How long can you (and your family) survive if the grid went down for an extended period?

[Supervstech]

We have Nutria here ... also a large rodent. Invasive, brought over from South America for fur. Released into the wild when the fur trade crashed. They weigh up to 20 or so pounds, burrow into levees and eat almost any plant including the roots.

We had a campaign many years ago to get rid of them by eating them. People didn't like the idea they were eating a rat. I think there is a bounty on them and you can get paid for each one you kill.

"So you saying this is a rat Burger? Hmm, tastes pretty good"
-John Spartan

 

[Q-Dog]

"So you saying this is a rat Burger? Hmm, tastes pretty good"
-John Spartan

A bunch of chefs were challenged to come up with recipes for it. I ate some in chili once. It was fine. As far as I know there is no commercially available supply so if you want it you have to kill and clean it yourself.

 

[fatjay]

2 weeks no power, no problem. Diesel generator sips fuel from a 500 gallon tank. Well pump does it's job, supplying with water. I'm on public sewer, but I'm on top of a mountain, so until the pipes fill up, it's not a problem for me, and it would be a problem for a lot of people before it was for me. Wood stove provides plenty of heat in the winter, with diesel as a backup. Wood stove doubles as a 2 burner stove for cooking, as well.

I suspect I could go for about 8-12 months before I started to worry about running out of meat. I grow most of my other food. I could go out with my remote hole puncher and get some deer if needed. I wouldn't have to go far, they're in my yard all the time. a 24cu ft freezer has easily a year's worth of food and that's on a battery that is charged by solar.

I'm remote enough that I don't have to worry about feral protesters. If I have to worry about roaming gangs, the cities are already burned to the ground.

 

[billvon]

Share your experience with blackouts and your backup systems you have in place or want to get and maybe it will help other people.

My bizarre system, born out of laziness:

Main panel feeds heavy loads and two grid tie inverters. Both are low frequency Fronius, both loud, both old. They service about 10KW of solar.
An Outback GVFX3648 powers a critical load panel with a manual transfer switch.
There's a 9kwhr LFP bank made with CALB cells for the backup system. There's no way to charge them via solar, other than via a 130 watt panel that just keeps the 9kwhr bank from discharging too much. During a blackout I have to throw the switch and then we can run off the 9kwhr battery bank. I've only needed it twice in 12 years.

The second system is a DR system. A 10kwhr battery drives two cheap Chinese grid tie inverters connected to a 240V outlet. When it gets the signal from the DR aggregator (OhmConnect) it turns on and discharges into the grid at a rate of about 3KW. Another 130 watt panel charges that bank slowly. I can also charge from the grid during the summer when we get DR alerts every day.

The third system is a 20kwhr EG4 system. Right now it's just getting charged by yet another 130 watt panel.

Eventually I will replace the ancient grid ties with an AIO inverter (either a Sol-Ark 12K or the newer Midnite one) and get real backup using the EG4's. But for now, the manual system works OK with our very reliable grid.

 

[Hedges]

We have Nutria here ... also a large rodent. Invasive, brought over from South America for fur. Released into the wild when the fur trade crashed. They weigh up to 20 or so pounds, burrow into levees and eat almost any plant including the roots.

We had a campaign many years ago to get rid of them by eating them. People didn't like the idea they were eating a rat. I think there is a bounty on them and you can get paid for each one you kill.

How do they compare to cattle in terms of global warming potential?

I figure your rodents and invasive carp ought to be the only meat eligible for purchase with food stamps (SNAP).
Creates a market to promote depredation, reduces the cost of more desirable meat for us useless workers, provides incentive for the lazy to get off their duff.

 

[Q-Dog]

How do they compare to cattle in terms of global warming potential?

I figure your rodents and invasive carp ought to be the only meat eligible for purchase with food stamps (SNAP).
Creates a market to promote depredation, reduces the cost of more desirable meat for us useless workers, provides incentive for the lazy to get off their duff.

I don't know about global warming potential, but they contribute to coastal erosion and land loss, levee failure and flooding. If the market for them hasn't developed in the last 30 years it never will. And this is in an area where people will eat almost anything as long as it walks, crawls, swims or flies.

Someone here tried to make a business of turning nutria into dog treats. I don't know if that is still going.

The bounty program seems to work, but it seems they are more prolific than rabbits.

 

[Hedges]

Dog food?
The question would be whether they can be had for fewer $$/lb. than horses.

Government pays people to adopt wild horses. So ranchers did the math, decided that instead of raising cattle to sell, better to be paid to let a horse graze for a year, then as soon as they receive clear title, auction it off to slaughterhouses. Our tax dollars at work.

Bounty program? As in government pays money for them?
(Somebody will probably start a breeding program.)

In California there is a problem with invasive hybrid boars. Open season all year round, although of course fish & game still charges you for the right to fight the problem (not quite your "bounty", huh?)

But some sportsmen's organization opposes loosening the rules too much, afraid the available game would be diminished.
What was the objective supposed to be, again?

Still, if the grid goes down for an extended time, everything that walks, flies, swims, or slithers will quickly be taken. Our over-populated nation and planet depend on intensive agriculture/ranching. Which brings us back to 2 legged critters, hope you can get used to the taste.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Dog food?
The question would be whether they can be had for fewer $$/lb. than horses.

Government pays people to adopt wild horses. So ranchers did the math, decided that instead of raising cattle to sell, better to be paid to let a horse graze for a year, then as soon as they receive clear title, auction it off to slaughterhouses. Our tax dollars at work.

Bounty program? As in government pays money for them?
(Somebody will probably start a breeding program.)

In California there is a problem with invasive hybrid boars. Open season all year round, although of course fish & game still charges you for the right to fight the problem (not quite your "bounty", huh?)

But some sportsmen's organization opposes loosening the rules too much, afraid the available game would be diminished.
What was the objective supposed to be, again?

Still, if the grid goes down for an extended time, everything that walks, flies, swims, or slithers will quickly be taken. Our over-populated nation and planet depend on intensive agriculture/ranching. Which brings us back to 2 legged critters, hope you can get used to the taste.

no Donner family action for me... I am willing to remove them from the DNA pool but that's as far as it goes.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I bet they would be pretty tasty after a nice brine, rub and long smoke session.

Probably would taste good if I could get it past my mind.
The smoking part; though I suppose it could help with my appetite I don’t do cannabis myself. I don’t need any drugs or alcohol to act like this.

 

[OffGridForGood]

First time I saw an Arctic Hare - I thought it was a kid in a costume !
so I asked a local Inuit hunter - "I see the local rabbits are huge, do you eat them?"
he says, "well, I guess if you're hungry enough ya could !!"

 

[42OhmsPA]

Probably would taste good if I could get it past my mind.
The smoking part; though I suppose it could help with my appetite I don’t do cannabis myself. I don’t need any drugs or alcohol to act like this.

I meant cooking in a smoker like a masterbuilt electric but I'm sure smoked meat after a smoke session would be exceptional.

 

[OffGridForGood]

I'm sure smoked meat after a smoke session would be exceptional.

at about 4:20...in PA

 

[42OhmsPA]

at about 4:20...in PA

Using solar from the setting sun to power the smoker before the batteries take over.

 

[OffGridForGood]

While listening to the Beatles...Lucy in the sky with diamonds...

 

[Hedges]

Spill the wine ...

 

[12VoltInstalls]

if the grid goes down for an extended time, everything that walks, flies, swims, or slithers will quickly be taken

This is where prepping meets practical.

If we actually have a catastrophic interruption of life as we know it I don’t think 95% of people have worked it out in their heads what that would look like and what it would mean.
Shortwave non-repeater for perspective, news, and planning and possibly cb or vhf for “local work” is going to be mostly absent in planning for most people, but lack of information is going to make those uninformed segments come up with all sorts of dangerous panicking responses and bad decisions.

 

[OffGridForGood]

The success of society is co-operation,
without it, a few winters will be all it takes to up-end nearly everything.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The success of society is co-operation,
without it, a few winters will be all it takes to up-end nearly everything.

I would honestly say one winter would take out 90% of the current crop of humans in most 1st world countries. 3rd world countries are actually better situated to survive.

 

[Brett V]

I would honestly say one winter would take out 90% of the current crop of humans in most 1st world countries. 3rd world countries are actually better situated to survive.

There's a sizable Amish community in my area. Guess I should start working on my beard.

 

[sparrowhawk]

2 weeks no power, no problem. Diesel generator sips fuel from a 500 gallon tank. Well pump does it's job, supplying with water. I'm on public sewer, but I'm on top of a mountain, so until the pipes fill up, it's not a problem for me, and it would be a problem for a lot of people before it was for me. Wood stove provides plenty of heat in the winter, with diesel as a backup. Wood stove doubles as a 2 burner stove for cooking, as well.

I suspect I could go for about 8-12 months before I started to worry about running out of meat. I grow most of my other food. I could go out with my remote hole puncher and get some deer if needed. I wouldn't have to go far, they're in my yard all the time. a 24cu ft freezer has easily a year's worth of food and that's on a battery that is charged by solar.

I'm remote enough that I don't have to worry about feral protesters. If I have to worry about roaming gangs, the cities are already burned to the ground.

Yea no your pipes would never fill up, BUT your neighbors at the bottom of the mountain will have their houses filled up with excrement from everybody living above them. That shit rolling down hill will find the path of least resistance and that will usually be someone else's toilets and drains.

 

[Hedges]

Endless supply of methane and fertilizer.

I would honestly say one winter would take out 90% of the current crop of humans in most 1st world countries. 3rd world countries are actually better situated to survive.

Those wouldn't be the ones who couldn't afford tortillas because we put corn ethanol in our tank, would it?

(maybe those are 2nd world?)

 

[OffGridForGood]

Yea no your pipes would never fill up, BUT your neighbors at the bottom of the mountain will have their houses filled up with excrement from everybody living above them. That shit rolling down hill will find the path of least resistance and that will usually be someone else's toilets and drains.

When the pumping stations stop, the manholes will fill and plug with solids. pipes will stop flowing. It will be a horrible mess down hill for sure.
Septic field is more reliable.

 

[Danke]

Which brings us back to 2 legged critters, hope you can get used to the taste.

Tastes like pork with a consistency of beef, just don’t eat the brains or the lungs. And believe it or not, black meat is the best. So I’ve read…

What Does Human Meat Taste Like? Here's What Cannibals Have Said

Anecdotal accounts from cannibals suggest human meat tastes like veal or pork, or that it has the texture of beef, but softer and sweeter.

allthatsinteresting.com

 

[12VoltInstalls]

The success of a few winters will be all it takes to up-end nearly everything.

Do you think it will take that long to restabilize?

I think by the harvest preceding the second winter whatever hasn’t worked itself out will do so quickly.

In the USA our society has degraded so much that any historic ‘respect’ and negotiation of pirates, or the coexistence structure/territory embodied by pre-1980’s mafia won’t exist which should self-solve a lot of issues by the end of the first month of the second winter.

Realistically, however, I do not believe that scenario to be a probability. The only plausible deconstructing event I can imagine that would completely shut down society for the period of time required to affect the dissolution of governmental/constitutional structures will only shortly follow a nuclear event: and if any combative nuclear event were to occur it won’t be an isolated event. There will be hundreds upon hundreds of cities/urban centers worldwide annihilated and unlivable for decades.

What’s possible versus what’s probable are strategically antithetical.

 

[sumpower]

Dog food?
The question would be whether they can be had for fewer $$/lb. than horses.

Government pays people to adopt wild horses. So ranchers did the math, decided that instead of raising cattle to sell, better to be paid to let a horse graze for a year, then as soon as they receive clear title, auction it off to slaughterhouses. Our tax dollars at work.

Bounty program? As in government pays money for them?
(Somebody will probably start a breeding program.)

In California there is a problem with invasive hybrid boars. Open season all year round, although of course fish & game still charges you for the right to fight the problem (not quite your "bounty", huh?)

But some sportsmen's organization opposes loosening the rules too much, afraid the available game would be diminished.
What was the objective supposed to be, again?

Still, if the grid goes down for an extended time, everything that walks, flies, swims, or slithers will quickly be taken. Our over-populated nation and planet depend on intensive agriculture/ranching. Which brings us back to 2 legged critters, hope you can get used to the taste.

I just watch the movie, "Fried Green Tomatoes". The barbequed two legged critter seemed to taste fine to them!