up.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
How many batteries?
Click to expand...
I just bought one for now considering the cost I was going to try to trial run it. Do you think I should go ahead and get another?

I know my solar array is oversized for a 48v 100ah battery bank, but I thought maybe I could choose circuits to run off of it that are used more during the day?
 
The unit itself consumes the better part of 90W+ just being on having AC power available. That's 90W * 24h = 2160Wh. That's 2160/5120 = 42% of your battery capacity - just for the privilege of having it on - no loads. That's 0.42 * $1449 = $609 in battery you had to pay for but can't use.

This also means that 1-2 panels on your roof are dedicated to replacing the energy consumed by the unit. Factor that into the cost as well.

Given the reduced array power and unusable capacity, plan your loads accordingly. Make sure you factor the 90W 24/7 load from the inverter when planning your system.
 
Thank you!
It hurts my pride to be so ignorant but thank you for taking the time to show it to me. I went and looked at the spec sheet and it's actually worse it says 115w idle power consumption.
Do you have a suggestion? Is this typical idle power consumption for inverter or should I look for a more efficient one? Cheaper batteries? Or is this just the cost of doing solar?

Thank you again.
 
casey2191 said:
Thank you!
It hurts my pride to be so ignorant but thank you for taking the time to show it to me. I went and looked at the spec sheet and it's actually worse it says 115w idle power consumption.
Do you have a suggestion? Is this typical idle power consumption for inverter or should I look for a more efficient one? Cheaper batteries? Or is this just the cost of doing solar?

Thank you again.
Click to expand...

115W * 24h = 2760Wh = 2760/5120 = 54% of your battery capacity.

This is extremely typical of these low-end Chinese made inverters. You have to get your wallout out and do it serious harm to upgrade to Tier-1 hardware, so you're still ahead of the game. You just have to plan for the higher idle burn.

Example:

$1299 + .54*1449 + about $400 in PV/mounting. That puts the price at about $2500 for your EG4.

However, even Tier-1 hardware burns some power. A Pair of Victron multiplus 3kW will consume 34W, so that adds about $350 in unusable battery/panel, putting the pair of multiplus at $3110.

The EG4 still wins because it has a 120A PV MPPT, which will cost you > $1000 in Victron hardware plus another $500 in hardware to fully revel in the lusciousness that is Victron VRM.

You haven't made a mistake, you just didn't have all the information. IMHO, that unit is probably not usable with only one battery. The manual indicates the recommended minimum battery size is 200Ah, so a second battery would make what you have more usable.

While painful, another battery right now will probably help avoid frustration and buyer's remorse due to unforeseen limitations when you try to implement it. Many people take your original path and end up, "WTF? Why did my inverter shut down last night?" because they didn't account of the high idle consumption.
 
I see now. So I have one more question, where I am installing this I am already connected to the grid and have a relatively cheap rate. In my head I would use this system to put a few circuits on the majority of the time without the batteries completely discharging, but getting close enough to complete discharge that I am getting good use out of it.
However by doing this there will be times when it's raining for a few days that the system will inevitably be insufficient. Instead of using the grid AC backup through the inverter, which means I'll be paying to keep the inverter going, I would rather use a transfer switch to go back to the grid until the batteries are back charged from solar.
Is this feature already available and I'm not realizing it? Is there something I am missing or would this not be ideal?
 
casey2191 said:
I see now. So I have one more question, where I am installing this I am already connected to the grid and have a relatively cheap rate. In my head I would use this system to put a few circuits on the majority of the time without the batteries completely discharging, but getting close enough to complete discharge that I am getting good use out of it.
However by doing this there will be times when it's raining for a few days that the system will inevitably be insufficient. Instead of using the grid AC backup through the inverter, which means I'll be paying to keep the inverter going, I would rather use a transfer switch to go back to the grid until the batteries are back charged from solar.
Is this feature already available and I'm not realizing it? Is there something I am missing or would this not be ideal?
Click to expand...
There is an output priority setting on the inverter that will allow you to run pass through power from the grid when your PV is ineffective.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
115W * 24h = 2760Wh = 2760/5120 = 54% of your battery capacity.

This is extremely typical of these low-end Chinese made inverters. You have to get your wallout out and do it serious harm to upgrade to Tier-1 hardware, so you're still ahead of the game. You just have to plan for the higher idle burn.

Example:

$1299 + .54*1449 + about $400 in PV/mounting. That puts the price at about $2500 for your EG4.

However, even Tier-1 hardware burns some power. A Pair of Victron multiplus 3kW will consume 34W, so that adds about $350 in unusable battery/panel, putting the pair of multiplus at $3110.

The EG4 still wins because it has a 120A PV MPPT, which will cost you > $1000 in Victron hardware plus another $500 in hardware to fully revel in the lusciousness that is Victron VRM.

You haven't made a mistake, you just didn't have all the information. IMHO, that unit is probably not usable with only one battery. The manual indicates the recommended minimum battery size is 200Ah, so a second battery would make what you have more usable.

While painful, another battery right now will probably help avoid frustration and buyer's remorse due to unforeseen limitations when you try to implement it. Many people take your original path and end up, "WTF? Why did my inverter shut down last night?" because they didn't account of the high idle consumption.
Click to expand...
The only other math to consider is that some of the idle power, around 50% comes from solar, so battery impact is 50%

victron means 2x 120v for the same performance as they do not have any split phase yet, so 2x25w =50w vs 115w 24hrs is 65w/hr delta so 1.56kwh per day, divide by 2 and you get .78kwh savings

Speaking of victron... stay tuned :)
 
SignatureSolarJames said:
The only other math to consider is that some of the idle power, around 50% comes from solar, so battery impact is 50%
Click to expand...

Not really. It's simply a load. You design for it exactly the same way you do for any other load. You have to account for it daily in your array, and whatever your backup power time period is.

The reality is that all loads are powered partially both both, but you don't change the design approach because the inverter is the source of the load.

It has to be designed for in the daily PV requirement.

It has to be designed for in the 24 hour backup requirement.

SignatureSolarJames said:
victron means 2x 120v for the same performance as they do not have any split phase yet, so 2x25w =50w vs 115w 24hrs is 65w/hr delta so 1.56kwh per day, divide by 2 and you get .78kwh savings
Click to expand...

Check your numbers. If you're shooting for 6kW, then you only need 2X 48/3000, and the MP-II is down to 11W each, so only 22W.

One could also choose a 230V EU unit for 240/60Hz with an autotransformer with negligible power draw - you're familiar with this approach with your Growatt offering.

As the proud owner of 2X Quattro 48/5000, I'm all too aware of the $ pain. They're about 54W combined, but I have 8kW and gobs of surge.

You might have noticed I'm "that guy," who always pops in to blab about the high power consumption of these cheap units. I do that not to steer them away, but to avoid seeing yet another disappointed owner who didn't know about it. If they plan for the load and are okay with the additional costs, then it's an informed decision.

Too many posts of folks wondering why their AiO is dead after 2-3 days with no loads attached.

SignatureSolarJames said:
Speaking of victron... stay tuned :)
Click to expand...

I'm all ears (eyes).

I love victron, but I wish they'd work harder on UL 1741. I'm hoping i don't have to swap out my hardware when I start caring about permits and such.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
Not really. It's simply a load. You design for it exactly the same way you do for any other load. You have to account for it daily in your array, and whatever your backup power time period is.

The reality is that all loads are powered partially both both, but you don't change the design approach because the inverter is the source of the load.

It has to be designed for in the daily PV requirement.

It has to be designed for in the 24 hour backup requirement.



Check your numbers. If you're shooting for 6kW, then you only need 2X 48/3000, and the MP-II is down to 11W each, so only 22W.

One could also choose a 230V EU unit for 240/60Hz with an autotransformer with negligible power draw - you're familiar with this approach with your Growatt offering.

As the proud owner of 2X Quattro 48/5000, I'm all too aware of the $ pain. They're about 54W combined, but I have 8kW and gobs of surge.

You might have noticed I'm "that guy," who always pops in to blab about the high power consumption of these cheap units. I do that not to steer them away, but to avoid seeing yet another disappointed owner who didn't know about it. If they plan for the load and are okay with the additional costs, then it's an informed decision.

Too many posts of folks wondering why their AiO is dead after 2-3 days with no loads attached.



I'm all ears (eyes).

I love victron, but I wish they'd work harder on UL 1741. I'm hoping i don't have to swap out my hardware when I start caring about permits and such.
Click to expand...
Having the UL talk with them.
the MP II is even more $, but I get what you say

The solar supplied idle is practical for holistic off grid analysis, but not in an RV situation

We are working on 6kw idle consumption as it is complaint #1
 
Since we don't know how the automatic transfer switch works(EG4 doesn't provide any doco) and the unit is not ul-458 listed I would not recommend it for a mobile application.
 
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