Invertor problem

[Heliman65]

I've biult my solar setup as shown in my attached photo.
All has been running well, until 3hrs into having my new 8w soil heater cable with thermostat plugged into my RS1500 Novopal 12v/240v inverter...
I noticed the soil heater thermostat display was blank, so I checked the inverter and noticed there was no power light on...
I switched inverter off and depowered it, I waited the 15minute recommended for auto shut down...
No joy with that... I was supplied with 4 30amp blade fuses so I removed and opened the inverter and checked the blade fuses and all were ok but I replaced all 6 blade fuses.. then put the cover back on and tried it again with fingers crossed...
To my disappointment it still has no power light or 240v output...

Any ideas guys...?

 

[Craig]

Ok let's do baby steps.
1 what are the battery volts.
2. Is the victron battery protect working. Does current pass through it.
3. What is your battery?

 

[Heliman65]

Thanks for your prompt reply.

2 x 12v 140ah deep cycle run in parallel.
Victron battery protect is working
12v leisure/marine 140ah deep cycle.

Hope this helps

 

[Craig]

What are battery volts now

 

[Craig]

Check volts on both sides of battery protect

 

[Justin Laureltec]

@Heliman65, this may or may not be the cause of the problem, but please immediately remove your Battery Protect from this setup - it is expressly forbidden to use the Victron Battery Protect to directly interrupt the main DC supply line of an inverter; it is furthermore expressly forbidden to connect a Battery Protect in any manner which will cause reverse current to flow through it, which it currently is, as your SCC is also connected to it. Please see the user manual here for acceptable applications of the Battery Protect; in the meantime, immediately undo this configuration, as you run a very real and serious risk of catastrophic component failure as you have it connected.

EDIT: I'll also add that those breakers are known junk, I'd recommend swapping those out if you continue having issues after you remove the Battery Protect from the wiring... but I'll lay pretty decent odds that removing the Battery Protect will get you back up and running for now.

 

[Heliman65]

@Heliman65, this may or may not be the cause of the problem, but please immediately remove your Battery Protect from this setup - it is expressly forbidden to use the Victron Battery Protect to directly interrupt the main DC supply line of an inverter; it is furthermore expressly forbidden to connect a Battery Protect in any manner which will cause reverse current to flow through it, which it currently is, as your SCC is also connected to it. Please see the user manual here for acceptable applications of the Battery Protect; in the meantime, immediately undo this configuration, as you run a very real and serious risk of catastrophic component failure as you have it connected.

EDIT: I'll also add that those breakers are known junk, I'd recommend swapping those out if you continue having issues after you remove the Battery Protect from the wiring... but I'll lay pretty decent odds that removing the Battery Protect will get you back up and running for now.

Hi Justin,
As advised all disconnected thanks for you advice and guidance...
It's definitely the inverter that is faulty... it Spoke to supplier and said to return the inverter...

My setup is to run lighting and power for our remote horse stables... so as you can understand fire and or any catastrophic failures will end in total devastation for my wife and 5 horses...
Thank you again for your help and guidance

I did post a thread with the question and photos of my setup and asked if I've forgotten anything and as you can see on that thread I was told it looks good.. so as a green horn took that as all was fine...

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Hi Justin,
As advised all disconnected thanks for you advice and guidance...
It's definitely the inverter that is faulty... it Spoke to supplier and said to return the inverter...

My setup is to run lighting and power for our remote horse stables... so as you can understand fire and or any catastrophic failures will end in total devastation for my wife and 5 horses...
Thank you again for your help and guidance

I did post a thread with the question and photos of my setup and asked if I've forgotten anything and as you can see on that thread I was told it looks good.. so as a green horn took that as all was fine...

Oh man... Well, my apologies for (though now I have to go look) not getting to that thread on your initial question...
Victron's Battery Protect is, hands down, the single most commonly misunderstood and misused component they manufacture, so don't feel bad about it... We caught it in time. In the configuration you had it, where reverse current was running through it, the Battery Protect can get so hot as to melt and, though we haven't had reports of actual open flame anywhere, any time a component is melting down there is obviously a danger of fire, so I'm glad we caught it before that point.
Does your inverter have a remote on/off pinout connection? If so, you can use the Battery Protect to trigger the inverter on/off; the main DC positive cannot be interrupted by the BP, but the BP can be used as a remote trigger.
That being said, don't use that particular BP for anything anymore; once even a few amps of reverse current runs through it, it's damaged. I'd reach out to the Victron distributor from whom you purchased it to see about getting a replacement; depending on when you purchased it, you should be able to get a warranty replacement because Victron's early documentation wasn't as clear about the danger of improper connection as the online manual I pointed to, so Victron has been very forgiving with models purchased before they updated their documentation.
In the meantime, connect your solar charge controller directly to the battery (that mustn't run through a BP) and, though this is an ongoing debate on this and many other forums, I'd strongly consider replacing those breakers with genuine Bussman Series 285 surface mount breakers. The breakers you have are Chinese copies of the Bussman Series 285 and they're known to overheat and fail to perform to spec - ie, they tend to break too soon or -worse- not break soon enough, which poses its own danger.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes the copies perform to spec, but sometimes they don't, and for any real application I posit that it's critical to be certain that your circuit protection devices have known, reliable specifications.

 

[dashdrum]

Total side question: Where did you get the red covered 2-pole busbar in the center of your photo? Is it even called a busbar? I've been searching RV and marine sites for one to replace a broken part on my RV, but no luck - not sure what to search for. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[kernel]

@Heliman65, this may or may not be the cause of the problem, but please immediately remove your Battery Protect from this setup - it is expressly forbidden to use the Victron Battery Protect to directly interrupt the main DC supply line of an inverter; it is furthermore expressly forbidden to connect a Battery Protect in any manner which will cause reverse current to flow through it, which it currently is, as your SCC is also connected to it. Please see the user manual here for acceptable applications of the Battery Protect; in the meantime, immediately undo this configuration, as you run a very real and serious risk of catastrophic component failure as you have it connected.

EDIT: I'll also add that those breakers are known junk, I'd recommend swapping those out if you continue having issues after you remove the Battery Protect from the wiring... but I'll lay pretty decent odds that removing the Battery Protect will get you back up and running for now.

Thank you Justin. Someone has got to stop the madness of putting cheap vehicle accessory breaker in these systems! That and 3kW systems built from 100W modules, and trying to run a farm on a goal zero "generator"

 

[kernel]

Hi Justin,
As advised all disconnected thanks for you advice and guidance...
It's definitely the inverter that is faulty... it Spoke to supplier and said to return the inverter...

My setup is to run lighting and power for our remote horse stables... so as you can understand fire and or any catastrophic failures will end in total devastation for my wife and 5 horses...
Thank you again for your help and guidance

I did post a thread with the question and photos of my setup and asked if I've forgotten anything and as you can see on that thread I was told it looks good.. so as a green horn took that as all was fine...

It does look "good". Well laid out and neat, decent wire managment from the middle down, excluding battery cables and fins unsecured conductors on that dc distribution fuse block up top.

Thing is, and i understand everyone has a budget..... nearly everytime a proper high current dc breaker or fuse block is suggested the reply is

" my goodness im not paying 12$, 30$, and no way 50$ for the most important component in the entire, couple thousand dollar system"

 

[Heliman65]

It does look "good". Well laid out and neat, decent wire managment from the middle down, excluding battery cables and fins unsecured conductors on that dc distribution fuse block up top.

Thing is, and i understand everyone has a budget..... nearly everytime a proper high current dc breaker or fuse block is suggested the reply is

" my goodness im not paying 12$, 30$, and no way 50$ for the most important component in the entire, couple thousand dollar system"

For us there is no monetary cost in the safety of our 5 horses and all the buildings that have taken me 3 years to build from the ground up and due to the location of the stables.. for sure it would all be burnt to the ground before anyone had noticed there was a problem..

I bought the breakers after seeing them on a few of Will's YouTube videos... I would rather buy a genuine part over fakes/cheap copies all day long.. in the real world "Amazon" should be stamping out the sale of cheap copies of these safety critical items...
Little rant over... ?

Would anybody recommend a good genuine 40amp and 150amp circuit breakers...

I/we really do appreciate all guidance from you guys.. Hats off to your knowledge...

 

[John Frum]

I/we really do appreciate all guidance from you guys.. Hats off to your knowledge...

285-Series - Blue Sea Systems

Thermal circuit breakers provides medium duty circuit protection for 25 to 150 Amp loads when switching and circuit protection are both required.

www.bluesea.com

 

[Heliman65]

Total side question: Where did you get the red covered 2-pole busbar in the center of your photo? Is it even called a busbar? I've been searching RV and marine sites for one to replace a broken part on my RV, but no luck - not sure what to search for. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

That is a 40amp auto reset breaker.. purchased from Amazon... hope this is of some help.

RKURCK 12V 40 Amps Circuit Breaker Automatic Reset with Protective Red Boot Cover (40A)

 

[JoeHam]

I just purchased the Bussman 285 series (good for higher dc volts) today in a 100 amp version here:

Amazon.com: Bussmann CB285-100 Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers, 100 Amps (1 per pack): Automotive

Buy Bussmann CB285-100 Surface-Mount Circuit Breakers, 100 Amps (1 per pack): Circuit Breaker - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

It cost less than $2 more than the Chinese knockoff death trap version. I’m frugal as all get out but c’mon. Trying to save less than $2 on a critical safety item like this?

This should not be a debatable issue on any forum IMHO.