Is Enphase good/worth cost for microinverters for small system? Why don't many people do smaller systems?

[zanydroid]

My problem with companies like Hoymiles or NEP is that I can't seem to find anywhere to buy the parts. As a DiY guy, I don't want to be always funneled through "distributers" or middle men, and for future that doesn't seem like a good idea...maybe I'm wrong?

Where can I just buy hoymiles products without jumping through hoops?

Sure it is good that Enphase is distributed everywhere including some supply houses. With hoymiles it's more like a knowing a guy who knows a guy model, or driving in person somewhere.

Microinverters are distributed failure model. You'll lose one at a time, which for HM means probably 4 ports. Are you still ahead/behind if you replaced those with IQ8 on a new branch circuit? That won't hurt anything except your time to run new trunk cable. Factor that into the model.

My personal model for handling the distribution issue is that I'll be able to hustle to find a new supply because I know how to use forums to ask. So the failure modes are:

• Discontinued (sure, Enphase has done things like make IQ8 variants in two generation back form factor to help with replacement of systems installed in 2010 without rerunning new trunk cable, Hoymiles is too new for us to know what they'll do)
• Hoymiles dies as a company (they are publicly listed and at least currently have a big war chest)
• Hoymiles gets kicked out of US market because of geopolitics

Enphase is geopolitically insulated and there will be a pretty high probability someone will pickup their business at liquidation in the worst case.

Anyway I'm fine with the failure modes I've identified, given the up front discount I get and the distributed failure model. With OpenDTU being an thing now even if DTU fails and Hoymiles is exiled from the US you can just use the github project and buy the commodity radio chip needed to make it work.

DM sent with some info on where I buy them since I'm not sure what the promotion rules are on the forum.

 

[Quattrohead]

I would like to know where you can get them from, either here or by private message.
I need to figure out if I am going to use solar edge optimizers with the 10K unit and potentially lose 3,000 watts of production or go with RSD devices.

 

[jlrosine]

Regarding enphase and clipping with the IQ8+ and 400w panels....

I was looking at a local solar distributer, I can get IQ8+ for $90/inverter new. At this price it almost seems the initial lower cost might be worth it for me to have some clipping?

Unless my math is wrong, Buying something like the IQ8A would probably end up paying itself off with higher continuous watts after about 28 years. In that case, if I can get the IQ8+ for $90, it almost seems worth it? It's about $1,250 more to go with the IQ8M.

Guessing hoymiles or NEP would still be cheaper or maybe the same price as getting these cheaper IQ8+, I'd just have the distribution weirdness.

 

[thewilliam]

Do you need the extra power? If you can get the microinverters at a discount maybe just get a couple more micros/panels. Clipping isn't nessarily bad. I wish I had a bit more power.

 

[zanydroid]

Also note that the microinverter vs more panels tradeoff is seasonal / time related (if that matters, depends on net metering terms)

The clipping likely happens when there's already a ton of power on the grid, so getting rid of clipping is not necessarily super impactful if you have TOU-based dollar credit.

While if you throw money at solar panels you increase the mass across the whole graph (outside of clipping region), which means every season and more hours of the day. Producing more hours of the day could mean smaller battery. Producing more in winter might be helpful if you are attempting to off grid as much as possible all seasons (or, more realistically, maybe you can achieve self-sufficiency with daily production in the 9 non-winter months)

Granted it is possible to clip in winter due to temperature and maybe array design (ie did you add some stuff pointed in a winter optimized way), so there are a number of assumptions embedded in what I said above that one needs to adjust for individual situations

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Regarding enphase and clipping with the IQ8+ and 400w panels....

I was looking at a local solar distributer, I can get IQ8+ for $90/inverter new. At this price it almost seems the initial lower cost might be worth it for me to have some clipping?

Unless my math is wrong, Buying something like the IQ8A would probably end up paying itself off with higher continuous watts after about 28 years. In that case, if I can get the IQ8+ for $90, it almost seems worth it? It's about $1,250 more to go with the IQ8M.

Guessing hoymiles or NEP would still be cheaper or maybe the same price as getting these cheaper IQ8+, I'd just have the distribution weirdness.

Please check out this thread. I took out my (10) IQ8+ and replaced them with (3) Hoymiles HMS-2000-4T-NA. Even though these are 480W per panel microinverters, I put them on 400W panels a few months back. Now, I routinely see all 12 of my 400W panels generating 500W peaks, and since I have more powerful inverters, I get every drop of it. No clipping at all. Those big fluffy clouds we get in the summer reflect the sunlight providing irradiance GREATER than 1000W/sq. meter! The STC rating of the solar panel is not the most it can produce. Previously I was limited by the IQ8's to 3kW AC. Now It outputs 4.3kW typical, and 5.3kW AC peaks. The cost difference at the Microinverter Store is negligible. It comes to around $117 per panel. Much cheaper than IQ8H and 100W more powerful.