How to wire a house with an extension cord guts?
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tomy2
escape artist
ok now I get it. don't use after drinking or while playing catch with your husky!
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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A male cord end, should never be live. Unless it's plugged into a live receptacle. If it is, it's not being used correctly.
stienman
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It's a relatively common phrasing in the generator industry due to the lack of safety. Yes, turning off the main breaker and using an outlet as an inlet works, but you CANNOT get a UL certified cable for that purpose.
Imagine, for instance, someone using one during a power outage, and one of their family needing an extra outlet, unplugging the suicide cord, and getting shocked or starting a fire.
Just use a transfer switch. If you can't be bothered to do that little effort, then run extension cords all over from the generator, rather than trying to power the house wiring with a backwards plug.
tomy2
escape artist
thank you all for clarifying that issue. But what I really need to know is if my subpanel box is adequate for an EG4 inverter to be hooked to it. the panel is type 1 murray 8 breaker panel
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Shouldn't be a problem.
MichaelK
Solar Wizard
LOL...scary.
I just love the 20a #12 conductor plugged into that 15A surge strip…
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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"UL Approved"
I always thought that phrase was a red flag.
I don't find links to additional documents on that page. Can you demonstrate how we get the UL Listing number and look it up to confirm it really is?
Manual Generator Transfer Switch - EZ Generator Switch
EZ Generator Switch is the most affordable and efficient generator connecting manual transfer switch on the market. The switch gives you a simple way to connect any generator to power essential circuits. We are the only company in both the United States & Canada building switches compatible with...
ezgeneratorswitch.com
"EZ Generator Switch Conforms to UL Standard 1640 / Certified to CAN/CSA Std. C22.2 #14."
Ahh. I don't think it is UL listed. Therefore wouldn't be allowed to connect to house wiring, would it?
That little rocker switch doesn't look to me like adequate separation between generator and grid.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Hey! Quit making fun of me!
I do that all the time.
I just assembled this adapter so I can extend split-phase GFCI outlet to neighbor and let him have a couple 20A outlets next time PG&E goes down.
tomy2
escape artist
guess I stumbled into the comics corner
Why the 4 pin cord? Is your neighbor needing turn signals also?
schmism
Solar Addict
That is a REALLY close neighbor.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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The 5' pigtail is just to adapt between species. I've also done the same from 4-pin dryer plug so I can use twist-lock extension cord if desired.
I picked up 5 pieces of 25' generator extension cord from Home Depo. That should reach from my garage to his. If not, the wet-in-use cover will keep the outlet dry where he plugs in his own extension cords. I should wrap the twist-lock connections in tape, or stuff them up inverted cans, if used in wet weather.
What I've done before is use a 250' foot roll of UF with plug and socket on it, for my mountain property. (Be sure to unroll all of it, even if you don't need the full length!)
I have a bunch of 120V outlets, but because I have 120/240V split-phase extension cord I decided to connect a 4-pin outlet to a 20A 120/240V GFCI. That lets me use 240V appliances or 2x 120V in this case. I've got multiple 4-prong 30A dryer outlets with wet-in-use covers now, and decided to set up a 20A GFCI outlet to feed extension cords with proper OCP.
I also have 50A 240V outlets in a few locations for my buzz box. When I needed to weld fence posts near pool area, I plugged in to that electrical box. Welding cables draped through the pool just reached corners of patio.
Holes for back wiring makes the outlets easier to use. Stranded wires like to have loose strands when wrapped around screw, and solid wire doesn't quite slip between screw and plastic, so I got these instead.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Definitely
I made that mistake about 30 years ago.
250' roll of 12/2 wasted, because my extention cord was 10' short. After an 8 hour shift, it became an insulated coil. lol
Hedges
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Ampacity of 12 awg is 30A, but NEC calls for 20A max.
Wires in a bundle have to be derated.
Only break one rule at a time.
Mine became a shorted coil. But only part was ruined; I was left with a shorter extension cord.
UF doesn't last forever in the sun. Prior owner ran a cord along top of fence, and where it was continuously exposed the grey jacket came apart.
Funny thing about NEC and THHN/THWN - large gauge is permissible for the wires you connect to meter and dangle out of a hood for utility to connect.
My permanent exposed wire is in rigid conduit (except for MC cables at the panels.)
I have a run of exposed PVC conduit, which an inspector rejected during a subsequent project. It is now for low-voltage data cable. Expands and shrinks in the sun, buckling and pulling out of couplings. I've since seen gasketed slip-joints for it.
Wires in a bundle have to be derated.
Only break one rule at a time.
Mine became a shorted coil. But only part was ruined; I was left with a shorter extension cord.
UF doesn't last forever in the sun. Prior owner ran a cord along top of fence, and where it was continuously exposed the grey jacket came apart.
Funny thing about NEC and THHN/THWN - large gauge is permissible for the wires you connect to meter and dangle out of a hood for utility to connect.
My permanent exposed wire is in rigid conduit (except for MC cables at the panels.)
I have a run of exposed PVC conduit, which an inspector rejected during a subsequent project. It is now for low-voltage data cable. Expands and shrinks in the sun, buckling and pulling out of couplings. I've since seen gasketed slip-joints for it.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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Yup
I won't use PVC above ground for any length, for that reason. It makes for an unprofessional looking job.
Always learning, and improving.
I meant, what is the 4pin trailer lights wire for? You use it for 240V connections?
timselectric
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I was wondering the same thing.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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I think it was for a remote control. Maybe start and some other features.
I forget if this was Briggs or another brand. It allowed generator to be outside, detached power outlets and control panel elsewhere, probably inside a house under construction.
Home Depot had 5 of these on the clearance shelf so I picked them up. 25' 12/4 twist lock.
Update, it was "Rigid" brand.
:fill(white,1)/files.vipoutlet.com/vipoutlet/2016/09/favicon-64.png)
vipoutlet.com
I was just looking up 10/4 extension cord material, for a proper 30A circuit. That is going for about $2.60/foot these days. Lowes has it on their site, I think in store
My cheapest source for extension cords lately has been Harbor Freight. I got a 100' and a 50' 10/3 cord, each with 3-way outlet. The 50' I cut into 15' and 35'.
www.harborfreight.com
I forget if this was Briggs or another brand. It allowed generator to be outside, detached power outlets and control panel elsewhere, probably inside a house under construction.
Home Depot had 5 of these on the clearance shelf so I picked them up. 25' 12/4 twist lock.
Update, it was "Rigid" brand.
RIDGID RDEC25 25 ft. Generator Extension Cord - VIP Outlet
The RIDGID 25 ft. Extension Cord is designed for use with RIDGID Generator remove able control panels. This cord allows the user to station their control panel anywhere they need it with linking capability of up to 3 cords (or 75 ft.). This is a great accessory for owners of a RIDGID Generator...
vipoutlet.com
I was just looking up 10/4 extension cord material, for a proper 30A circuit. That is going for about $2.60/foot these days. Lowes has it on their site, I think in store
My cheapest source for extension cords lately has been Harbor Freight. I got a 100' and a 50' 10/3 cord, each with 3-way outlet. The 50' I cut into 15' and 35'.
100 ft. x 10/3 Gauge Triple Tap Extension Cord, Yellow
Amazing deals on this 100Ft X 10G Triple Tap Extension Cord at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
Last edited:
EZ Generator Switch
Owner, patent holder
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Look where it says "conforms to" that is the UL standard."UL Approved"
I always thought that phrase was a red flag.
I don't find links to additional documents on that page. Can you demonstrate how we get the UL Listing number and look it up to confirm it really is?
Manual Generator Transfer Switch - EZ Generator Switch
EZ Generator Switch is the most affordable and efficient generator connecting manual transfer switch on the market. The switch gives you a simple way to connect any generator to power essential circuits. We are the only company in both the United States & Canada building switches compatible with...
"EZ Generator Switch Conforms to UL Standard 1640 / Certified to CAN/CSA Std. C22.2 #14."
Ahh. I don't think it is UL listed. Therefore wouldn't be allowed to connect to house wiring, would it?
That little rocker switch doesn't look to me like adequate separation between generator and grid.
there are 16 testing labs in the USA they all use UL NUMBERS. Intertek is the biggest testing lab and that is who represents, inspect us regularly. FYI >>>Buying anything with a label : that label will be exposed and visible for the inspector to see. If any company use's a UL Part that doesn't make it approved. The unit has to be tested assigned its own number as a whole, so always look for a approval label attached. China has been selling in the USA with a single UL part and calling it complete, not even close.
"That little rocker switch doesn't look to me like adequate separation between generator and grid." Actually that rocker is rated at 20 amps and it has the required feature of "break before make" which most people don't even know is a requirement and again it is approved as a whole unit, so each part would need to pass first. Hope this helped you, trust me we know transfer switches completely!
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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"conforms to", I (think) is not the same as certified by NRTL.
The link appears updated, now says, "UL Standard 1640 / Certified to CAN/CSA Std. C22.2 #14."
"inspect us regularly" which is part of the process to maintain listing.
I expected "listed", not "conforms to" which suggests in-house design goals, not the highly stressing tests used for certification.
I was in particular mocking the "UL Approved" I have seen, which I took to be a counterfeit label because AFAIK UL does not "Approve" anything, only "Lists".
You may have a listing document for your product. If so, can you link to that? I think it would have listing numbers for that product which customers could verify and the agency's site.
"Break before make" is certainly what you want.
But if you HyPotted it, what voltage could it hold off?
Consider this Carling breaker:
"Dielectric Strength 1960 VAC, 50/60 Hz for one minute between all electrically isolated terminals, except 2500 VAC for one minute between alarm/aux. switch and main terminals with contacts in open and closed position. F-Series circuit breakers comply with the 8mm spacing & 3750VAC 50/60 Hz dielectric requirements from hazardous voltage to operator accessible surfaces, between adjacent poles and from main circuits to auxiliary circuits per Publications EN 60950 and VDE 0805"
I'm presently using UL listed interlocked QO breakers for my transfer switches. Don't want to risk having grid backfeed my inverters, or vice versa.
The rocker switch you used may in fact be UL listed or equivalent. For some application.
My concern was that it might not meet the requirements to isolate generator from grid. Which may be different from "operator accessible" of the above link. (or not, since grid is accessible to lineman during repairs?)
A complete product intended to serve as generator transfer switch ought to be tested and listed to the requirements of the application.
If your product is compliant, then My Apologies! Please provide documentation that it is listed to UL requirements.
I will admit I do not, and I am not a licensed PE. Just an EE who pokes his nose into things.
"UL Standard 1640" is for portable equipment?
That, I think, would be applicable to the portable generator.
But is your product supposed to be permanently installed in house, hard-wired to the grid? e.g. as a transfer switch to feed furnace from generator vs. grid?
Here's a page from Schneider on transfer switches. No mention of 1640, but some others:
The link appears updated, now says, "UL Standard 1640 / Certified to CAN/CSA Std. C22.2 #14."
"inspect us regularly" which is part of the process to maintain listing.
I expected "listed", not "conforms to" which suggests in-house design goals, not the highly stressing tests used for certification.
I was in particular mocking the "UL Approved" I have seen, which I took to be a counterfeit label because AFAIK UL does not "Approve" anything, only "Lists".
You may have a listing document for your product. If so, can you link to that? I think it would have listing numbers for that product which customers could verify and the agency's site.
"Break before make" is certainly what you want.
But if you HyPotted it, what voltage could it hold off?
Consider this Carling breaker:
"Dielectric Strength 1960 VAC, 50/60 Hz for one minute between all electrically isolated terminals, except 2500 VAC for one minute between alarm/aux. switch and main terminals with contacts in open and closed position. F-Series circuit breakers comply with the 8mm spacing & 3750VAC 50/60 Hz dielectric requirements from hazardous voltage to operator accessible surfaces, between adjacent poles and from main circuits to auxiliary circuits per Publications EN 60950 and VDE 0805"
I'm presently using UL listed interlocked QO breakers for my transfer switches. Don't want to risk having grid backfeed my inverters, or vice versa.
The rocker switch you used may in fact be UL listed or equivalent. For some application.
My concern was that it might not meet the requirements to isolate generator from grid. Which may be different from "operator accessible" of the above link. (or not, since grid is accessible to lineman during repairs?)
A complete product intended to serve as generator transfer switch ought to be tested and listed to the requirements of the application.
If your product is compliant, then My Apologies! Please provide documentation that it is listed to UL requirements.
I will admit I do not, and I am not a licensed PE. Just an EE who pokes his nose into things.
"UL Standard 1640" is for portable equipment?
That, I think, would be applicable to the portable generator.
But is your product supposed to be permanently installed in house, hard-wired to the grid? e.g. as a transfer switch to feed furnace from generator vs. grid?
Here's a page from Schneider on transfer switches. No mention of 1640, but some others:
UL Standards for Manual Transfer Switches
Manual transfer switches are used in backup power systems that serve loads classified as optional by the NEC®.
www.ascopower.com
stienman
Mostly Harmless
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Oh boy. Another snake oil company. I shouldn't have bothered, but since I wasted my time anyway, I might as well share what I found:
1. They tout their product as "patented" but it's not. The patent they reference is a design patent, which doesn't cover the functionality of the "invention", it only covers the design. And what they are currently selling does not match the patent they claim it is patented under - the cheap 15A breaker is located on the top in the patent, vs the front in their current product. If it were a utility patent, that wouldn't matter, but since it's a design patent it means that they are not currently selling a patented product at all. Even if they were, it's a design patent, and is little more than a trademark dressed up in patent clothes.
2. Their address is a post office, and they don't list a PO box number.
3. They mention UL and CAN/CSA on their website, but it is clearly not UL LISTED, which means that they aren't following all the UL rules with their final product. They don't mention "listed", "certified", or "recognized" in conjunction with "UL", which are the specific terms the UL allows for equipment that is known to meet their standards. They are a small fish, and I doubt the UL will sue them for mis-using their trademarks, but they are clearly advertising their product with UL words and phrases which they don't back up.
4. The standard they mention is UL 1640. This is NOT a device that is meant to be used or installed in a home - it's meant for "portable" (ie, temporary/impermanent) power distribution equipment. So even if this product was listed/certified/recognized, it isn't meant for this use. The specific examples given are all temporary, commercial installations under specific NEC rules and include:
a) Carnivals, circuses, fairs, and similar locations in accordance with Article 525 of the NEC;
b) Exhibition halls in accordance with Article 518 of the NEC;
c) Motion picture and television studios and similar locations in accordance with Article 530 of the NEC;
d) Theaters, audience areas of motion-picture and television studios, and similar locations in accordance with Article 520 of the NEC; and
e) Temporary installations at construction sites in accordance with Article 590 of the NEC.
So they've got one thing right - the company is running a carnival show, and selling, at most, $10 worth of cheap components in a $95 sack.
1. They tout their product as "patented" but it's not. The patent they reference is a design patent, which doesn't cover the functionality of the "invention", it only covers the design. And what they are currently selling does not match the patent they claim it is patented under - the cheap 15A breaker is located on the top in the patent, vs the front in their current product. If it were a utility patent, that wouldn't matter, but since it's a design patent it means that they are not currently selling a patented product at all. Even if they were, it's a design patent, and is little more than a trademark dressed up in patent clothes.
2. Their address is a post office, and they don't list a PO box number.
3. They mention UL and CAN/CSA on their website, but it is clearly not UL LISTED, which means that they aren't following all the UL rules with their final product. They don't mention "listed", "certified", or "recognized" in conjunction with "UL", which are the specific terms the UL allows for equipment that is known to meet their standards. They are a small fish, and I doubt the UL will sue them for mis-using their trademarks, but they are clearly advertising their product with UL words and phrases which they don't back up.
4. The standard they mention is UL 1640. This is NOT a device that is meant to be used or installed in a home - it's meant for "portable" (ie, temporary/impermanent) power distribution equipment. So even if this product was listed/certified/recognized, it isn't meant for this use. The specific examples given are all temporary, commercial installations under specific NEC rules and include:
a) Carnivals, circuses, fairs, and similar locations in accordance with Article 525 of the NEC;
b) Exhibition halls in accordance with Article 518 of the NEC;
c) Motion picture and television studios and similar locations in accordance with Article 530 of the NEC;
d) Theaters, audience areas of motion-picture and television studios, and similar locations in accordance with Article 520 of the NEC; and
e) Temporary installations at construction sites in accordance with Article 590 of the NEC.
So they've got one thing right - the company is running a carnival show, and selling, at most, $10 worth of cheap components in a $95 sack.
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