Help me Install 3 EG4 Mini Split Solar Heat Pumps

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Indeed!! Thx Gary. That works
As you suggested, I did use different times 1 minute apart for the action.

 

[MrM1]

Indeed!! Thx Gary. That works
As you suggested, I did use different times 1 minute apart for the action.

Nice

I tried a test this morning to try to and turn 2 unit on when the outdoor temperature hits 76, and I said a bunch of parameters,
- turn on at 79f,
- set the units to 73,
- cool,
- AC limit,
-fan speed low.

It got to 81° but the units never came on

 

[MrM1]

By the way if you don't want to give the Chinese app your location, you can always use "select on a map" , and choose the location of someone you don't like.

 

[MrM1]

I have nine conditions for two different units in my "if the temperature gets to 79°" statement. But I think I just figured out why it didn't work.

I had it set to equal to, you can also set it to greater than or less than. So I'm going to try less than is the temperature starts to fall again

 

[MrM1]

Well I just confirmed it works with a single time command, and it turned two units on. So it appears it will work with 1 IF condition and 2 THEN conditions. At least for time, I don't have the patience to sit around and wait for the temperature to drop

 

[MrM1]

But, I just had it performed this group of three no problem. So maybe it's intermittent with the on command. Like you should set "NO" first and then leave a minute and then set multiple commands

 

[MrM1]

Here is what I have seen and tested so far. Still do not have anything solid set up, but there are a lot of possibilities

The Scenes control does seem to work though. Did they App Developer just add this, or did I just miss it in the App?

Anyway ...

CONDITION Statements
OutSide Temp
- I have gotten it to turn on (still reliability testing) IF you use Greater Than or Less than
- Seems if you use "= to" what Might happen is the outside temp changes quickly and the reporting site jumps from say 73 to 76 in reporting
- This would cause a = to 75 trigger to be missed
- I have gotten this condition to work with several different THEN statements included in 1

When Device Changes
- I have used this to set up ALL the OTHER desired Parameters AFTER the Device Switches on
- Works (still reliability testing) even with several THEN statements are included in 1
- So if the Unit is switched On for whatever reason (Scene OR Manually) it then meets all the Other THEN statements
- And this "When Device Changes" condition executes if the Condition is "Device Turns On"
- Useful if say it is proven that Scenes cannot reliability do ON and several other statements in 1
- BUT ... Ever notice how when you use the REMOTE to turn the unit on ... It Defaults to the last setting on the REMOTE?
- This is a pain if you mostly use the app
- BUT you could use this SCENE to set up your Most Likely Conditions and when switching the unit on via the remote, it will "default" to these settings
- This happened to us in the middle of the night once. Wife used the remote to turn the unit on, but made no other changes. Within an hour we were burning up

Tap-To-Run
- I am still testing this condition, but seems to be a good way to have multiple common changes rolled into one tap
- A Scene Named "Cool to 75" could be a 1 Tap Control to: Turn the Unit on / Set to Cool Mode / Temp to 75 / Fan to Hi / Lovers to Swing / AC Limiter On ... Etc

Schedule
- This is essentially an Advanced Timer that allows you to change All the units settings on a schedule
- Still testing if this has to happen in a minute by minute multiple settings change
- OR if it can have multiple changes in 1
- Worse case in my testing so far seems to be, you'd need to set 1 scene to get the unit on ... Then a 2nd scene with the rest of you settings
- BUT you can also use "When Device Changes" for the rest of the settings ... So this is kinda of a word of caution if you already use a "When Device Changes" scene for a Typical Setting Scene. It might mess up a Scheduled All in one scene.

See what I mean ??

One thing I am seeing so far in testing the App is that TEMP settings default to Even numbers. A setting of 73 would set to 74 in cool mode. But I do not yet know if this is reversed in Heat mode. Say 73 setting to 72 in heat. Or maybe I am just losing it .... YMMV

 

[MrM1]

I just Got TAP-to-RUN to Execute 8 commands in 1 Tap
- Switch on
- Temp to 70
- Mode Auto
- Light On
- Fans Speed Auto
- Horizontal On
- Vertical On
- AC Limiter Off

So there is that

 

[MrM1]

Hey @SmitHVAC Did you know this Scene Stuff in the App ?

 

[MrM1]

Okay so today's test. I created one scene to turn one unit on at 81° f. Then I created a second scene to be triggered when the unit came on to set eight different parameters.

The scene that triggered the unit on was set to greater than 80°, and it worked and the unit came on at 81. But the eight other statements set to trigger when the unit came on, they did not fire.

So I am now testing a single scene with a trigger for the unit to come on greater than 82° with seven other conditions to see if that one fires all the conditions in one scene

 

[MrM1]

Here is another interesting feature, when you create a tap-to-run command , it creates a button above your installed air conditioners on the home screen of the app

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

The Scenes control does seem to work though. Did they App Developer just add this, or did I just miss it in the App?

I think it's always been there. It never occurred to ME, that it would work in an essentially independent fashion outside the Solar Air Conditioner app, to send commands to the A/C. Darn glad you questioned this.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

This happened to us in the middle of the night once. Wife used the remote to turn the unit on, but made no other changes. Within an hour we were burning up

Indeed. That's my problem, plus the degrees F to degrees C change everytime you switch control from remote to App on 12k BTU units (how come only i seem to have THAT problem...?). I control them habitually with the App, while wife and son use remotes.

I had a remote switch it from Heat to Cool (in Winter, lol) based on the last-remote-setting behavior you mention.

 

[MrM1]

So after a few weeks testing of the Scenes Control in the App ...

Pros
Scenes do seem to work and give you great flexibility

Cons
I am having hit-and-miss success with a scene "firing" on cue.
- maybe it is having too many commands in the scene
- but more likely ... it is my 2.4g LAN wifi router that has been acting up lately

Either way. It seems Scenes "Could be" a powerful Automation Tool

 

[MrM1]

That being Said ... I have found Tap-to-Run (Found next to the Automation Tab under Scenes) to be EXTREMELY useful for Automation.

You can ...
- set up multiple commands controlled by a single "button" press
- The App shows you as each command executes after you press the "button" (so you can see if 1 command failed)
- This allows you to pre-program your most used features all in one button press

As an Example ... I use it in the bedroom unit every night to set the unit to the commands we like for winter time sleeping
- On
- Heat
- 64F (Which keeps the room at 69.7F LoL)
- Fan Low
- Vertical Swing On
- Light Off
- AC Limiter On

In the past I was having to Manually set each of those. With Tap-to-Run, it is programed into one button press. The possibilities are endless. Very useful and Reliable Tool in the App.

 

[Newbie101!]

DIY Tools you'll Need:

XtremePower 3.5 CFM Pump and Gauge Set
- I used this but sent it back because the Gauges were pretty crappy and the pump did not seem strong enough ... but the A/Cs has worked perfectly for 3 months so I must have done it right.

I Replaced the Gauges with ...
Master Cool 59161 gauges
- Excellent for the DIY'er
- Made in USA
- I have since used these gauges to service 2 other A/C units for friends

And when I need a pump, I will most likely get ...
VIVOHOME 1/2 HP 5 CFM
- Yes the combo is less, but I think you are getting better product with these 2

Pump Oil

I got This Reamer for the Copper Pipe, but I think the "Typical" Style Reamer might be better. But this worked fine for all sizes

Wostore Eccentric Flaring Tool Kit
- This is an excellent tool and worked perfectly EVERY TIME
- Make sure you put a drop of Nylog Blue on the cone of the tool for each flare
- Makes a very clean and perfectly shaped flare

Nylog Blue
- This is a MUST
- Put a drop on the Flare tool Cone before each flare
- and then a drop on the back of the flare between the nut and flare
- and a drop or 2 on the fitting
- Make sure you "smear" it in and around the surfaces
- This is a MUST to prevent leaks

Ridgid Pip Cutter
- You might want the larger one with the spring
- But this is a great Little Cutter

Vacuum Port Adapter
- These are the one's for 410a and the EG4 units
- Your size needed may vary

Extra PVC Wrap
- If you run out, or need more, or what came with the EG4 does not match your house color

Good Tape to Start and End the PVC wrap
- I used this tape to start and then overlapped so you did not see the tape
- Then at the end, I taped it and the taped end is up in the Line Set Covers

Various Size Air Conditioning Copper Pipe Extension
- If you need to run the line set further than what you have
- I used these and worked perfectly
- You can get copper at a home center or AC supply house
- But if you have multiple units, Install the shortest run first, and save all the copper for the longer runs
- This is what I did and worked out so I did not have to buy extra copper

Mai i know if you have a link to the wall bracket on your 24k unit? Thanks.

 

[ginmtb]

If the array for this unit were to be installed on a house then what would be the best way to install rapid shutdown when there is no inverter? I have a 12k btu unit on the way. I'm debating on having the array ground mounted or on the roof. The roof would be idea, but I'm not entirely sure about the rapid shut down requirements.

I'm curious how the answer to this plays out

Did this ever get sorted out? I have this setup (separate off-grid panels dedicated to mini-split, no inverter) but my 24K unit isn't receiving any solar per the app. I have 6x380w Silfab panels and Tigo TS4-A-O optimizers and CCA - these are wired directly to my exterior unit. I checked and I got 218.5V at the MC4 connectors that feed the EG4, so it seems like it is getting plenty of voltage. I also have it setup for grid power which is working perfectly fine. Tigo told me everything looks good from their side too. I have a message into Signature Solar to see if they have any troubleshooting tips. Could I have an MPPT issue?

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

but my 24K unit isn't receiving any solar per the app

How new is your instl?? i.e. "installed yesterday " or you've run it enough that your startup could not have, by chance, run across the "low solar" timeouts???

Otherwise, perhaps you DO have the "bad MPPT" problem you mention / @MrM1 encountered. Sounds like you've got DC power checked OK, I assume as you say you'd have an indication if after connection something was shutting it off on the TIGO side.

The TIGO stuff does look super cool for module-level RSD. Something external would still have to trigger it for DC arc fault though right?? I am sure expecting any next-gen EG4/DEYE Solar A/C to include AFCI / GFCI UL1699...

 

[ginmtb]

How new is your instl?? i.e. "installed yesterday " or you've run it enough that your startup could not have, by chance, run across the "low solar" timeouts???

Otherwise, perhaps you DO have the "bad MPPT" problem you mention / @MrM1 encountered. Sounds like you've got DC power checked OK, I assume as you say you'd have an indication if after connection something was shutting it off on the TIGO side.

The TIGO stuff does look super cool for module-level RSD. Something external would still have to trigger it for DC arc fault though right?? I am sure expecting any next-gen EG4/DEYE Solar A/C to include AFCI / GFCI UL1699...

Thank you for the reply! I just had gotten the panels installed on Easter Sunday due to rainy weather this past month. My mini-split got installed earlier in March.

I did try it when it was cloudy, but then also shut down the system and waited until it was full sun. How long is the timeout? I see here the OP talked about setting the schedule for turning on every hour to deal with the timeouts. Maybe I didn’t wait long enough? I thought though these things are always looking for solar input - I know I had the heat function running for much of the day so seems like if it were functioning properly the solar would kick in. Or does it have to be powered down and restarted?



Here is my installation btw. The upper panels are my grid tied system (I snuck in and just made NEM2 so can’t add anymore panels to that system - well I did add two panels but that was well under 1kw allowable).

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Basically as long as unit is on and not displaying LP, should be seeking Solar per the schedule on 3) of this post attached. MrM1 had the only well documented MPPT problem (so it obviously can happen), there has been 2 to 3 other guys saying they had some cloud troubles but never posted any setup pics or stuff to try to help them - one guy did add panels and was good then.

I think most cloud "problems " are having to do with arrays on the low end of the suggested power requirements - you seem fine

My 12k unit was still running while it was SNOWING, much less cloudy ️

Thanks for pics, looking good DC in EMT on stucco / Clay tile seems pretty safe

Post in thread 'Help me Install 3 EG4 Mini Split Solar Heat Pumps' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/h...mini-split-solar-heat-pumps.62338/post-803403

 

[ginmtb]

Basically as long as unit is on and not displaying LP, should be seeking Solar per the schedule on 3) of this post attached. MrM1 had the only well documented MPPT problem (so it obviously can happen), there has been 2 to 3 other guys saying they had some cloud troubles but never posted any setup pics or stuff to try to help them - one guy did add panels and was good then.

I think most cloud "problems " are having to do with arrays on the low end of the suggested power requirements - you seem fine

My 12k unit was still running while it was SNOWING, much less cloudy ️

Thanks for pics, looking good DC in EMT on stucco / Clay tile seems pretty safe

Post in thread 'Help me Install 3 EG4 Mini Split Solar Heat Pumps' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/h...mini-split-solar-heat-pumps.62338/post-803403

Thank you again! In the million pages on this amazing thread I missed that lol. I will give it a shot on a full sunny day as I’m sure I tried it in succession with not enough time in between power downs.

3.If the solar is not good, for example morning time or cloudy days, the unit will try 3 times to start itself, 1st time 15 minutes after the unit off, 2nd time 45 minutes later, 3rd time 1 hour later, if both 3 times start itself failed within this 2 hours, then it will not try again, and will show LP(Low Power) on display. It is set to protect the air conditioner system from cloudy and rainy days, and will protect the compressor

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Yeah there's a lot to unpack in this thread nowadays for new people.

Let's consider starting up with AC and DC "sunny day" for convenience.

Initially (picture) you should see the temp, Wifi if connected, and AC plug icon (blue or white, blue = AC Limiter on). Within 10 seconds or so, you should see the green array icon for DC/Solar.

Concurrently, in the Solar Aircon app, you should see an initial run up of AC watts (seems to mostly spin up compressor initially with AC watts, probably for Solar brown out reasons), and then within a few seconds see the PV wattage come up as the MPPT seeks what's available.

Next time you start, look for the green array or any PV wattage showing in the app. If NO, you may have a problem. Sorry for your troubles in any case

 

[ginmtb]

Well it is trying it appears - 17W!!! But something is still off since the solar doesn’t go higher. No green symbol on the inside unit. I’ve also shared the production of my grid tied system just to show it is producing nicely.

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Not good. In fact, I think I remembered MrM1 said his questionable unit ran fine off of Solar, as long as it was connected to AC power and didn't conk out (as ive said, it should never quit under mid day clouds in the first place with a good array...) then restart under clouds. So, this seems like a new problem variation.

If you have extra panels you might throw a test array on the ground?? Otherwise let us know what SS says since they sell Tigo and the Solar A/C. At least you could run on AC power till they sent a new outdoor unit or whatever.

Might be good you have the DIY lines. My neighbor got a bad outdoor unit with a Mr Cool DIY 12k (The control board PCB was MISSING...Employee shrinkage ? ). They sent him a new one and said to just click-click exchange the existing lines onto the new unit and he was good to go then. Not sure if our HVAC guys will fully sanction that??

 

[Plum Crazy Rob]

Hey I also remembered, somebody on YouTube or a comment there said they found the MC4 input goes to a spade connector or such and they found it pulled off internally?? The 17W could be a false reading while the MPPT seeks or such.