EV Network issues and a possible fix? A thought experiment...

[Texas-Mark]

You're in the 1% of people where EV isn't optimal

Where did you pull that statistic from?

 

[Rednecktek]

Where did you pull that statistic from?

I think the point is that justin is right, EV isn't THE solution to everything, but it is A solution most of the time. Just like my original thought of how to get more EV stations out and available. Waiting for the national brands to get around to putting charging stations where everyone can access them isn't THE solution, and gas stations wiring in their own EV chargers isn't THE solution, I think they could work well together to be A solution.

 

[justinm001]

Where did you pull that statistic from?

From all the data compiled by NHTSA and Department of transportation. Average person drives 29 miles a day and 55minutes.

National Household Travel Survey Daily Travel Quick Facts | Bureau of Transportation Statistics

Daily Travel is a trip from one point to another on a single day.

www.bts.gov

Browse Statistical Products and Data | Bureau of Transportation Statistics

Browse databases, surveys, reports and other statistical products created by BTS. Use BTS tools and apps to build your own statistical tables, graphics and maps.

www.bts.gov

You can dig into all kinds of facts and statistics but the point is its very rare for people to drive more than 100 miles a day or use 4 or more seats or use large trunks/pickup beds.

They don't make EVs with massive range or are massive trucks or can tow a ton because that'll require larger batteries and batteries are expensive. Could they make an ev that has 500mile range? Sure but would you pay a ton more for that extra range? They build MOST vehicles for the masses and base it on demographics.

57% drive a car, 21% drive a van/SUV and 19% drive a truck. There's a reason Tesla has 2 cars, a crossover, a SUV and just now are getting to a truck.

I'd love for you to lookup what percent of personal vehicles drive over 100 miles a day

 

[justinm001]

I think the point is that justin is right, EV isn't THE solution to everything, but it is A solution most of the time. Just like my original thought of how to get more EV stations out and available. Waiting for the national brands to get around to putting charging stations where everyone can access them isn't THE solution, and gas stations wiring in their own EV chargers isn't THE solution, I think they could work well together to be A solution.

FYI most gas stations aren't national chains. Typically people buy gas stations then they lease the pumps out to companies like BP or Shell. Its why you see so many gas stations with different names or no name at all on the building. Or why some are very nice and others are run down. Many gas station owners are foreign because they're able to get Visas and grants to buy a gas station here and immigrate. Its an easy business to run.

You can't always trust the inside of the store but you can always trust the gas.

 

[Rednecktek]

FYI most gas stations aren't national chains. Typically people buy gas stations then they lease the pumps out to companies like BP or Shell. Its why you see so many gas stations with different names or no name at all on the building. Or why some are very nice and others are run down. Many gas station owners are foreign because they're able to get Visas and grants to buy a gas station here and immigrate. Its an easy business to run.

You can't always trust the inside of the store but you can always trust the gas.

Exactly! If the station owner wanted to invest in getting a couple stations set up at their business you wouldn't need Tesla or OneCharge or CarPowerCo or even Chevron or Exxon to step up and decide to do it. I would think that if a station owner wanted to put in a couple ports they would get to keep 100% of the profit and ROI for the install wouldn't take that long.

The concern I had is that I've never heard of or seen anything that can take the place of the card reader built into the gas pump that works for electricity. There would have to be some sort of meter for the Kwh consumed that could be programmed for Cost/Kwh and interface with the card reader or cash at the counter. I think if that problem were licked then the expansion of charging stations, and the profits made by local owners, would be a great thing.

 

[justinm001]

Exactly! If the station owner wanted to invest in getting a couple stations set up at their business you wouldn't need Tesla or OneCharge or CarPowerCo or even Chevron or Exxon to step up and decide to do it. I would think that if a station owner wanted to put in a couple ports they would get to keep 100% of the profit and ROI for the install wouldn't take that long.

The concern I had is that I've never heard of or seen anything that can take the place of the card reader built into the gas pump that works for electricity. There would have to be some sort of meter for the Kwh consumed that could be programmed for Cost/Kwh and interface with the card reader or cash at the counter. I think if that problem were licked then the expansion of charging stations, and the profits made by local owners, would be a great thing.

Chargepoint and others already do the credit card and meter in their chargers. You have to have their account though and they give you a NFC card type thing or you use your phone with their app.

I'm sure there's other devices that do this with just credit cards and they can keep 100% of the profits.

plugshare shows every EV charging station and anyone can add their charge on there

 

[Texas-Mark]

Average person drives 29 miles a day and 55minutes.

Any statistic can be manipulated to get the results you want. I did a quick google, and it said for Texas it's 44 miles per day per driver. But again, you can't just use an average based on number of drivers licences issued.

19% drive a truck.

Another statistic that depends on where you live. Around here, it is like 95% drive a truck.

 

[Rednecktek]

I'm sure there's other devices that do this with just credit cards and they can keep 100% of the profits.

That's what I think the missing link is. I've never found or heard about such a unit yet, but when they appear I hope we'll see more gas stations with charging ports, or restaurants or truck stops or the like.

 

[Shimmy]

Ultimately more L2 chargers are needed at a variety of business types. Shopping malls are one of the best types. It is easy for independent businesses to set up chargers on the ChargePoint (or other) platform where they get a little revenue from them.

But, what you need to avoid range anxiety in a truck towing something is a DC fast charger.

 

[Rednecktek]

But, what you need to avoid range anxiety in a truck towing something is a DC fast charger.

And with the state of todays EV trucks and how much they eat under load, that's a LOT of DC fast chargers EVERYWHERE!

 

[justinm001]

Any statistic can be manipulated to get the results you want. I did a quick google, and it said for Texas it's 44 miles per day per driver. But again, you can't just use an average based on number of drivers licences issued.





Another statistic that depends on where you live. Around here, it is like 95% drive a truck.

Statistics can be manipulated to suit an agenda, FACTS can not, there's a huge difference.

Vehicles are built to be sold throughout the US and even the world. You can't take a small subset of a subset to determine what the rest of the country or world is doing.

BTW I think DOT uses other information compiled and mainly things like registrations and title transfers where they show the mileage. Coupled with fuel sales and other metrics like road traffic metering. They use this data to determine where to build roads/freeways and delegate federal funding for those types of projects.... I'd say they're pretty accurate but I'm sure you can compare to other metrics , maybe google has stats on this as they track using your phones.

You can check yours here https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

 

[justinm001]

And with the state of todays EV trucks and how much they eat under load, that's a LOT of DC fast chargers EVERYWHERE!

They finally released some info on how amazing the Tesla semis are doing. 250-450 mile trips and 30 minute recharge time! Running 12 hours per day too.

Here's How Pepsi Runs Its 21 Tesla Semi Trucks At Sacramento Depot

New video courtesy of The North American Council For Freight Efficiency offers a look into how Tesla's Semi is helping PepsiCo achieve its sustainability goals.

insideevs.com

 

[Rednecktek]

30 minute charge!! ?

As a side note, WTF is the security guard doing in there! That's for us trained ship's electricians like me!

 

[timselectric]

For the local gas station. I think that their best option is to install 3 outlets for customers to plug in their own travel charger. Call it emergency charging. And charge by the hour for parking in those spots. Because it's not legal for them to charge for electricity.
They can pay at the register however they want.
And the outlets are only turned on when payment is received.

 

[n2aws]

For the local gas station. I think that their best option is to install 3 outlets for customers to plug in their own travel charger. Call it emergency charging. And charge by the hour for parking in those spots. Because it's not legal for them to charge for electricity.
They can pay at the register however they want.
And the outlets are only turned on when payment is received.

From a technical standpoint, I like this idea. The cashier can have some small switches that just control contactors for individual outlets. With that, a simple hour meter/timer that gets energized.. starting at 0 and counting up. You're paying to park, the power is free while parked.

 

[Mirlen]

Oh absolutely! My thought was more if a gas station owner decided he wanted to sell EV charging, what would be the easiest way other than relying on a national company to get around to it? It seems that the metering & billing is really the only hurdle to someone hiring an electrician and buying a charger unit off Amazon.

IF you're doing this as part of your business you aren't going to want to deal with maintaining the station/billing. Just use ChargePoint and be done. They have all the billing and maintenance figured out and have a VERY flexible portal to set the system up just about any way you want. Free between x-y hours, first 2 hours free and then $1/hr thereafter, free on weekends, members only so that users have to be authorized, members free, others pay, etc etc etc. I think they already have all this figured out for you.

 

[pollenface]

One thing I hate about EV charging stations is they almost always require you to sign up to an app, have a smartphone, internet connection, etc. Every charging station provider has it's own app/subscription, even the ones at gas stations. That's all good and well until the phone signal drops out. Which happens sometimes in my area.

There was once a time when my wife and I had driven the EV down to about 60% and had planned to try using a public charging station. On the day, the phone data signal had dropped out so we could not access our apps. We weren't boned as we had enough power to drive home, but it was an eye opener, nonetheless.

We have owned our EV since January and have NEVER used a public charging station. It's 340km range is enough for every day needs and we charge it at home.

 

[justinm001]

One thing I hate about EV charging stations is they almost always require you to sign up to an app, have a smartphone, internet connection, etc. Every charging station provider has it's own app/subscription, even the ones at gas stations. That's all good and well until the phone signal drops out. Which happens sometimes in my area.

There was once a time when my wife and I had driven the EV down to about 60% and had planned to try using a public charging station. On the day, the phone data signal had dropped out so we could not access our apps. We weren't boned as we had enough power to drive home, but it was an eye opener, nonetheless.

We have owned our EV since January and have NEVER used a public charging station. It's 340km range is enough for every day needs and we charge it at home.

I'm assuming you're not in US. Here I've only seen a few companies. Tesla chargepoint and 1 or 2 others. Most public/free chargers don't require an app and I think any of the ones that do need an app have a card so when I had an EV I just had the cards in the glove box.

 

[pollenface]

I'm assuming you're not in US.

You assume correct, Perth Australia ??

 

[45North]

In my experience range anxiety is overblown. I have a level 2 charger at home, and I throw my car on the charger every few days. I could easily go a week or more without issue. If you're a contractor or some other profession where you're driving all around town all day, it may be different, but the question to ask yourself is how often do you have to go to the gas station twice in a single day?

The way you "fuel" an EV is very different from how you fuel a gas vehicle. You can top it off every night and never need to go to a charger. The only time most would need to use a charger other than at home/work is when going out of town.

A level-2 charger wouldn't really be enough for a charging station either. Most cars can charge 10X or more faster with a level-3 charger. You don't want to be sitting at a charging station / gas station for hours waiting for your car to charge unless you just cant reach a fast charger.

That's the thing. You don't want to wait at a gas station where there's nothing to do. Service centres with food and toilets are good but pricy - their chargers can cost you more than gas!