diy solar

diy solar

I don't know what to choose..and my eyeballs are rolling around in my head from research...?

Joined
Jan 4, 2024
Messages
1
Location
Roanoke VA
I want to build my first solar setup for my single-wide mobile home. Every time I think I've found what i should get, I see more things. It's just me and my 3 uppity cats and a pet groundhog. In other words, I'm the only human, and I don't believe my needs are great. Ideally, I would like to be able to tell Appalachian Power Company to stick their "smart" meter and their jacked up rates where the sun don't shine, but I don't know if it's possible. After watching videos and reading a kabillion articles, I'm no closer to deciding what to get, than when I started. I do spend alot of my time in the kitchen canning and preserving and baking. The rest of my time is spent in front of my big screen TV in winter, and out in my garden in summer. I have a heat pump, refrigerator, small chest freezer, a washer and dryer that I don't have to use heavily, because it's just me and my non-clothes wearing cats on the inside.. I am a capable female of undisclosed middle age that can handle ordinary tools. I believe the best thing would be to choose one of Will Prowse's how-to videos and emulate that. I can follow instructions. I can't afford to hire someone, but I'm used to learning diy repairs, etc. I just don't have a clue which of his videos would be the one I should attempt to build. I'm flexible and not chained to any particular idea.. And I will return tomorrow to see if anyone has suggestions based on my vague ramblings. My eyes have had enough staring at a screen today. Thanks, folks and bless you.
 
A lot depends on the funds available.

Solar - relatively cheap
Inverters - cost more
Batteries- cost a lot.

Also, where do you plan to mount it.

Do you want (can do?) grid tie, self use only, a backup system, or fully off grid (most expensive and not worth it if you already have power.

Look back on your power bills - how many kWh per month?

I would focus on:
a 48v AIO and the 48v rack mounted batteries.
A bunch of solar.

Make a plan that includes upgrade steps - the plan and understanding are most important. The above mentioned energy audit is super important to your plan!
 
I recommend you only buy one thing during the first 6 months. Iotawatt or emporia vue.

You need to know your
1. Demand
2. Usage

With those you can size a system and batteries

You can use pvwatts and pvgis to help you
 
I want to build my first solar setup for my single-wide mobile home. Every time I think I've found what i should get, I see more things. It's just me and my 3 uppity cats and a pet groundhog. In other words, I'm the only human, and I don't believe my needs are great. Ideally, I would like to be able to tell Appalachian Power Company to stick their "smart" meter and their jacked up rates where the sun don't shine, but I don't know if it's possible. ...
You might not think your needs are great but what does your electrical bill tell you they are? If it is like most Bills it should have the amount of kilowatt hours you used in the last month. Some will tell you a great deal more. Being as it is Winter, a traditional period where electrical use is high, this January's bill is a great resource.

Now if you just want to get your feet wet into PV production, without trying for a complete home electrical solution, there are many options available. Such as building yourself a small critical loads setup. This would entail putting up a few solar panels and using a SSC/inverter/charger /battery setup to feed a panel or plugs that would be used to power specific loads such as lights and entertainment items. The hardest items to power or those that generate heat from electricity and those that have pumps. Electrical heat uses a lot of watt-hours and pumps during startup require a lot of watts. Understand the difference between watts and watt-hours. For instance a 13w light bulb runs on 13w. In a hours time it will consume 13wh. Your refrigerator might consume 1.5kWH in a 24 hour period but when running only need 70w and when starting needs 600w. All of that has to be designed for when you build a PV setup.
 
Unless you have a LOT of money and space, which it seems that you do not living in a trailer home, living in a low cost off grid system does or at least probably require lots of compromise
Wow. ?
That tone hurt my ears.
that can handle ordinary tools. I believe the best thing would be to choose one of Will Prowse's how-to videos and emulate that. I can follow instructions. I can't afford to hire someone, but I'm used to learning diy repairs, etc.

She stated her situation and it’s fine.
You might not think your needs are great but what does your electrical bill tell you they are? If it is like most Bills it should have the amount of kilowatt hours you used in the last month. Some will tell you a great deal more. Being as it is Winter, a traditional period where electrical use is high, this January's bill is a great resource.
^^^this is good advice.

That’s where to start.

Suggestions from my ~40 years in various aspects of residential construction:
1) before accommodating an electric hot water heater, look into a tankless propane water heater. I like saying “hot water heater.” It makes some people come unglued in such a delightful manner Because that will eliminate a typically problematic heavy use item.
2) since you bake and can a lot, a gas oven also makes sense. Although in your region the hydro power makes electricity quite cheap to use, if you are trying to get offgrid electricity costs from the powerco may not factor.
3) lighting and other convenience loads add up quicker than one might think. Changing out light bulbs to LED and eliminating old inefficient fluorescent and quartz lighting can help reduce demands.

The idea isn’t that you should live in the dark, damp, and cold. Far be it. Rather, those areas mentioned brings the cost of the solar components required to a more reasonable level- though it will still be “expensive.”
 
a lot of good feedback so far. don't be intimidated by it. take your time, but be diligent. your first step should absolutely be an energy audit. start a spreadsheet of everything you use electronically and estimate how much you actually use it. a "killawatt" is cheap and great to measure actual device consumption.

use suncalc.org and pvwatts.nrel.gov to estimate how much power you can actually generate. both are essential tools!

#1 decision to make is where/how to mount the panels. to avoid nearly all the expensive and complicated residential requirements (AFCI, RSD, etc) I would VERY STRONGLY recommend you go with a ground mounted array.

#2 you should decide on what system voltage to go with. depending on your energy audit, 24v seems to be the sweet spot between cost and ease of install. and is generally safer than 48v. however... 48v is more widely available for rack-mounted battery systems.

solar equipment prices are now the lowest they've been in 3+ years and lifep04 batteries are expected to drop even further this year!
 
24v seems to be the sweet spot between cost and ease of install. and is generally safer than 48v. however... 48v is more widely available for rack-mounted battery systems.
Except for mid-small 3000W systems that will never be exposed to scaling up I don’t think 24V makes any sense whatsoever.
I’m imagining where she’s gonna land but that’s just guessing. Nevertheless I doubt a 3000W system will be sufficient.
 
Lots of other good advice here already. My two cents:

If you want to completely ditch the grid, it'll entail an extreme lifestyle adjustment. I've been "off-grid" for over a year now, so I am speaking from experience here.

You'll need:
  • a substantial up-front investment of:
    • money for panels, racking, inverter(s), cabling, batteries
    • time researching (power audit, equipment choices) and building
  • to adapt your day-to-day activities
    • for example, canning and baking only on sunny days--probably no clothes dryer use ever!
    • minimize your usage on those strings of dark, rainy (or snowy!) days--no cooking?
  • to have a backup plan (a generator & its associated maintenance issues?)
  • to get used to always having either too much, or not enough power
In my case, even with a rather large, capable system (over 10kW of PV), we simply aren't able to use our normal oven or clothes dryer in the winter owing to lack on energy production, and in summer, because they over-tax the air conditioning! We do nearly all baking in a countertop oven, and clothes get hung to dry.

Unless you're looking for bragging rights (or are into prepping), and also have plenty of time, money, and perseverance, I'd encourage you to reconsider taking the leap to full off-grid.

As an alternative, maybe build out a smaller system (a "solar generator"?), and gain some experience with the building and power rationing? You could move your fridge and chest freezer onto it.

Either way, you'll need to make lots of choices, like:
  • How much PV? There will never be enough.
  • Ground or roof mount? I'd vote for ground, like @x98myers7 said.
  • How much battery? There will never be enough.
  • Which chemistry? LFP almost seems a no-brainer.
  • Which voltage? I regret using 12V for a fixed install. Am about to transition to 48V.
  • Which manufacturer? I'd look at Schneider or SMA. Possibly EG4?
  • AC or DC coupling? AC coupling capability opens expansion options, but inverter needs to support CA Rule 21/UL1741SA frequency watts. Above-mentioned inverter manufacturers can do it, most can't.
We can try to help guide you along the way...
 
Last edited:
and is generally safer than 48v.
Really? With the resistance of human skin it is almost impossible to get a shock, let alone a dangerous one below about 80 to 90V You'd have to go out of your way to lick your battery pack or apply them to your chest using ECG electrodes to cause a problem, IMHO.

I'd go as far to say 48V is safer than 24V;
the current will be half what it is at 24V for a given power, so less chance of wires and connections overheating.

Edited to add, thanks to other's experiences detailed below you do have to be careful at just 48V especially if hot and sweaty. Ignore my original , now struck-though, comments above.
 
Last edited:
minimize your usage on those strings of dark, rainy (or snowy!) days--no cooking?
These would be unacceptable to me.
It’s good to configure for lesser demand but it would frustrate me to have a system as poorly functioning to the point of not supporting normal daily activities during times that would be otherwise not an emergency.
As an alternative, maybe build out a smaller system (a "solar generator"
I wouldn’t want that either. Never was a Euell Gobbons type. ?
 
Really? With the resistance of human skin it is almost impossible to get a shock, let alone a dangerous one below about 80 to 90V You'd have to go out of your way to lick your battery pack or apply them to your chest using ECG electrodes to cause a problem, IMHO.

I'd go as far to say 48V is safer than 24V; the current will be half what it is at 24V for a given power, so less chance of wires and connections overheating.
It is generally accepted in industry that anything below 30 volts is safe to touch. Above that and you should take some precautions. Some places require full PPE above 50 volts?
 
It is generally accepted in industry that anything below 30 volts is safe to touch. Above that and you should take some precautions. Some places require full PPE above 50 volts?
Osha regs and NEC use 50V.
At 50V in some circumstances you might not be able to let go or otherwise suffer reclocking your heart. Possibly.

FWIW sweating in the sun, I have been pinpricked by 12V before. You don’t think much of it and then it finally starts to sting and you realize you weren’t leaning on a piece of ragged metal or something. Granted it’s only been a coupla times my whole life, but I’m not keen on experiencing that on 48V
 
Oh dear, I've triggered an off-topic diversion ? ?⚡ Must stop digitally heat-testing my LFP connections, then ;)
 
These would be unacceptable to me.
It’s good to configure for lesser demand but it would frustrate me to have a system as poorly functioning to the point of not supporting normal daily activities during times that would be otherwise not an emergency.
Well, it wasn't my intention to fear-monger or exaggerate, but long strings of rainy/cloudy days do happen. There will be days when there simply isn't (hasn't been) enough solar, and you're faced with the choice of running a generator, or cutting back use.


I have a heat pump
Somehow, I glossed over this seemingly minor detail. Unless you have an alternative heating source (gas, propane, or a wood stove), off-grid solar is a non-starter. You get periods of pretty cold weather in your location: you'd need to plan to heavily supplement with a fossil fuel generator. If you still have your mind made up to go off-grid, I'd highly recommend getting a wood stove you can also cook on.


I’m not keen on experiencing that on 48V
Your username gives away your bias. ;)

Seriously, though, I have major regrets with my fixed 12V install. There are obviously pros and cons of 12V and 48V, but my vote is going to be strongly in favor of 48V for anything over ~2000W. It ends up being more efficient and cheaper, since you get 4x the power per amp, and charge controllers tend to be priced by the amp.
 
Last edited:
I agree with a lot of the responses here.

The first step it always to calculate your true energy usage. How many Kilowatt Hours do you use in a typical month, for each month of the year. Use the last 12 months of electric bills to get a good starting point.

Also on your electric bills, does it list many fixed fees? In my case there are a few taxes and a minimum monthly fee of $11 if I use no energy, but if I do use up to $11 worth, it does not change the bill. Ideally, it would be cool to snag those $11 worth, but it's not easy.

In most cases, the grid is by far the cheapest backup power source. About 90% of the time, my 6,800 watts of solar panels produces all the power and energy my house needs. But those other 10% of the time, I have to pull power from the grid. Large surge currents also come from the grid in my setup. But that won't be practical to do unless you get a net energy deal. And that might end up costing you more. I think your best bet would be to do it all behind the meter with zero export. Have solar panels charging up batteries that can run the house loads for 2 days. Most of the time, the batteries will get topped off before sun down, and you run off the batteries until the next morning. But if you use too much power and/or have poor sunlight, the battery will run down to a shut down level and at that point, it will revert you back to grid power. When the sun comes back up, it starts charging the batteries again, and once they are back into a safe level, you go back to running off the batteries.

Do you have land space for a ground mount solar array, or will the panels go on the roof of the mobile home?

Ground mount may not need permits and will have much easier safety rules. Putting them on the roof could be a major problem. You would need to check with your local building codes. Solar panels mounted on top of a living space have the most strict requirements. If you need to tilt them up, you will also need to worry about wind loading. Screwing them into a sheet metal roof may not be strong enough.

And lastly, I do want to comment on the "safety" of a 48 volt system. I have worked on equipment with up to 480 volt 3 phase feeds. So when I started working on my "48 volt" battery bank, I didn't even think about it, it's just batteries, right?

I know they were capable of hundreds of amps, so I was still very careful with tools, and during the build, I only ever touched one terminal at a time, so it went very smooth with no shocks. But after the system was up and running well over a year, my BMS unit shut down the battery bank. I was still able to connect to the bluetooth and it was reporting 2 cell groups at zero volts. But when I measured everything with my meter, it all seemed fine. It turned out one of the balance sense wires had failed. So when it tried to measure the voltage of the cell on either side of the lead, it got a zero reading.

To make the story a bit shorter, I had to trace and repair the failed lead, in 110F (43C) heat. I was wearing a short sleeve shirt and was quite sweaty. Like a fool, I didn't put on my insulating gloves. The battery was disconnected, so my kneeling on the ground while touching one balance lead at a time was not an issue, but while I was holding one lead on the meter, my fore arm brushed the bare tab of another cell in the string.

I am still not sure how many cells I was across, but it was probably in the 30 to 40 volt range (full battery can reach 58 volts). From my fingers to my for arm, my muscle spasmed hard and my whole arm did a hard tingle, similar to the battery on your tongue, multiplied 5 times over. I was able to drop the meter lead and pull my arm back from the other cell pretty fast, but my entire arm ached for a few hours. The sensation was worse than the last time I remember hitting 120 volts AC. A 48 volt battery system is no joke. It may be less likely to make a decent connection, but if you do, it can be bad news. Since then, I always wear my "low voltage" rubber gloves if I am working near the cells and terminals. I do have a real pair of Class "0" gloves, but they are just plain impossible to use for delicate work as they are rated to 1,000 Volts. The ones I use for 120 volt home wiring and now on my battery system are not officially rated as insulating gloves, but they are fine to about 200 volts. They are a little thinner and lighter than class "00" 500 volt gloves.
 
Oh dear, I've triggered an off-topic diversion ? ?⚡ Must stop digitally heat-testing my LFP connections, then ;)
Well, maybe just don't say the 48 volt is safer than 24 volt? I understand why you think it is safer but inexperienced might get the wrong idea.

24 volt is considered touch safe almost everywhere. 50 volts is not, and resting voltage of a 48 volt system is above 50 volts.
 
Back
Top