Eg4 Lifepower4 battery is ticking on start

[Shimmy]

If it’s software related then why is not everybody complaining about this?

Because the magnitude of the problem is very much driven by the inverter model, number of batteries, and details of the installation and operation. The pre-charge resistor is not user-tunable with the current software, which should change.

A number of people having problems either had too small or a battery or used incorrect procedures. Those that remain have legitimate problem. From what I see here, I would expect the legitimate problem category is generally solvable with better tuning options on the pre-charge resistor. I don't think this type of battery/BMS will ever be suitable for a >20kW inverter system though.

 

[Shimmy]

I'm still waiting for a video of this issue occuring when the battery is not connected to anything. Till someone posts that, I don't see an issue here. Those are super sensitive to inrush, just like all other server rack packs. Can someone please post a video of this issue when cables are not connected to the pack.

Nobody has said that is an issue, IIRC. People aren't buying paperweights though.

 

[mmmnnn]

Because the magnitude of the problem is very much driven by the inverter model, number of batteries, and details of the installation and operation. The pre-charge resistor is not user-tunable with the current software, which should change.

A number of people having problems either had too small or a battery or used incorrect procedures. Those that remain have legitimate problem. From what I see here, I would expect the legitimate problem category is generally solvable with better tuning options on the pre-charge resistor. I don't think this type of battery/BMS will ever be suitable for a >20kW inverter system though.

My inverter is 3kw, and I used a pre charger capacitor. Plus doesn’t this battery already have a capacitor pre charge feature so you don’t need to do that?

 

[mmmnnn]

I'm still waiting for a video of this issue occuring when the battery is not connected to anything. Till someone posts that, I don't see an issue here. Those are super sensitive to inrush, just like all other server rack packs. Can someone please post a video of this issue when cables are not connected to the pack.

How’s that? I’ve used a capacitor with a Victron 3kw inverter and it’s still ticking upon the inverter contactor close when turning on!

 

[goldserve]

My inverter is 3kw, and I used a pre charger capacitor. Plus doesn’t this battery already have a capacitor pre charge feature so you don’t need to do that?

You gotta make sure the dc breaker to the inverter is turned on first like in the video I linked.

 

[goldserve]

How’s that? I’ve used a capacitor with a Victron 3kw inverter and it’s still ticking upon the inverter contactor close when turning on!

With regards to a contractor closing, there could be more upstream capacitance and this would be an issue. It is best to get an idea of the peak current when the contractor closes. The only way I can think is to have multiple parallel batteries to supply the inrush in this case.

 

[mmmnnn]

I'm still waiting for a video of this issue occuring when the battery is not connected to anything. Till someone posts that, I don't see an issue here. Those are super sensitive to inrush, just like all other server rack packs. Can someone please post a video of this issue when cables are not connected to the pack.

How it's super sensitive to inrush current if it has a precharge resistor
Marker 1:17 of your review

 

[Quattrohead]

Can someone post a video of these batteries not connected to anything at all, and causing the error, clicking and disconnect? And post it here?

Completely irrelevant, not how it is going to be used.
I think I remember the outrush current limiter resistor circuit board being a separate piece, so if say the resistor is a poorly chosen value, a quick and simple board change could be all that is required.
Edit to add, yep right there in this video, 10 ohm resistor and a circuit board.

 

[mmmnnn]

With regards to a contractor closing, there could be more upstream capacitance and this would be an issue. It is best to get an idea of the peak current when the contractor closes. The only way I can think is to have multiple parallel batteries to supply the inrush in this case.

it's an Rv! couple laptops and an idle microwave

 

[mmmnnn]

Completely irrelevant, not how it is going to be used.
I think I remember the outrush current limiter resistor circuit board being a separate piece, so if say the resistor is a poorly chosen value, a quick and simple board change could be all that is required.

I guess u mean that inrush resistor pointed out in will review

 

[Will Prowse]

Completely irrelevant, not how it is going to be used.
I think I remember the outrush current limiter resistor circuit board being a separate piece, so if say the resistor is a poorly chosen value, a quick and simple board change could be all that is required.
Edit to add, yep right there in this video, 10 ohm resistor and a circuit board.

No, not irrelevant. You need to use pre charge resistor with all inverters. Been saying this for years in my videos. I don't care if it's eg4 or any other battery, it does not matter. need to precharge caps regardless. I would trip Battleborns 4 years ago doing this without a resistor.

My issue here is there is no clear documentation for using the eg4 pre charge resistor circuit. So charging caps manually is ideal till they release documentation stating how to use pre charge circuit.

 

[Will Prowse]

I guess u mean that inrush resistor pointed out in will reviewView attachment 105153

Yep and we still have zero documentation on how to use it. Look at the manual.

 

[Will Prowse]

How it's super sensitive to inrush current if it has a precharge resistor
Marker 1:17 of your review

Because you need to follow a protocol for using that circuit. It's not automatic as everyone thinks. It needs to be reset typically to trigger it. This protocol is not documented so people think the pre charge resistor is enabled automatically. It's not.

 

[Will Prowse]

How’s that? I’ve used a capacitor with a Victron 3kw inverter and it’s still ticking upon the inverter contactor close when turning on!

What? Post a video of it not connected to anything and turning off. Did you use pre charge resistor or enable the pre charge resistor circuit?

 

[Will Prowse]

My inverter is 3kw, and I used a pre charger capacitor. Plus doesn’t this battery already have a capacitor pre charge feature so you don’t need to do that?

You need to run a protocol to use the pre charge resistor circuit. And please post a video of you pre charging the caps and having it shut down. Post the video here.

 

[Will Prowse]

Nobody has said that is an issue, IIRC. People aren't buying paperweights though.

Yes they are saying that's an issue. It was posted previously in this thread. You can't connect a battery to a inverter with large caps and not expect it to shut down. This has been the case for all lifepo4 with BMS for years now. Battleborns, valence etc. They all do that. You must use pre charge resistor, or follow protocol to use pre charge resistor circuit or it will trip from the inrush.

 

[goldserve]

it's an Rv! couple laptops and an idle microwave

Sorry, probably I need educating but I’m not familiar with the setup of the victron system. Is the contactor closing for the 120v output to the panel or is it some internal thing for the DC 48v side?

 

[Koldsimer]

According to James, The owner of Signature Solar:
The pre charge will be automatically turned on in 3 states，
The first is after the bms is powered on
The second is after waking up from sleep (no load)
The third is after pressing the button to reset the BMS

This is copied directly from post #1001 in the thread i started regarding this issue. It took 6 months to get this info from Signature. I still have doubts that it is accurate and would love to see someone capable of testing this and posting their results.

 

[Quattrohead]

No, not irrelevant. You need to use pre charge resistor with all inverters. Been saying this for years in my videos. I don't care if it's eg4 or any other battery, it does not matter. need to precharge caps regardless. I would trip Battleborns 4 years ago doing this without a resistor.

My issue here is there is no clear documentation for using the eg4 pre charge resistor circuit. So charging caps manually is ideal till they release documentation stating how to use pre charge circuit.

I think we might be getting confused saying "nothing connected to the battery" where we really mean "nothing connected to the inverter"
Anyway these batteries seem very sensitive to how a load is first presented to them. My JBD BMS handles this situation gracefully every time with it's own pre-charge system.
Honestly, separate pre-charge resistors/pencils/sweaty fingers should be olde school now with modern BMS's

 

[goldserve]

I think we might be getting confused saying "nothing connected to the battery" where we really mean "nothing connected to the inverter"
Anyway these batteries seem very sensitive to how a load is first presented to them. My JBD BMS handles this situation gracefully every time with it's own pre-charge system.
Honestly, separate pre-charge resistors/pencils/sweaty fingers should be olde school now with modern BMS's

Some constant current sink and a scope should be able to see the 10ohm current limited curve and then unlimited after xx seconds. I would do this but I’m not at home until after next week.