Fire suppression

[Shimmy]

Best fire protection is the hi-fog mist system. Limited collateral damage, purges particulate. There are some self-contained versions as well.

 

[eXodus]

If lithium battery should ever catch fire - there is not much you can do.

As former firefighter - some stuff is really difficult to put out.

Firefighters dunk smoking $150,000 electrified BMW in tank of liquid to extinguish it

Nothing like a cool bath.

www.foxnews.com

Fire departments around the world are buying large shipping container to drop burning EV cars into and submerge.

It's really the only way of stopping a battery fire. Batteries contain everything they need to burn. Since most Fire extinguishers are just removing the access to oxygen - it's not really doing much to a battery fire. When they are hot enough they just chemically react other things in the electrolyte. Water is pretty good it removes access to air and cools things down - but the high voltage is a concern.

A Inverter fire should not be burning long. There is not much material inside a metal box which should burn. The question is how you get the extinguishing stuff inside. - Through the vent holes?

Just pointing you extinguisher at the inverter will probably no accomplish much. Sure Helps with the fire not spreading, but you need to get the powder or whatever you use inside the device.

I've seen something new:

[Hot Item] Automatic Tube Fire Extinguisher for Electrical Devices

Type: Automatic Fire Agent: FM200 Application: for Electrical Devices Capacity: 1m, 2m, 4m, 5m Key Words: Automatic Tube Fire Extinguisher Activated Temperature: 100 Degrees~120 Degrees

m.made-in-china.com

Those are pressurized tubes - attached to a extinguisher bottle for inside devices- as soon as a fire burns through the tube in a hot area - all the powder / Co2 comes rushing through the opening. Pretty neat concept - no idea if it works.

 

[WYtreasure]

I really like the idea of my batteries living on a cart, right next to the door. Yank the fire out the door and head for the neighbor's pool.

 

[Hedges]

Fire departments around the world are buying large shipping container to drop burning EV cars into and submerge.

If the container was filled with this stuff, then the car might not be a total loss:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/data-center-us/applications/immersion-cooling/fluorinert-electronic-liquids/

 

[RV10flyer]

RF smoke alarms. Big red Emerg shutdown switch outside power shed that shuts off all PV inputs and 240VAC outputs. 40 lb CO2 plumbed over batteries. 1/2" ceramic fiber matting between all 10 16S 280aH batteries. 1/4" concrete hardibacker over and/or under all batteries on my heavy duty double shelf wood workbench. 100' from house.

 

[crossy]

Our server rooms are protected by N2 (nitrogen) suppression systems, non-toxic (it will still kill you if you don't get out), environment friendly, what's not to like?

I wonder what it works like on battery fires.

And, of course, it isn't cheap.

Our batteries are isolated from the house in a steel and cement board shed, if they do go up I will be unhappy, but not as unhappy as I would be if they took the house with them. And they are LiFePO4 anyway so less likely to go fzzzz.

 

[eXodus]

I really like the idea of my batteries living on a cart, right next to the door. Yank the fire out the door and head for the neighbor's pool.

hang the 19 inch rack from plastic ropes of the ceiling - above a water barrel or pool.
If it starts burning - the ropes disintegrate and the whole thing drops into water

 

[Nobodybusiness]

RF smoke alarms. Big red Emerg shutdown switch outside power shed that shuts off all PV inputs and 240VAC outputs. 40 lb CO2 plumbed over batteries. 1/2" ceramic fiber matting between all 10 16S 280aH batteries. 1/4" concrete hardibacker over and/or under all batteries on my heavy duty double shelf wood workbench. 100' from house.

Did you use the TIGOs ?
What is the actuator for the CO2?

Everything else sounds like mine..

 

[WYtreasure]

hang the 19 inch rack from plastic ropes of the ceiling - above a water barrel or pool.
If it starts burning - the ropes disintegrate and the whole thing drops into water

I'll bet a nickle your idea has been snatched up by the net snoopers and is on the drawing board. Nice one eXodus
Sounds like the same principle as fire sprinklers.

 

[Hedges]

If it starts burning - the ropes disintegrate and the whole thing drops into water

Anderson connectors, and it also provides "in-flight disconnect" function.

Remember Archimedes! (Eureka!)
Otherwise, you'll come home to an overflowing Jacuzzi.

Do the math (on stored energy and latent heat of vaporization), determine if there is enough water to keep battery covered, or if tank needs to be deeper or automatically refilled.

Everything is an engineering problem. We just got told by EH&S that we couldn't store anything at the bottom of the flammables cabinet - that is for secondary containment. For some reason only one shelf came with it. We need two, so we can have a lower shelf as well.

 

[eXodus]

I'll bet a nickle your idea has been snatched up by the net snoopers and is on the drawing board. Nice one eXodus
Sounds like the same principle as fire sprinklers.

I like low tech solutions. I work very high tech and bleeding edge, but always try to simplify as much as possible.

One of my guiding questions I always try to answer for a engineering project:

Can you solve this problem with a stick or a sticker? Stick stands for "simple tool or part" and Sticker/decal stands for "simple obvious communication" We (engineers) tend to overthink things.

Do the math (on stored energy and latent heat of vaporization), determine if there is enough water to keep battery covered, or if tank needs to be deeper or automatically refilled.

water has a very high density and needs a ton of energy to boil. I'm would be more concerned about a server rack falling into the barrel and spilling all water before it can do any good probably need to add a aerodynamic nose under the rack so that the splash is not as violent and does not disperse as much water.

Maybe a more controlled decent would interesting- something like that the ropes hold the main weight - but it still supported on a shock absorber type cylinder which lets it then slowly glide under water.

 

[RV10flyer]

Did you use the TIGOs ?
What is the actuator for the CO2?

Everything else sounds like mine..

Sol-Ark has two terminals. I used a large red button with SPNO contact. I have to push it in for 3 seconds.

A manual valve/regulator for CO2, plumbed with soft copper line.

 

[SolarHead]

Can you solve this problem with a stick or a sticker? Stick stands for "simple tool or part" and Sticker/decal stands for "simple obvious communication" We (engineers) tend to overthink things.

Reminds me of the story of the little girl that went with her Dad the local sheriff to an accident. It was a tractor trailer stuck under an overpass. The overpass was too low and the trucks trailer got snagged. The wrecker driver was there, a state trooper, local deputy and they were all discussing with the truck driver on how best to solve the problem. The engineer said "lets remove the asphalt, raise the I-beams and reconstruct the bridge after removing the truck. The state trooper said, no, we'll have the truck removed by calling in the national guard they will know what to do. The tow truck driver said "we can bring in 4 more tow trucks and attach them together and pull the truck out". The entire time the sheriffs little girl had been tugging on his shirt tail and he kept telling his daughter to wait, wait till we get this fixed and we'll go get ice cream, just a few more minutes. The men kept discussing ways to get the truck out and the traffic that was backing up was getting bad. The little girl continued to pull on her daddies shirt tail. He looked and forcefully said "what is it?", she said "why don't you just let the air out of the trucks tires?".

Same story, but little old lady with a walker stops by and says same thing. Heard both versions over the years.

 

[eXodus]

she said "why don't you just let the air out of the trucks tires?".

Lol I actually lowered the air in tires once, to get a Van into a garage, was just missing a inch of clearance.

I did like everything in the book before that, filled up the tank, loaded it up with random heavy stuff etc. Was already thinking about where I can get different tires and wheels to get it lower. It's a skill to see the obvious.

Sure not everything can be solved with a simple item, but we should keep trying.

 

[hodgmo]

Some good ideas in this thread. Another fireproofing idea to consider is the use of intumescent paint, for example: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Firetec...rdant-Paint-Coating-for-Wood-102W-1/307899625

I painted the walls and ceiling above my LFP battery with that product. https://photos.app.goo.gl/YibAMQf3QTh3fKaz8

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Sol-Ark has two terminals. I used a large red button with SPNO contact. I have to push it in for 3 seconds.

A manual valve/regulator for CO2, plumbed with soft copper line.

I knew about the terminals but thought it was just for TIGO shutdown.

So if you connect anything to those it will shut down the PV and electricity production?

Do you just reboot after such an event to restore normal usage?

 

[RV10flyer]

I knew about the terminals but thought it was just for TIGO shutdown.

So if you connect anything to those it will shut down the PV and electricity production?

Do you just reboot after such an event to restore normal usage?

Yes. You'll see the alarm, no beeping. Push power button for off on both, then agsin and eveything is back online in a minute or so.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Yes. You'll see the alarm, no beeping. Push power button for off on both, then agsin and eveything is back online in a minute or so.

Cool thanks! Learn something new everyday.

 

[Warpspeed]

Exodus is right, I have never seen one of these horrific Lithium battery fires, and hope I never do.
They are almost impossible to extinguish, and I am told the amount of highly toxic smoke generated is very great indeed.
Unless you have done an advanced firefighting course, its difficult to imagine how scary it can all get.

What I am planning to do, is that my brick garage has a steel side door that I never use. I plan to brick that completely off so that when the door is opened from the outside, I have a kind of very solid brick and concrete cupboard only maybe 500 mm deep.
I can stack all my cells on shelving in there, and it will be completely weatherproof where it is, and readily accessible.
If it ever catches fire, I just open the door and let it burn.
All the toxic smoke and flames will be vented directly outside, and most of the heat should escape pretty harmlessly too (I hope).

If the fire brigade do turn up, they will have pretty good and safe access to the seat of the fire.

 

[SolarHead]

crazy question maybe, but would it be possible to have battery bank located say 75 to 100 feet away from the inverter and breaker boxes? I dont know what size/gauge of wire would be needed, or if its a decent or bad idea. In my case, my inverter, panel boxes, and batteries are in my basement. It'd be neat if I had the option to think about, get a price on doing, to see if I could build a safe room kind of like Warpspeed did, or even a shed in the yard 50 feet from the house that is just for the battery bank and run wires underground to the inverter in the home. Is that even possible? Good idea? terrible idea? expensive idea?