diy solar

diy solar

few questions about solar power....

The problem with using a motorcycle battery is that you have far too much charge power for a small lead acid battery.

Invest in a Victron charge controller. Run the 3 panels in series. Be sure to check the VOC on the solar panels and get a charge controller that can handle 20% more voltage than the 3 panel's VOC added up. I am running 5 panels in series, each rated at 22 volts VOC, so I went with a 150 volt charge controller. With 3 panels, you can probably use a 100 volt controller, but check your VOC to be sure.

300 watts into 12 volts is 25 amps. If you plan to expand at all, I would go one or 2 steps bigger to have some room to grow. One of the main reasons I suggest a Victron is you can easily adjust the max current down to what your battery can handle. I have a total of 2,000 watts of panels, but I am running into a 24 volt battery system, so my small 150 volt 35 amp charge controller is good for 35 amps x 48 volts = 1,680 watts if I ran my batteries down that low. My typical voltage is more like 55 volts, so 1,925 watts. Today was the first day I actually saw my system hit the 35 amp limit. And it nicely just limited right at 35 amps.

The one down side to a Victron is it has a lot of adjustable settings. You need to be careful if you go into advanced mode. I had a BougeRV charge controller, it worked ok, but the Victron is way better.

As for the battery, the smallest I would recommend is something like a marine or RV deep cycle battery. They start around 75 amp hours. Most lead acid batteries should be limited to about a 0.1 to 0.2 C charge rate. On a 75 amp hour battery, that would be just 7.5 amps (0.1C) which x 12 volts is only 90 watts. A 100 amp hour battery that can take 0.2 C is up to 20 amps of charge current, x 12 volts = 240 watts.

Hopefully your inverter(s) survived. Most "12 volt" units will shut off if the voltage is below 10.5 volts or above 15 volts, give or take 1 volt. I would try connecting it (Through a 30 amp fuse) to a battery in an idling car. That should give a nice 13.3 to 14.2 volts. See if that inverter will turn on from the car "12 volt" source.
 
It might work ok for a little while, provided you disconnect it before the sun goes down or when it clouds over. It's going to be over discharged in a very short amount of time and repeated over discharging will give you a life span of days rather than months.
 
The problem with using a motorcycle battery is that you have far too much charge power for a small lead acid battery.

Invest in a Victron charge controller. Run the 3 panels in series. Be sure to check the VOC on the solar panels and get a charge controller that can handle 20% more voltage than the 3 panel's VOC added up. I am running 5 panels in series, each rated at 22 volts VOC, so I went with a 150 volt charge controller. With 3 panels, you can probably use a 100 volt controller, but check your VOC to be sure.

300 watts into 12 volts is 25 amps. If you plan to expand at all, I would go one or 2 steps bigger to have some room to grow. One of the main reasons I suggest a Victron is you can easily adjust the max current down to what your battery can handle. I have a total of 2,000 watts of panels, but I am running into a 24 volt battery system, so my small 150 volt 35 amp charge controller is good for 35 amps x 48 volts = 1,680 watts if I ran my batteries down that low. My typical voltage is more like 55 volts, so 1,925 watts. Today was the first day I actually saw my system hit the 35 amp limit. And it nicely just limited right at 35 amps.

The one down side to a Victron is it has a lot of adjustable settings. You need to be careful if you go into advanced mode. I had a BougeRV charge controller, it worked ok, but the Victron is way better.

As for the battery, the smallest I would recommend is something like a marine or RV deep cycle battery. They start around 75 amp hours. Most lead acid batteries should be limited to about a 0.1 to 0.2 C charge rate. On a 75 amp hour battery, that would be just 7.5 amps (0.1C) which x 12 volts is only 90 watts. A 100 amp hour battery that can take 0.2 C is up to 20 amps of charge current, x 12 volts = 240 watts.

Hopefully your inverter(s) survived. Most "12 volt" units will shut off if the voltage is below 10.5 volts or above 15 volts, give or take 1 volt. I would try connecting it (Through a 30 amp fuse) to a battery in an idling car. That should give a nice 13.3 to 14.2 volts. See if that inverter will turn on from the car "12 volt" source.
i really dont care about using the small motorbike battery during no sunlight hours, i can just move the plug from inverter to wall socket.. i imagine it wont give me moew than 2minutes of pc use time....

and i dont know anybody with a car in this country.. im fairly new here...and asia is a motorcycle zone anyways...
 
quick question.. if i buy 2 additional batteries of similar make, similar capacity ? can i keep this "cooked" battery ?. put it in the middle of a series system.... ? or should i just toss it? sorry if im using the wrong terminiology.. i want to link the 3 batteries but stay at 12volts....

EDIT.. i meant parallel sorry...
 
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i would be happy to however.. nothing is colour coded at the moment.. it is all based on my impeccable memory... black cables going everywhere....

transfering photo now.. keep in mind.. it is 11pm here.. im aware thast im cooking the battery.. i have no way to draw from the 12v battery as all my inverters refuse to turn on...View attachment 204235and if you see a nude french Canadian in any reflection.. get off my back its 27c here...... the big block on top is the last inverter i ordered to see if the cyan inverter on the bottom there died or not... the chernobyl looking one on top is obviously rated at 300w.. most likely NOT sinewave... and the cyan one on the bottom is rated at 1000watts.. modified sine wave.. but.. that shouldnt matter anymore since i will be plugging in my pc to the ups directly .. i can only assume that it comes equipped with a sine wave AC output..... the black box on the left is what i use for lighting... solar charged of course.... but please just answer 1 question... can i connect all that to any 12v battery ?.. just to have any inverter chirp back to life to power my pc during the daytime ONLY... and possibly even my tiny refridgerator....
Okay, I am new too so forgive me for asking what might be a stupid question. But it looks like you have a charge controller sitting on top of the battery right below the big block inverter. Is that correct? And you don't have the solar panels connected through the charge controller? If that is all correct, you just need to wire your solar panels to the left two connections on that charge controller. Maybe just start with one panel?
 
quick question.. if i buy 2 additional batteries of similar make, similar capacity ? can i keep this "cooked" battery ?. put it in the middle of a series system.... ? or should i just toss it? sorry if im using the wrong terminiology.. i want to link the 3 batteries but stay at 12volts....
Batteries in parallel stay at the same voltage but the capacity adds. The problem with adding a bad battery in parallel with 2 good new batteries is the bad battery can act as a drag on the new ones. It is not untypical for a bad battery to never achieve full charge.

In order to parallel 3 batteries you would connect all the positives together. All the negatives are also connected to each other. From the first batteries negative you would connect to your neg charge source. From the 3rd batteries positive you connect to the positive charge source.
 
Okay, I am new too so forgive me for asking what might be a stupid question. But it looks like you have a charge controller sitting on top of the battery right below the big block inverter. Is that correct? And you don't have the solar panels connected through the charge controller? If that is all correct, you just need to wire your solar panels to the left two connections on that charge controller. Maybe just start with one panel?
that was actually my next question, can i ram ALL 3 solar panels into 1 charge controller ?.. i mean, it did work once for several days... i really hope i dont need to buy an individual charge controller for every single solar panel....
 
Batteries in parallel stay at the same voltage but the capacity adds. The problem with adding a bad battery in parallel with 2 good new batteries is the bad battery can act as a drag on the new ones. It is not untypical for a bad battery to never achieve full charge.

In order to parallel 3 batteries you would connect all the positives together. All the negatives are also connected to each other. From the first batteries negative you would connect to your neg charge source. From the 3rd batteries positive you connect to the positive charge source.
oh PARALLEL, that was the word i was looking for... if none of my inverters turn on with.. holdon, ill do a quick check since its nighttime..... 9volts.. interresting, maybe because i added a bit of battery acid to the last 2 cells... im really sad that this didnt work out, i was planning on buying.. 10-15 of these batteries and running my AC on this.. the AC is roughly 680 watts so i think i calculatted roughly 16,320 watts to keep my Canadian ass cold.. for free.. of course this was a "future" project as each one of those 12v 100ah batteries cost.. 3000 php roughly...that used to be 60$cad... but the way the CAD is crashing now.. it is impossible to get an accurate reading on the REAL cost....
 
that was actually my next question, can i ram ALL 3 solar panels into 1 charge controller ?.. i mean, it did work once for several days... i really hope i dont need to buy an individual charge controller for every single solar panel....
That depends on the charge controller and your panels. I had a charge controller that could only utilize 2 100 watt panels before it was maxed out. But my new charge controller is able to handle 6 400 watt panels so far.

You will need to check the manual for the charge controller and also check the I think it's voltage open circuit of your panels. There is a whole thing about connecting your panels in series vs parallel in order to max out your charge controller (which I am not at all qualified to advise on).
 
That depends on the charge controller and your panels. I had a charge controller that could only utilize 2 100 watt panels before it was maxed out. But my new charge controller is able to handle 6 400 watt panels so far.

You will need to check the manual for the charge controller and also check the I think it's voltage open circuit of your panels. There is a whole thing about connecting your panels in series vs parallel in order to max out your charge controller (which I am not at all qualified to advise on).
naturally, it is a common charge controller from china.. it just sais 30A maximum, but i dont know if that means IN or OUT... im concerned that i might need a charge controller for EACH of my solar panels.. .. ive only got the one...

as for the manual, ive just begun learning the local Philippine dialect let alone mandarin... which is how the charge controller arrived...
 
Your battery is ruined. A charge controller will limit current or turn off when the voltage goes above the bulk voltage of the battery. That keeps it from cooking. When the voltage goes that high, it boils the electrolyte and the battery is killed.
so adding battery acid to each cell cannot maybe give the battery another go ????
 
naturally, it is a common charge controller from china.. it just sais 30A maximum, but i dont know if that means IN or OUT... im concerned that i might need a charge controller for EACH of my solar panels.. .. ive only got the one...

as for the manual, ive just begun learning the local Philippine dialect let alone mandarin... which is how the charge controller arrived...
I think the 30A is out. Doing a little googling and I saw a couple 30 amp pwm charge controllers that say the max is 450 watts of solar panels (many are made by the same manufacturer). Unfortunately, you usually have to stay under a certain voltage coming from the panels too. This should be in the manual, and you could damage the charge controller if you go over that (worst thing that happened to me though is the charge controller just shut itself off when I was over voltage). You can also damage the charge controller by connecting panels without a functioning battery. So if that battery is fried, you might run into some issues.
 
I think the 30A is out. Doing a little googling and I saw a couple 30 amp pwm charge controllers that say the max is 450 watts of solar panels (many are made by the same manufacturer). Unfortunately, you usually have to stay under a certain voltage coming from the panels too. This should be in the manual, and you could damage the charge controller if you go over that (worst thing that happened to me though is the charge controller just shut itself off when I was over voltage). You can also damage the charge controller by connecting panels without a functioning battery. So if that battery is fried, you might run into some issues.
soo... solution is ? buy 2 or 3 charge controllers and attach a single solar panel to each charge controller ??? or can you suggest anything simpler for my rarely used Quebecois brain?
 
I think you need to start over with your equipment and do it more correctly. You're over volting everything and killing it all. You can save money in the long run by not killing the devices.
You had panels directly onto the battery and directly into the inverters?
You have 3 x 300 watt panels and say it's only doing 18-20 volt on your battery? also killing the inverters but it's probably like 60 volt or something

What are your actual panel specs?

oh PARALLEL, that was the word i was looking for... if none of my inverters turn on with.. holdon, ill do a quick check since its nighttime..... 9volts.. interresting, maybe because i added a bit of battery acid to the last 2 cells... im really sad that this didnt work out, i was planning on buying.. 10-15 of these batteries and running my AC on this.. the AC is roughly 680 watts so i think i calculatted roughly 16,320 watts to keep my Canadian ass cold.. for free.. of course this was a "future" project as each one of those 12v 100ah batteries cost.. 3000 php roughly...that used to be 60$cad... but the way the CAD is crashing now.. it is impossible to get an accurate reading on the REAL cost....
You need 680 watts 24/7 to cool yourself? (which is where your 16320 comes from I'm guessing) you're gonna need way more batteries. It's probably best to spend money on heavy insulation and cool it way down during the day and slowly creep at night lol

These lead acids you'd need 12 hours of night time running at 680 watts is 8160kwh at minimum (assuming 100% efficiency lol) and that's gonna cost a $1000 or so? not sure on their prices
 
I think you need to start over with your equipment and do it more correctly. You're over volting everything and killing it all. You can save money in the long run by not killing the devices.
You had panels directly onto the battery and directly into the inverters?
You have 3 x 300 watt panels and say it's only doing 18-20 volt on your battery? also killing the inverters but it's probably like 60 volt or something

What are your actual panel specs?


You need 680 watts 24/7 to cool yourself? (which is where your 16320 comes from I'm guessing) you're gonna need way more batteries. It's probably best to spend money on heavy insulation and cool it way down during the day and slowly creep at night lol

These lead acids you'd need 12 hours of night time running at 680 watts is 8160kwh at minimum (assuming 100% efficiency lol) and that's gonna cost a $1000 or so? not sure on their prices
as i think i said all products in Philippines come from the neighbouring giant.. China... so a 12v 100AH battery goes for 3000 or so php plus shipping.. they also claim to have 600ah batteries but what is supposed to be a 620 lbs battery is the size of what i have now...... 1 battery has what 1200wh at full charge.. so.. 16,??? wh... yeah.. id need that many batteries...but if i wrecked 1 battery.. im not sure if i wont wreck 10-15 of these bad boys....... so i dont need a charge controller for each solar panel ??

PS.. all these batteries claim to use GEL and not battery acid...
 
wild question here.. IF my inverter isnt turning on because the battery reaches 18-20volts during the daytime.. wouldnt buying a 12-24 volt to AC inverter function ???
 
I will try to explain all of this in fairly simple terms.

If you want to try and use the old battery, you should do a capacity test. Properly charge it to 13.8 volts, and then connect a known load to it, maybe a car headlight. Measure how much power it is putting out and how long it runs for. Is it holding enough energy to be worth the space it takes up? Also measure the voltage under the load. If it is falling below 12 volts, it will take energy away from the other parallel batteries. Batteries in parallel need to have matching voltage. If your old battery has one week cell, it is now a lower voltage and won't work well.

Charge controllers. There are a few different types of PV (photo voltaic) solar charge controllers. The super cheap ones are called PWM for Pulse Width Modulation. It looks that the one you have is this type. They are basically just a semi smart switch. It directly connects the solar input to the battery. Solar panels act like a current source, so the voltage of the solar panel(s) will be pulled down to the battery voltage and you will get a current hopefully close to the solar panel IMP current going into the battery. As the battery charges, the voltage rises. At some point, the charge controller will see the voltage hit it's pre-set voltage limit. For a "12 volt" controller, this should be about 13.5 to 14 volts. It will then turn oiff the current from the solar panels and let the battery voltage fall. It only has to drop a small amount. If there is any load on the system, like running lights or the inverter, the voltage will fall quickly and the PWM charge controller will turn back on. Each on off cycle is a pulse, and the width of each pulse is "modulated" to make the average current match your loads. If you are pulling 5 amps, but the solar panels are pushing 10 amps, it will be on about half the time. It works, but it is not efficient. The amp rating is how much current it can switch. Most PWM systems use "12 volt" panels to "12 volt" batteries. So you run the panels all in parallel. The current of each panel adds up. And use the ISC or I(current) Short Circuit. That is the maximum current the panels is expected to produce. My 100 watt panels are each rated at about 6 amps. So I could put 5 of those on a 30 amp controller. But 30 amps at 12 volts is only 360 watts. And that is where PWM loses energy.

The other most common type of charge controller is MPPT. They do cost more, but they are well worth the extra cost. Using the same 5 x 100 watt 12 volt panels, you would get the full 500 watts in the same conditions. You typically get 30% more energy with an MPPT controller, even when the PWM is doing it's best. Once the battery is full, then it no longer matters. So for a small system to run a few lights, where the battery s filled up easily, PWM works just fine, but if you want the most power to run things like an air conditioner, then you really want to go MPPT. MPPT stands for Maximum Power Point Tracking. The amount of power a solar panel produces varies directly with the amount of light hitting the panels face. The MPPT will constantly measure what the panel is producing a load the panel to the most power possible at any given moment. But that voltage will be constantly changing. So the MPPT uses a DC to DC voltage converter to put that energy into the battery. The maximum power point of my 100 watt panels is up at 18 volts VMP at 5.5 amps IMP. Running 3 of them in parallel is 16.5 amps at 18 volts. The PWM would only produce 17 amps x 13 volts = 221 watts, where the MPPT will produce 16.5 x 18 = 297 watts. 34% more power. And since the MPPT can convert the voltage, you can run the panels in series. Then you get 54 volts at just 5.5 amps. You can use smaller wire and have far less losses on a long wire run to the panels.

MPPT controllers do have current and voltage limits. The current limit is typically on the output side as most reduce the voltage down to the battery, so that current is higher. The voltage limit is on the input side because that is the higher voltage. Victron controllers are a bit expensive, but I ended up changing out my perfectly good working BougeRV MPPT charge controller, and the Victron is better in many ways. Their model numbers are pretty easy. I got the "Smart Solar 150-35" 150 is the input voltage limit and 35 is the output current limit. You set your battery type and it just works.

When trying to run larger loads over time, you need to figure out how much peak power and total energy you are working with. You mention a 680 watt air conditioner. You currently have 3 x 100 watt panels. Assuming you get pretty good sun exposure, let's say you get an honest 5 sun hours per day. 300 watt x 5 = 1,500 watt hours. 1,500 / 680 = 2.2 hours. 300 watts of solar panel on a good day could run the air conditioner for just 2.2 hours. If you add more battery, it may run longer from fully charged, but then what is going to charge the batteries again? You can only get out the energy that is put in. How many hours do you want the air conditioner to run for in a single day? "Sun Hours" may be a little odd to understand, so I will try to explain it here. This is the energy plot from my larer Enphase AC PV solar power system.

Enphase-03-14-24.JPG

I have a total of 4,800 watts of panels on that. On that day (March 14, 2024) the system produced 25.9 kilowatt hours.
25,900 watt hours / 4,800 watts of solar panels = 5.4 "Sun Hours" of daylight hit the panels. That is a very good day for late winter/early spring here in southern California. Now the sun was shining, and it was daylight from 7 am to 6:30 pm, or 11.5 hours, but the energy hitting my fixed angle panels started low, ramped up, peaked about 1 pm, then ramped back down over those 11.5 hours. I got about the same energy as if it was perfect noon time sun for just 5.4 hours. That is "Sun Hours" also called solar insolation. You will see there are 2 other lines in the graph. The higher one has a few dips in it, that is clouds going by. That is the trace from the day before. Those clouds dropped the total energy to 23.3 KWHs. That is a loss of 2.6 KWHs just from a few clouds. The lower trace was the same day but from last year. We had a storm with heavy clouds and that really reduced production. Only making 3.3 KWHs, or less than 1 sun hour over the entire 11 hours of daylight.

If you want to run a 680 watt air conditioner for 10 hours of the day, you need 10 x 680 = 6,800 watt hours. Let's say you can get a fairly consistent 4 sun hours per day. 6,800 watt hours / 4 hours = 1,700 watts. Yes, you would need 1,700 watts of solar panels to produce the energy needed to run the air conditioner for 10 hours a day. On a good sunny day, it may run longer, on a cloudy day, it may not run as long.

If you are only going to run it while the sun is up, you don't need a whole lot of battery, but you do still need more than you might think. Let's say it is high noon and the panels are making 1,700 watts. Great! The 680 watt air conditioner is using those 680 watts right now, but that leaves 1,020 watts coming from the panels. That needs to go into the batteries. At 12 volts that is 1,020 watts / 12 volts = 85 amps of charge current. OUCH! that is a lot for a battery. Lead acid can typically only charge at 0.1 C or just 10 amps for a 100 amp hour battery. Even a good Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) battery should only be 0.5 C or 50 amps to a 100 amp hour battery. Some will take a full 1.0C 100 amps, but check with the manufacturer. And when a cloud goes by, if the solar panel output dropped to zero, the full 680 watts needs to come from the battery to keep the AC running. 680 / 12 = 57 amps. The battery needs to supply 57 amps when the sun is not hitting the panels. That should not be too hard. But since the solar panels are not making peak power most of the time, the battery needs to flatten it out. Also keep in mind that I did not even bother to calculate any efficiency losses, or the compressor start surge from the AC. I would suggest having enough battery to store a full day of solar production. Let's call it 7,000 watt hours at 12 volts = 583 amp hours of battery capacity.

It adds up pretty fast when you want to run a decent amount of power for several hours.

The best way to design a system is always to start from the amount of energy you need to provide. Power x time for everything you want to run. When it is all added up, you can see how much battery and solar panel is needed.

I have a total of 6,800 watts of solar panels now, and 36,000 watt hours of battery (720 amp hours at 50 volts) and a 6,800 watt inverter that can run virtually everything in my house. But I am still grid tied as I run out of power from time to time.
 
soo... solution is ? buy 2 or 3 charge controllers and attach a single solar panel to each charge controller ??? or can you suggest anything simpler for my rarely used Quebecois brain?

Right now, I wouldn't buy anything. First I would look on the back (front, top and bottom) of your charge controller. Get the make and model. See if you can google some info about it in English. Then you can see how much you can panel it with and how much you can charge.

After that, make sure you have a good battery. I think someone already suggested a load test on the battery with a light or something. Sounds good to me. Once you know you have a good battery, connect that (and only that) to the charge controller and see if it powers on. Nothing else connected to the battery or charge controller yet.

If the charge controller powers on, you can then try the same light test through the dc load connectors on the charge controller. I think they are the pair to the right.

One thing to be careful with is how many amps you can push into your battery. So if that is a 30A charge controller, it can push up to 30 amps into the battery. But motorcycle batteries are pretty small right? I bet that is way too much power for them. Some charge controllers allow you to limit the amount of amps it'll try to push into the battery. I'm not sure if yours has that capability but without it, you'll probably cook the battery as soon as you hook up a solar panel...

Assuming everything works this far and you can limit the amps, I would drain the battery some. Can't tell you with what or how much because I don't have any experience with what you are using. But after it's been drained a little, connect a single solar panel. If the sun is out, see if the charge controller starts a charging cycle. I can't tell you what it would look like on the screen but if you found an English manual. :)

That is what I would do. Seems like there is a lot to try before investing any more money.
 
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okay thank you for all the information given so far, but im looking for an answer to tap into the solar power right now..... soo.. new battery ? a 4th inverter ? a charge controller for each solar panel ? or mppt ??
and nobody looked at my question about if a 12-24v inverter to AC

will it turn on if my 12v battery is at 18volts during the daytime ???

please just give me a direct answer.. what do i need ??
 
okay thank you for all the information given so far, but im looking for an answer to tap into the solar power right now..... soo.. new battery ? a 4th inverter ? a charge controller for each solar panel ? or mppt ??
and nobody looked at my question about if a 12-24v inverter to AC

will it turn on if my 12v battery is at 18volts during the daytime ???

please just give me a direct answer.. what do i need ??
You need an entire solar system. What do you have still working we can salvage that I guess

You need batteries, an inverter that matches them, a charge controller that matches.. or an AIO for both. and then finally you can plug in the solar panels to that thing

You can't keep buying different things that don't match / can't output

If you get 4x 12v batteries and put them in series you'll get 48v which will require less amps to reach your wattage goal of your devices.
Can you buy any of these AIO devices where you are? Or what do you have already?
 
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