Ok. Just don't wait around and lose it. Out of nowhere, this February, with no warning, my coop switched from net metering to wholesale buyback. Anyone already on was grandfathered for 5 years. I don't have solar yet so I lost out
Is Enphase good/worth cost for microinverters for small system? Why don't many people do smaller systems?
- Thread starter jlrosine
- Start date
I read a message from our COOP that said they are not required to grandfather if they change the rules, however the state might tell them the need to grandfather people like you said, because that's why people buy solar in the first place.
Should be interesting, now I just need to figure out which system I want to roll with.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I believe when people say Net Metering it is 1:1 conversion to dollar denominated credits with the TOU rate at the time of generation, minus some minor taxes. I believe it's supposed to be the retail generation + T&D (transmission and distribution), but I don't know if it's universal. (EDIT: OK, this is like a "people from states states with net metering + TOU " thing)
But there's also special things that are POCO/PUC (state) specific, like maximum export amount and a payback that is much higher than wholesale but still much lower than retail.
I took a look at your link to the Co-op web page, and it is actually not converted to dollar credits, we do that in California because electricity has different costs at different times. The bank in their example is just straight kWh, agnostic of when it was generated other than your 12 month reset. I believe you have demand charges to sort of compensate for not having TOU.
Ideally you would direct your questions to some kind of forum that has a lot of homeowners from your area. It's pretty easy to miss some verbiage and miscalculate by a lot. You could ask for an example bill, in case the Co-op example is outdated or incomplete. Though note that these solar bills are notoriously difficult to understand. I think it took me 5 tries to figure out what each line item means & how it fits together, across a couple of months of asking questions.
FWIW, with a small utility, managing their pain is a good way to delay punative solar policies. A minimal battery that you charge from (solar) ~10:30AM~2:00PM and discharge when PV stops to cover your loads (or as much of them as you can) until bedtime goes a long way to that end. If the battery is sized at about 20% of your peak month average daily production and your PV is sized for annual net-zero you can cut your peak export kW in half and likely do the same with your peak import kW. Document that on your application or discussions with them.
My utility (corporate) doesn't have a way to fully appreciate that benefit, and they have already imposed punative rate plans, but if there are just a couple service planners checking applications you stand a much better chance.
Why do you think that? Installers install lots of systems in the range you are considering and even smaller.
In my area, anything under ~6kW (PV) is a tough sell unless it is new construction. Installers will do it, but they build in nearly an extra $1/W to cover overhead (on a base of $3.5-4/W).
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
In my area, there’s a non profit (sunworks) that specializes in doing only small systems (the threshold is systems that save the customer at most $100/month, in NEM2 terms), because regular installers just say no to those.
They are not sure yet what the new qualification threshold will be in the post NEM2 world (IE no net metering). They also need to sort out their story on ESS, since they have never included that before, and ESS is necessary post NEM2…
They are not sure yet what the new qualification threshold will be in the post NEM2 world (IE no net metering). They also need to sort out their story on ESS, since they have never included that before, and ESS is necessary post NEM2…
Sure the unit cost maybe a bit higher but the total cost is lower. New homes in California put in as small as 1kW systems to meet the state solar mandate. Plenty of people don't want large solar systems for roof space/aesthetics, financial ROI and/or affordability reasons.
Mike 134
Solar Enthusiast
It looks like you have 1 to 1 metering just like I do in Northern Illinois (ComEd) . I felt no point totally wasting my money on batteries when the utility would be my battery. Now if it changes down the road I'll revisit it then.
just my 2 cents
just my 2 cents
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I provided an example in Northern California (Bay Area and Central Coast) where Sunwork.org needs to exist because regular installers don't want to do small systems.
New homes are a different beast. The builders need to hire a solar installer to do it, and the installers know it. I'm sure they grease everyone's hands and eventually it costs $5/Wdc for the new home buyer. The new home buyer is literally a captive market.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Sunwork.org also serves non-profits because they often don't have tax liabilities where they can take advantage of ITC. Yet the regular installers are also not suddenly going to cut their rates by 30% (or whatever ITC is for a non-human entity) out of the goodness of their heart, they're pretty much addicted to operating with that subsidy.
I have seen new homes being much cheaper than retrofit, but regulatory capture might make it a different game in California.
The roofer installs the rails, the electrician does all the pipe and wire work, the GC's laborers get the panels in place, and an installer spends an hour doing final connections and startup of the inverter. None of the work is high skill, but using a solar installer for the last step (on 5-6 houses in a day) makes the warranty cleaner.
Retrofitting a small system is a completely different matter.
I wish there was someone like them in Hawaii.
I was working with someone who had a foundation to support nonprofits with sustainability projects, but the tax structure killed the idea. I think his strategy was to fund 30% of the cost, and arrange financing that would be able to realize the tax credits and therefore subsidize another 30%. There was some kind of IRS conflict in the process though IIRC.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
I’ve talked to some small scale builders about solar woes, and it can be a shitshow here… the handful of folks hire a solar installer to do everything from bottom up. Minimum license you need is solar specific which covers solar plus baby’s first electrical and roofing stuff (if bidding a solar project).
I don’t actually have real numbers on how much they mark things up, was just going by regular markup at each layer… the fact that solar panels and batteries are mandatory I’m sure distorts things.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Sunwork makes the model work in part with free volunteer labor, so the overhead only needs to cover the employees that do design and foreman stuff, and the only for profit layers are the equipment distributor and upstream in the value chain.
They also kind of aggressively simplify the projects to avoid overrun risk. Plenty of projects turned down due to weird stuff about existing conditions.
Not to drag this thread out, but wonder what recommendations you all have on these questions.
1: I can buy a QCELL Peak Duo 400w panel or a QCELL Peak Duo 400w bifacial for about the same cost. Should I just get the bifacial or would it be a disadvantage for a roof mount?
2: I've read countless threads and watched videos on clipping vs. trying to avoid clipping on panels. I could buy some IQ8+ inverters for very cheap locally (new), about $90, OR I can pay retail for the IQ8M, IQ8A or IQ8H. I was actually considering the H because those microinverters really are the only ones that show continuous power high enough to even get close to the 400w panels, however I'm sure the panels would only max out in perfect conditions for a few hours per day. Anyone with experience on 400w panels and the IQ8+ vs. the better inverters?
3: What does everyone think of the Pegasus rack system? I like the way it seems to go together, but seems like a lot of sites recommend ironridge...just wondered if it mattered.
1: I can buy a QCELL Peak Duo 400w panel or a QCELL Peak Duo 400w bifacial for about the same cost. Should I just get the bifacial or would it be a disadvantage for a roof mount?
2: I've read countless threads and watched videos on clipping vs. trying to avoid clipping on panels. I could buy some IQ8+ inverters for very cheap locally (new), about $90, OR I can pay retail for the IQ8M, IQ8A or IQ8H. I was actually considering the H because those microinverters really are the only ones that show continuous power high enough to even get close to the 400w panels, however I'm sure the panels would only max out in perfect conditions for a few hours per day. Anyone with experience on 400w panels and the IQ8+ vs. the better inverters?
3: What does everyone think of the Pegasus rack system? I like the way it seems to go together, but seems like a lot of sites recommend ironridge...just wondered if it mattered.
fromport
Solar Addict
I overpanel the micro inverters to a maximum of 125%
This the max power panels I use on the different IQ inverters:
IQ8 306 Watt
IQ8+ 375 Watt
IQ8M 412 Watt
IQ8A 457 Watt
IQ8H 480 Watt
I recently helped install 420 Watt panels and I advised to use IQ8A although IQ8M probably would have been enough.
The extra price was not too much difference.
thewilliam
New Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2022
- Messages
- 34
I have IQ7+'s (290W AC) with 400 watt panels. They clipped between noon and 4 pm in May and June. My ratio is 1.38 DC:AC which I think is too high. The IQ7A (366W AC) would have been a 1.09 DC:AC ratio. 1.09 is probably too low but I think the incremental cost over the + would have been worth it. 1.2 is probably a sweet spot.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
To shill for Hoymiles again, which will let you get to 1.06 for cheaper.
HM series has been on the market for similar time to IQ8, yet there's already an open source replacement for the controller hardware (IE there is software on github to initialize a radio chip and talk to the inverters), an open source zero export, and a device emulator that the open source developers can use. That's direct evidence that the platform is more open than IQ8, I don't think anybody on this forum has been able to get much control over IQ8s.
I don't have IQ8 so obviously I don't really search as hard for cool stuff for it, I welcome whoever can share a link to provide a counterpoint.
HM series has been on the market for similar time to IQ8, yet there's already an open source replacement for the controller hardware (IE there is software on github to initialize a radio chip and talk to the inverters), an open source zero export, and a device emulator that the open source developers can use. That's direct evidence that the platform is more open than IQ8, I don't think anybody on this forum has been able to get much control over IQ8s.
I don't have IQ8 so obviously I don't really search as hard for cool stuff for it, I welcome whoever can share a link to provide a counterpoint.
My problem with companies like Hoymiles or NEP is that I can't seem to find anywhere to buy the parts. As a DiY guy, I don't want to be always funneled through "distributers" or middle men, and for future that doesn't seem like a good idea...maybe I'm wrong?
Where can I just buy hoymiles products without jumping through hoops?