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Help with Understanding BMS amps

I was highly questioning how i would even hook up a bms to 4/0 cable.

Most systems max draw is determined by the inverter.
the formula is
inverter continuous ac watts / .85 conversion factor / system low voltage cutoff = max dc amps
if you have significant pure dc loads they should also be added to max dc amps.
 
Most systems max draw is determined by the inverter.
the formula is
inverter continuous ac watts / .85 conversion factor / system low voltage cutoff = max dc amps
if you have significant pure dc loads they should also be added to max dc amps.

Im wanting to use it with stuff im doing here. Running welders, plasma torches, air condtioners, lights. Multiple things at once.

Im planning on stacking inverters. Get a couple Solark 12k or 4-5 of those chinese made units. Those are 5000 watt units and stackable so i need 4 to get to 20,000 watts
 
Im wanting to use it with stuff im doing here. Running welders, plasma torches, air condtioners, lights. Multiple things at once.

Im planning on stacking inverters. Get a couple Solark 12k or 4-5 of those chinese made units. Those are 5000 watt units and stackable so i need 4 to get to 20,000 watts

20000 watts / .8 conversion efficiency / 48 volts = 520.833333333 dc amps

Thats outside the pareto envelope.
I think you said you would have three strings.
thats 173.611111111 amps per string.
260.416666667 amps if a string goes offline under load.
I would say that rules out a fet based bms(s) in the high current path.
You could use a bms and a contacter.
or a bms that can turn your inverters on/off via a signal wire.
 
20000 watts / .8 conversion efficiency / 48 volts = 520.833333333 dc amps

Thats outside the pareto envelope.
I think you said you would have three strings.
thats 173.611111111 amps per string.
260.416666667 amps if a string goes offline under load.
I would say that rules out a fet based bms(s) in the high current path.
You could use a bms and a contacter.
or a bms that can turn your inverters on/off via a signal wire.


Is their a link to such a bms?
 
You can use a daly or pretty much any commodity bms with a contacter https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888385718.html
Someone else will have to recommend the contacter
@Airtime should know a bms that can do signalling.
Any BMS that can control a contactor can control an inverter. Some interfacing might be required depending on polarity etc on inverter remote control. Whether the inverter can be remote controlled is the question. If you are willing to hack things then you have more options, you can for example interface a mechanical power switch in an inverter with a small relay, for example. But if a momentary power switch then more difficult.

If you don't want to take that on and just want a turnkey option then I know that at least the Victron inverters can be remote controlled. Their Multiplus inverter/chargers as well, with independent remote control of charging and discharging, only one on the market as far as I know. They will also pump some serious surge power, and they specify it. Of course they are not cheap.

On cheap inverters, since you have been off-grid for a long time I'm sure you know all about inverters but just in case... 5k inverters are not all alike. 5k peak current may be only for milliseconds and much much less for continuous duty.
 
On cheap inverters, since you have been off-grid for a long time I'm sure you know all about inverters but just in case... 5k inverters are not all alike.

I'm on grid, my setup is UPS.
 
Ah ok so just use a commodity BMS and use the fets for out of band signalling?
Not quite sure what you mean by out of band signaling (makes me think of RF), I assume from context you mean BMS not in high current path but instead signaling to external devices? Some BMSs use communication bus with messaging for signaling to devices. I'm not referring to that, just a simple on/off remote control. Can be a small relay or optoisolator closing or an on/off signal of right polarity, depends on what the device to be controlled requires and interface to that. I haven't looked much at the commodity BMSs but if it can control a contactor for disconnect then it can control an inverter on/off switch. Much better than regularly switching 500A with a big relay, not to mention pre-charge issues for the inverter caps!!
 
Not quite sure what you mean by out of band signaling (makes me think of RF), I assume from context you mean BMS not in high current path but instead signaling to external devices?

My bad, yes that is what I mean.
 
Sorry I meant that for @Bleedingblue who was asking about the BMS and talking about the 5kW stackable chinese inverters

Ya the Aims inverter Im using now is a 10k with a 30k peak. Been looking at either a SolArk 12k maybe 2 of em but the $ though :( or several of the Revo II and stacking em.
 
How will a single 16s bms control 48 cells? Or do i have to buy 3 of those BMS and have all 3 running indivudually all having a relay and then all 3 going to the switch in the inverter?

The simplest thing to do is make sets of 3 cells in parralel and then connect those sets in series.
To the BMS it looks like very large cells.
 
The simplest thing to do is make sets of 3 cells in parralel and then connect those sets in series.
To the BMS it looks like very large cells.


Ok so if i hook 3 in parallel to make it an 840 AH cell those 3 will all be equally charged and discharged?



Ive seen orion and watchmon 4 bms being tossed around. Which one or are those more than what i need
 
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Here is the SolArk 12k.
Vs
The Revo II
48 Cells. = 3X 16S Packs for 48VDC, each with BMS & 250A Fuse, linked in Parallel to make a full 48V BANK

If BMS' are Matched for settings AND cabling is done properly for the Parallel DC BUS, the packs will Load & Charge Share fairly equally.
You should probably use 250A BMS for each pack to support 12,000W/250A @ 48VDC.

The "trick" with multiple BMS' is there needs to be some sort of "intermediary" between the battery bank & the packs within it and the Inverter/Charger & SCC. One pack "may" hit a cut-off threshold while the others do not, would you have the whole system shutdown, or just disconnect the one cut-off pack ? Also if Charging, when one pack hit's full before the others, do you want to have it shutdown charging for the rest ? Ultimately, the Inverter/Charger acts independently and should cut-off the battery bank on Low Volt / Over Volt conditions PRIOR to the BMS forcing it by reading the system status. Temperature is another cut-off reason to handle as well... LFP can't be charged below 0C/32F and needs to be managed when hot and cut-off if too hot (not common in residential application).

Depending on HOW INVOLVED you want to be with your system and much you want to interact with the system will sort of direct you on choices for a BMS. The Inverter/Charger or All-In-One Combo's can handle many things differently and so trying to get everything to "play nice" and do what you need & want can be frustrating.

NOTE OF CAUTION !
There are many kinds of BMS' out there and using various technologies to accomplish their tasks. There are Use Case Specific ones, such as for an EV Car (not cheap & very complex) to light EV's like E-Bikes & ATV / Golf carts and then Energy Storage Ones. Some can be used in multiple use cases and are very flexible while others are not. When dealing with High Amperage meaning anything over 100A DC things start to get limited. There are FET Based 250A BMS' but at 250A your pushing the limits of that tech. Not because it is impossible but it is more impractical due to size, heat dissipation and other requirements. Quite often on High Amperage systems relays & contactors are used as they are more reliable & efficient and also add a layer of safety protection to the system as well in case of failure. Of course such systems add a bit more complexity & cost as well.

There are DECENTRALIZED BMS' which can handle large battery banks with many cells all in one shot BUT you need "DEEP" pockets to get into that sort of game as well. It is all relevant though, as the investment in the battery packs is generally not cheap (48 cells = not coffee money) and so protecting that investment is up to the individual building their system.

Last Consideration.
KISS rules applied always work out best in the long run. Keeping it Simple & Manageable will save you time, money & prevent stress (something we all have too much of anyways). Many use a Mid Level Smart BMS System and run the packs as independent batteries within the bank. Meaning that each "packs" BMS is responsible to manage the pack only. The Inverters etc are all set to cutoff before the BMS threshold, preventing the BMS from forcing things.

To properly wire your bank to get the most out of it I recommend thoroughly reading through this document by Victron:
 
Ok so if i hook 3 in parallel to make it an 840 AH cell those 3 will all be equally charged and discharged?

The cells in parallel naturally balance each other.
Winston makes 1000ah cells and folks make batteries out of them using a bms that can only balance at 30mv so you it should be "ok"

Ive seen orion and watchmon 4 bms being tossed around. Which one or are those more than what i need

Hold the phone I have another idea.
Need to get a cup of coffee and write it up.
 
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