EG4 6500EX-48 alternatives with low idle consumption

[lmpsr]

I am happy with this inverter except for the high idle consumption. I am averaging a bit over 120w. I mainly use this as grid backup. I am limited in my amount of PV for a number of reasons, and on a good day I can just make up for the inverter overhead over a 24 hr period... about 3kW. Most of the inverters with low consumption require a separate charge controller connected directly to the battery, so I can't utilize the PV directly.

Are there any all-in-ones with the features of the 6500EX-48, but with low consumption?

 

[Adam De Lay]

I had a pair of 6500s and was averaging 168w for the pair in idle consumption. I just installed a pair of Victron Multiplus 2 5kVA inverters and now I’m down to 35W total in idle consumption saving almost 3.2kWh a day.

Depending on how you have an external charge controller wired up, your inverter can still utilize the power before it goes into the battery. I actually found the separate charge controller fixed some flickering light issues as well as the inverter switching between battery and grid randomly when there was a drastic surge or drop in PV.

 

[lmpsr]

I had a pair of 6500s and was averaging 168w for the pair in idle consumption. I just installed a pair of Victron Multiplus 2 5kVA inverters and now I’m down to 35W total in idle consumption saving almost 3.2kWh a day.

Depending on how you have an external charge controller wired up, your inverter can still utilize the power before it goes into the battery. I actually found the separate charge controller fixed some flickering light issues as well as the inverter switching between battery and grid randomly when there was a drastic surge or drop in PV.

Thanks, Adam. I had followed some of your journey on youtube. Didn't realize that you had dumped the EG4s. Did you post some videos about the change? I would like to discuss your changes further if you don't mind... either on the forum or privately if you prefer.

 

[lmpsr]

Thanks, Adam. I had followed some of your journey on youtube. Didn't realize that you had dumped the EG4s. Did you post some videos about the change? I would like to discuss your changes further if you don't mind... either on the forum or privately if you prefer.

I watched your Victron videos and they answered most of my questions. I guess my main remaining one is how to utilize the PV power before it goes to the battery, as you alluded. Are you referring to Power Control or Power Assist? I'm not sure that they do what I want.

 

[Adam De Lay]

From my understanding and how I’ve seen it work, since the inverters and SCC are on the same bus bar, and when the inverter needs power, it pulls from whatever available power source is on that bus bar.

If there’s enough solar power being dumped on the bus bar, it will use that power before it gets to the battery. Any excess power from Solar will go into the battery to charge. If there’s not enough Solar to fulfill the load request, then the battery is drawn from as well.

Hope that makes sense and hope I’m explaining it correctly.

 

[Zwy]

I am happy with this inverter except for the high idle consumption. I am averaging a bit over 120w. I mainly use this as grid backup. I am limited in my amount of PV for a number of reasons, and on a good day I can just make up for the inverter overhead over a 24 hr period... about 3kW. Most of the inverters with low consumption require a separate charge controller connected directly to the battery, so I can't utilize the PV directly.

Are there any all-in-ones with the features of the 6500EX-48, but with low consumption?

A single 200W panel would cover that, I understand you are limited for PV but would another panel be possibly added?

For a system the size of mine, the idle consumption is not noticeable. I run the house completely off the grid and only 8.4K of PV. For my truck camper, I installed a switch in the galley and we only turn on the inverter when needed.

You could automate the system to power up the inverter when grid goes down.

 

[lmpsr]

A single 200W panel would cover that, I understand you are limited for PV but would another panel be possibly added?

For a system the size of mine, the idle consumption is not noticeable. I run the house completely off the grid and only 8.4K of PV. For my truck camper, I installed a switch in the galley and we only turn on the inverter when needed.

You could automate the system to power up the inverter when grid goes down.

I don't want to cover the loss, I want to largely eliminate it. It's just wasteful. I could keep the inverter off except when the sun is shining, but then I lose UPS capability most of the time, especially at night. And I'm still wasting power when the inverter is on, just not as much. Maybe I'm asking too much, but it seems like there must be some premium brand out there that does all this.

 

[Derka181]

I am happy with this inverter except for the high idle consumption. I am averaging a bit over 120w. I mainly use this as grid backup. I am limited in my amount of PV for a number of reasons, and on a good day I can just make up for the inverter overhead over a 24 hr period... about 3kW. Most of the inverters with low consumption require a separate charge controller connected directly to the battery, so I can't utilize the PV directly.

Are there any all-in-ones with the features of the 6500EX-48, but with low consumption?

I have a sp6548 and the issue is the power consumption in idle and the loud fans.

 

[jamiegreen]

I think this is just to be expected with AIOs, most of them seem to be pretty poorly refined in terms of power consumption. Maybe that will get better with future firmware updates I don't know. It's obviously possible since my 5kva multiplus draws <20w. I think if you really want to save on idle power you need to separate your system into standalone components.

 

[lmpsr]

I think this is just to be expected with AIOs, most of them seem to be pretty poorly refined in terms of power consumption. Maybe that will get better with future firmware updates I don't know. It's obviously possible since my 5kva multiplus draws <20w. I think if you really want to save on idle power you need to separate your system into standalone components.

I suspect it has to do with the biasing of the FETs or something. Maybe the premium brands use some kind of dynamic biasing or something. Or maybe the massive transformer is just more efficient. I was surprised when watching the unboxing and teardown of Adam DeLay's 5kVA Multiplus how much simpler the circuitry seems to be than similar teardowns by Will of the Voltronic units. I think it's interesting that the idle consumption of the latest 6500EX-48 is 120-125W, whereas earlier units were more like 85W, and LV6548s are more like 70W.

 

[lmpsr]

Thanks. That helps. Does that mean that when there is PV available, the ATS switches to inverter, and the inverter draws what it can from the PV first, then negotiates with the battery for the remaining overage/underage? Does the grid keep charging the battery at the same time if needed? In your picture, the PV is higher than the load, so there are flow lines to the battery and inverter. There don't seem to be flow lines from the AC IN or to the load, but clearly there is power to the load. Maybe you screen grab was taken during a gap in the flow lines. What happens when the PV is lower than the load? Does the inverter go to battery for the balance, or the grid? Can these priorities all be set? Are you aware of a document which explains the theory of operation in detail?

 

[jamiegreen]

Thanks. That helps. Does that mean that when there is PV available, the ATS switches to inverter, and the inverter draws what it can from the PV first, then negotiates with the battery for the remaining overage/underage? Does the grid keep charging the battery at the same time if needed? In your picture, the PV is higher than the load, so there are flow lines to the battery and inverter. There don't seem to be flow lines from the AC IN or to the load, but clearly there is power to the load. Maybe you screen grab was taken during a gap in the flow lines. What happens when the PV is lower than the load? Does the inverter go to battery for the balance, or the grid? Can these priorities all be set? Are you aware of a document which explains the theory of operation in detail?

Just in simple terms to my knowledge, as long as PV is available and is higher than the AC load, although the inverter may show as drawing from batteries it's always going to be pulling all available PV power. The only time you'd actually be "drawing" from the batteries would be if the load was higher than the PV input, in which case you'd draw the difference. In my case my SCC is not victron like the rest of the kit so there is no talking between them, the battery is just kind a buffer between the supply and load, and whatever isn't going to load is used to battery charging. No fancy switches or setup, it's just how it flows.


As for drawing from batteries and grid priorities, this is all very adjustable. I believe it's called ESS. Victron has a lot of documentation on their website.

 

[Zwy]

I have a sp6548 and the issue is the power consumption in idle and the loud fans.

If it is charging with PV coming in, any of the AIO's need to run the fans. If the inverter is powering heavy loads, it needs to run the fan.

I'd rather have a loud fan than no fan. Electronics fail from heat over long term use.

 

[Adam De Lay]

Thanks. That helps. Does that mean that when there is PV available, the ATS switches to inverter, and the inverter draws what it can from the PV first, then negotiates with the battery for the remaining overage/underage? Does the grid keep charging the battery at the same time if needed? In your picture, the PV is higher than the load, so there are flow lines to the battery and inverter. There don't seem to be flow lines from the AC IN or to the load, but clearly there is power to the load. Maybe you screen grab was taken during a gap in the flow lines. What happens when the PV is lower than the load? Does the inverter go to battery for the balance, or the grid? Can these priorities all be set? Are you aware of a document which explains the theory of operation in detail?

I’m guessing this response was directed towards me.

So the Victron Multiplus works a little differently than the 6500s. It was initially designed for the RV/Marine aspect where you use battery power until shore power (ac in) is available. Anytime AC In is available, by default it switches to that to power your loads and charge up your batteries. I’ve changed mine to use AC In similar to how the 6500s use it (battery power till I reach a certain SOC, then the AC In relay closes and loads are powered by AC In).

PV will charge (and be used by the loads) regardless of what state your inverter is in (as long as your battery isn’t full).

I believe there’s a beta firmware update which allows you to specifically prioritize your power source, but I haven’t looked into it at all.

I’m not aware of any documentation based on my assumption. I saw the same thing though on my 12v system with my Smart Shunt, my Renogy 40a charge controller and my Giandel 2200w inverter.