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how to modify a car alternator for 48v charging

Theoretically, it would be possible to get about 36V. If you put rectifier to every phase (capacitor too) and conected dc output of every phase in series. You would need to isolate every phase (disconect original delta or star configuration) but from every phase you would get about 12V so in series it would be 36V plus some kind of buck boost to get that 48V. Only problem would be 12V rotor but you could use output of one phase or another alterantor or add maganets to rotor.
 
If you take the 160 Amp alternators for Yukon of Escalade and remove the diodes and regulator and manually change the field you can get them to put out 58V at around 80 amps...

The Ford Large Case 1G alternators work too but they make a lot of fan noise...
 
does anyone no if you can modify a car alternator to charge a 48 vdc battery bank
Since 48 or 24V seems optional to you, how big is the boat? And what requires a 48V battery?

I’m just curious regarding the need for 48V if merely a second alternator at 24VDC (or 120VDC with a charger) would function fine. Plus 24- or 48V is not required in many circumstances
 
Since 48 or 24V seems optional to you, how big is the boat? And what requires a 48V battery?

I’m just curious regarding the need for 48V if merely a second alternator at 24VDC (or 120VDC with a charger) would function fine. Plus 24- or 48V is not required in many circumstances
Those are my thoughts, too...
you increase the voltage to limit line loss when you're running cable.
If you had short, thick cables from the alternator/batteries to the inverter, a 12vdc system would work. And those alternators are available all over the place...
Heck, even 24v alternators are common enough for aircraft and marine duty. (even HGVs in Europe)
 
Winding of alternator are of a particular gauge, so current is limited by resistive heating.
I think 24V or 48V operation can be a way to get more watts out of it.
I used to see gadgets advertised to disconnect regulator and get 120V for power tools.
At some point, magnetic core may be the limit.
 
I keep looking at this, need something to control the field current of the alternator based on the charging characteristics of the battery.



Possibly use a 48vdc secondary alternator and a wind/hydro charge controller? I suspect their MPPT will not work correctly with an engine running the alternator.

Use a generator head with a separate inexpensive charging inverter that allows great flexibility in frequency/voltage?
 
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so if i get this right you are saying use a 12v mpp inverter powered by engine alternator to feed 220vac to a second larger 48v mpp inverter to actually
feed power to the ac panel in the boat?
I've already done this for my truck camper last year, I installed dual alternators for 355A of 12V charging. I also installed a master switch under the hood and a precharge circuit. I ran 2/0 cable under the body to the rear of the cab, I have a 12V Giandel 2400W inverter installed there, back seat has been removed and I have a platform with a CFX95 freezer/fridge there. Next, I ran an RV cord back thru the floor to the rear bumper of the truck and installed a 30A RV receptacle.

I made a short cord with the remaining RV cord and can plug in my Growatt 24V 3000W inverter. I set charging at 60A, 1440 watts. Works well, I've tested it and quite impressed. Some efficiency loss, but I can shove a pile of amps downstream, even run the camper if the Growatt went down.

I should take photos when I get the truck back out and start a thread for it.
 
I think you're better off getting a chargeverter from eg4 and limiting the output to whatever your cheap generator can sustain. It might be able to be done cheaper but you could blow the battery bank too... the cheap does come out expensive sometimes.
 
If you take the 160 Amp alternators for Yukon of Escalade and remove the diodes and regulator and manually change the field you can get them to put out 58V at around 80 amps...

The Ford Large Case 1G alternators work too but they make a lot of fan noise...
An ordinary garden variety 12v vehicle alternator needs to turn at about 2,000 rpm to charge a 12v battery.
The alternator pulley is usually about one third the diameter of the crank pulley, so as long as the engine idles above about 650 rpm the alternator light will go out, and the battery will be charging.

To charge a 48v battery the alternator will need to turn at four times the rpm or around 8,000 rpm which it will very easily do.
When fitted to a typical modern engine that might rev between 650 rpm to 6,500 rpm, the alternator will be whizzing aroud between 2,000 rom and 20,000 rpm which it will do very reliably. So running an alternator continuously at 8,000 rpm to charge a 48v battery is not a big deal.

Mechanically its not an issue, but it will require a 48v voltage regulator that you will probably have to make yourself. The field winding might require about four amps at perhaps 8v to 10v for full max rated output, and that will require a bit of thought.

This all becomes attractive because its relatively cheap to do, especially if you can score a free alternator, and figure out how to turn it at 8,000 rpm plus.

There are alternatives..... Some busses, trucks, and earth moving machinery often come with 24v electrical systems and larger alternators.
If you can find one of those, it should work fine at 48v needing only about 4,000 rpm, and once again a home brew regulator.

Its also possible to use a bog stock 12v alternator, rip out the diodes, and fit a voltage step up transformer to each phase. This will be a lot easier, and a lot more practical than rewinding the alternator itself. Its theoretically possible to run the original alternator at less than 2,000 rpm with suitable transformer ratio, but it will be limited in power output. While there will still be full rated amps availabe, less voltage and less rpm means reduced power. It may still be enough to be useful. It depends what you want to do.

Another totally different approach to charging a higher voltage battery (48v and above) would be to use a treadmill motor.
Here we have the exact opposite problem. A treadmill motor rated to run at 180v and 4,500 rpm and 12 amps can be run at one third the speed, so we then have 60 volts, 12 amps, and 1,500 rpm as a motor.

Used as a generator it will need to be run faster, perhaps at 2,000 rpm, as a guess, to charge at the full 12 amps and reach 60 volts.
That may be more attractive than a vehicle alternator for lighter duty work, and it has the advantage of not needing a field winding.

Many ways to skin a cat.
 
Think the 3 phases of alternator windings, presently wired Delta, could instead be wired zig-zag to produce single phase at double voltage?
 
Think the 3 phases of alternator windings, presently wired Delta, could instead be wired zig-zag to produce single phase at double voltage?
I once disconnected the three separate star windings, connected each winding to its own bridge rectifier, then connceted the dc side of the three rectifiers in series. That gave me exactly double the original dc voltage of the original, and with very low ripple voltage too!

If that was done with a 24v alternator it would be perfect for a 48v battery.
Thanks for reminding me.
 
I think it will work the same if you put rectifiers on output of the zig-zag, rather than on each winding.

What makes it low ripple? I'd expect rectified 3-phase to be reduced ripple. Oh, adding magnitude of projection of vector, rather than vector with it's polarity, may be what did that.

If you had put capacitor in addition to rectifier on each winding, then you should get 3x the voltage. Given sufficient capacitance, of course, to reduce ripple.

I came across zig-zag when looking for ways to make a central neutral from a delta-wound transformer. There are zig-zag transformers for that purpose. Another approach I thought of was center tap transformer across one side of the delta, and transformer with 1:2 turns ratio from that center tap to opposite corner.
 
A six diode three phase bridge rectifier only has around 2% to 3% ripple voltage because the waveforms overlap so much up near the peaks.

This three winding, three bridge rectifier system (twelve diodes total) works in pretty much the same way, and the output waveform looks the same as well, its just at twice the output voltage. I have some photographs of the whole experiment, including oscilloscope traces here on an old hard drive somewhere, but cannot find it right now.

I did find some pictures of my treadmill motor battery charger though. That works very well, ten amps at around 100v dc for my thirty lithium cells.
It did require an e-bay 12v bilge blower to cool the treadmill motor. They are not normally very well ventilated, and become unhappy when run continuously at full rated current.
 

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Think the 3 phases of alternator windings, presently wired Delta, could instead be wired zig-zag to produce single phase at double voltage?
I have been thinking a bit more about that idea.
If the three star windings were connected in series, in zig zag configuration, that should indeed generate twice the ac voltage, but it would only produce a single phase sinusoid across the final two wires. If that was rectified there would be a large ripple component and the average dc would be lower than the ac peaks.

Doing it my way with three bridge rectifiers, its very messy and inefficient, because of the voltage drop produced by always having six conducting diodes in series. But that does become less of a disadvantage at higher voltage.
It does produce nice classic six pulse overlapping rectification, and exactly double the dc output voltage, and with very low ripple content.

This is not just a thought experiment, I have actually built and tested this idea, and it definitely works.

I just used cheap and nasty thirty amp silicon bridges that I already had for convenience, but shottky diodes would be a much more elegant and efficient solution.
 
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Yes, your rectification of each phase individually before summing is clever, and reduces ripple. My zig-zag idea just adds vectors to make a single phase, which crosses zero. Yours, always some positive voltage.

The main weakness of most alternators, I think, is poor heatsinking of positive diodes. They just have a small plate instead of the entire case. External fixes that.
 
It should not be too difficult to find a used low cost 24v alternator, and bring out connections from the three separate windings.
That should be ideal as a second alternator for a 48v battery in a camper.
The alternator could then be run at "normal" rpm without requiring an impractically small alternator pulley to reach 48v.
It also solves the problem of possibly over speeding the alternator during normal driving.
 
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I once disconnected the three separate star windings, connected each winding to its own bridge rectifier, then connceted the dc side of the three rectifiers in series. That gave me exactly double the original dc voltage of the original, and with very low ripple voltage too!

If that was done with a 24v alternator it would be perfect for a 48v battery.
Thanks for reminding me.
That's quite a doable project for DIY.
 

Here is his build video, he has a few more on the task of improving the vibrations and increasing output.
 
I never proceeded to the next logical step of developing or adapting a suitable voltage regulator for this.
If luck holds, we might even be able to use the original 24v regulator that came in the alternator.

Assuming sixteen Lithium cells, and a final charging voltage of probably about 56 volts, each of the three bridge rectifiers will theoretically be putting out an average output of around 18.67v (neglecting diode drops).
The lowest of the three rectifiers that has its negative side grounded, will have a full wave rectified half sinusoid on the positive side of the bridge rectifier, with respect to ground, peaking up to roughly an expected 29.2 volts with an 18.67 average.

That could provide bulk dc power to supply the necessary power of just a few amps to the 24v alternator field winding, which would not be unreasonable for a 24v alternator. The stock original alternator usually has three smaller diodes to provide dc field power.

It then remains to supply a battery reference voltage to the existing electronics in the original 24v voltage regulator, which is very likely set to charge a 24v lead acid battery to probably about 28v. A 2:1 voltage divider of two equal value resistors may be all that is required to drop 56v down to 28v.
These will need to be fairly high resistance value as they will be constantly draining the battery when the alternator is not running.
It may be possible to do something clever with a small relay to solve that problem.

These voltage regulator modifications are all just completely untried ideas, and have not been tested so approach this with that in mind.
I am sure some of you guys can build on this, and come up with some neat and practical solutions.
 

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